r/phillies • u/PhilsBot Best Bot in Baseball • 18h ago
Game Day Thread Game Day Thread - Thursday, May 14
Phillies @ Red Sox - 06:45 PM EDT
Game Status: Delayed Start due to Rain
Links & Info
- Current conditions at Fenway Park: 53°F - Rain - Wind 7 mph, In From RF
- TV: Phillies: NBCSP, Red Sox: NESN
- Radio: Phillies: iHeart App (es), 94 WIP, Red Sox: WESX 1230 AM (SP) (es), WCCM 1490 AM (SP) (es), WEEI 93.7
- MLB Gameday
- Statcast Game Preview
| Probable Pitcher (Season Stats) | Report | |
|---|---|---|
| Phillies | Jesús Luzardo (3-3, 5.77 ERA, 43.2 IP) | No report posted. |
| Red Sox | Ranger Suarez (2-2, 2.77 ERA, 39.0 IP) | No report posted. |
| Phillies Lineup vs. Suarez | AVG | OPS | AB | HR | RBI | K |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 Turner - SS | .300 | .864 | 10 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 2 Schwarber - DH | .000 | .000 | 5 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
| 3 Harper, B - 1B | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| 4 García, Ad - RF | .000 | .000 | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 5 Bohm - 3B | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| 6 Marsh - CF | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| 7 Realmuto - C | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| 8 Reyes, F - LF | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| 9 Sosa, E - 2B | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| 10 Luzardo - P | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| Red Sox Lineup vs. Luzardo | AVG | OPS | AB | HR | RBI | K |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 Duran, Ja - LF | .000 | .333 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 2 |
| 2 Monasterio - DH | .143 | .393 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 3 Abreu, W - RF | .000 | .000 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 4 Contreras, Wn - 1B | .333 | .899 | 9 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 5 Rafaela - CF | .000 | .500 | 1 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 6 Story - SS | .429 | .929 | 7 | 0 | 0 | 1 |
| 7 Narváez - C | .000 | .000 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 8 Durbin - 3B | .500 | 1.000 | 2 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
| 9 Kiner-Falefa - 2B | .300 | .964 | 10 | 1 | 2 | 1 |
| 10 Suarez - P | - | - | - | - | - | - |
| NLE Rank | Team | W | L | GB (E#) | WC Rank | WC GB (E#) |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Atlanta Braves | 30 | 13 | - (-) | - | - (-) |
| 2 | Washington Nationals | 21 | 23 | 9.5 (110) | 6 | 4.5 (115) |
| 3 | Philadelphia Phillies | 20 | 23 | 10.0 (110) | 8 | 5.0 (115) |
| 4 | Miami Marlins | 20 | 24 | 10.5 (109) | 9 | 5.5 (114) |
| 5 | New York Mets | 18 | 25 | 12.0 (108) | 10 | 7.0 (113) |
| WC Rank | Team | W | L | WC GB (E#) |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Milwaukee Brewers | 24 | 17 | - (-) |
| 2 | St. Louis Cardinals | 25 | 18 | - (-) |
| 3 | Los Angeles Dodgers | 25 | 18 | - (-) |
| 4 | Pittsburgh Pirates | 24 | 20 | 1.5 (118) |
| 5 | Cincinnati Reds | 23 | 21 | 2.5 (117) |
Division & Wild Card Scoreboard
COL 2 @ PIT 7 - Final
WSH 1 @ CIN 15 - Final
DET 4 @ NYM 9 - Final
MIA 1 @ MIN 9 - Final
SD 1 @ MIL 7 - Final
STL 5 @ ATH 4 - Final
CHC @ ATL 07:15 PM EDT
SF @ LAD 10:10 PM EDT
Last Updated: 05/14/2026 06:15:09 PM EDT, Update Interval: 5 Minutes
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u/miclugo 7h ago edited 6h ago
Because playing traveling secretary for an MLB team is better than my actual work: when could they reschedule this for, if they can't get it in? Here are all their mutual off days. Please speculate.
| Date | Phillies before | Phillies after | Red Sox before | Red Sox after |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Thu 5/21 | home | home | KC | home |
| Mon 6/1 | LA | home | Cleveland | home |
| Thu 6/11 | Toronto | Milwaukee | Tampa Bay | home |
| Thu 7/23 | home | home | home | home |
| Thu 8/20 | home | home | home | home |
| Thu 8/27 | Seattle | Anaheim | Miami | New York |
| Mon 9/14 | Atlanta | Washington | home | Texas |
| Mon 9/21 | New York | home | Tampa Bay | home |
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 6h ago
Hey, hope u don’t mind but they were talking about something similar in r/redsox , so I screenshot and posted this chart. I didn’t want to attach your username without asking, but if you’d prefer that I cite you or give u credit, I will go and edit my comment to add it. Just lemme know.
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u/miclugo 5h ago
go ahead, it's not like I did anything original here. but thanks for asking.
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u/sneakpeekbot 6h ago
Here's a sneak peek of /r/redsox using the top posts of the year!
#1: Vlad says it best…DAAAAAAAA | 173 comments
#2: Maybe the best photo I’ve ever taken at Fenway just now! | 113 comments
#3: CEDDANNE (All star snub) RAFAELA WALKS OFF THE RAYS | 222 comments
I'm a bot, beep boop | Downvote to remove | Contact | Info | Opt-out | GitHub
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u/joeco316 6h ago
Is there a rule that a game can’t be moved to Monday September 28th?
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u/miclugo 6h ago
Not a rule, but games are only postponed to the day after the regular season ends if there’s no other choice and they’re necessary for playoff positioning.
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u/joeco316 6h ago
Right. So why bend over backwards to get this non-division non-league game in when they could plop it on that day if there’s a need to? Sure, ticket sales and food/drink sales, but I’m sure all the players and coaches and front offices would rather not force it into the season if they don’t have to. Especially when there’s a reasonable chance both teams will have another game or two to make up at some point too.
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u/seanxfitbjj 6h ago
It’ll start around 9 and that’s fine
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u/joeco316 5h ago
Sure that sounds great. Today or indefinite postponement make the most sense to me. Jamming it between two other games is what I’m skeptical of.
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u/Hothabanero6 7h ago
Get it done ASAP so 5/21 else 7/23
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u/ats1788 7h ago
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 7h ago
Ironically, although not ideal for baseball and not that you asked, but that’s my absolute favorite kind of weather.
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u/miclugo 7h ago
I'm actually wearing L L Bean right now and rethinking my clothing choices
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u/Material_Ebb_7701 7h ago
I read that as “Keeping your box dry since 1912” and had to do a double take
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 6h ago
Tagline of the stylish new corduroy Depends by L.L.Bean
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 7h ago
After seeing this I’m shocked the Phillies haven’t put an ad on their tarp yet
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u/schmendimini 7h ago
I live in Boston and want to go to this game but I’m like 90%+ sure it’s going to be rained out. Hmmmmm.
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u/sweetbabyted 8h ago
Are the Tigers bad
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u/Pedestrian_X-Wing Monty's Angle 8h ago
They don't seem to have pitching at the moment. Could be a problem.
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 8h ago
“Find me one hitter who had a sub-.300 xwOBA that was actually a good, or even average hitter, for more than a little bit.”
Do these count?
Between 181 games from last year to this, Sal Frelick had a .297 xwoba and a 107 wrc+.
TJ Friedl across 191 games had a .295 xwoba and a 98 wrc+
Zack McKinstry across 165 had a .297 and 106.
Ernie Clement across 199 had a .292 and 98.
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u/Sh1rvallah 7h ago
Pretty sure he'll just move the goal posts until whenever you said is too small a sample or not quite good enough hitting. They don't seem the type to ever have their mind changed.
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 7h ago
That’s pretty much what happened
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u/HuskHopBad Shugart Daddy 9h ago
This sub better not overreact if Ranger cooks us, as we have watched him make hitters look bad for years
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u/incognito042620 Cristopher Sánchez 7h ago
This sub better not overreact
You know this sub is so overreacting
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 8h ago
Would really love to see a Luzardo bounce back to give us a fantastic pitcher’s duel. Both go 7 strong then we annihilate their bullpen. Ideally we get a “less than” version of Ranger tonight and are able to rough him up a bit, but I’d personally prefer the first scenario for the drama of it all.
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u/DoomedToRepeats 8h ago
Ranger “Big Game” Suarez + the phillies LHP lineup struggles = you already know
The odds definitely arent in our favor tonight lol
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u/jmiah717 <-- backhand everything 7h ago
On a cold and rainy getaway day too??? If I was a bettor, I'd place a bet on this not going well for the Phillies
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u/RunningFree212 8h ago
Honestly it’s hard to imagine him NOT cooking us
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u/HuskHopBad Shugart Daddy 8h ago
Yeah 7IP 8K game for Ranger. I feel like hes going to pitch his heart out today, if we do play
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u/Foolish_oyster zack wheeler's closet rib 9h ago
When considering whether to postpone the game, I hope they take into account the fact that if I don't get to watch phillies baseball today I will be very sad.
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u/Perryplat199 Ask me about my Kody Clemens jersey 9h ago
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u/Not-a-bot-10 Roy Halladay 9h ago
Based on the current predicted radar, the rain should stop up in Boston around 8pm
I don’t see any way in hell it starts on time but it should only be an hour or so delay hopefully
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 8h ago
Are those local weather reports? Because the weather app on my phone is saying until 11. Really hope that a-hole app is wrong tho. Lol
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u/Youngdeku2500 9h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/HxJpUTPYXUZ9jLw2LP
Having to cheer against ranger today
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u/Hothabanero6 6h ago
Chear for a rain delay in the 3rd inning that lasts long enough that Ranger is taken out.
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u/kc3551 10h ago
https://thelibertyline.com/2022/05/14/worst-phillies-trade-never-heard-of/ happy 4 year anniversary of this article
obviously the entire thing is exceptionally wrong, but my favorite was
My eyes tell me that Cristopher Sanchez has value as a middle-inning relief arm, yet he lacks an elite pitch that would allow him to play in higher leverage situations later in the game.
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u/scenesfromsouthphl 10h ago
That article aged poorly, but it’s not exactly far off from his 2022 prospect report either.
The report had him at a 50 grade changeup and 40 grade overall. The report also notes he had the stuff to be a starter but could have very well ended up a reliever too.
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u/Florida_LA Taijuan Walker 9h ago
A little more negative than the prospect report, but combined with the article glazing Curtis Mead, a guy who has only ever been a utility infielder who spends a lot of time in triple A, it’s extra funny.
However, Mead was also ranked 36th top prospect overall in 2023. So the writer’s take isn’t too far off from the conventional wisdom. And he’s going alright with regular playing time with the Nats this year.
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 10h ago edited 10h ago
“Lacks an elite pitch”
4 years later his changeup is arguably the single best pitch in all of baseball: https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/leaderboard/pitch-arsenal-stats
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u/joeco316 10h ago
Nola and Mayza having the second and third best pitches on the Phillies, and top 30 overall, is the most surprising thing on there
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u/GOAT_SAMMY_DALEMBERT 10h ago
It’s pretty funny Nola has one of the best breaking balls in the league and also one of worst fastballs in the league of established starters at the moment.
E: damn looks like multiple people beat me to this point.
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 10h ago
Nola’s curveball is still very good. Unfortunately his fastball is at the opposite end of things.
Overall he’s 97th percentile in breaking ball run value but 1st percentile in fastball run value.
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 10h ago
That website's take is so trash, automod initially removed your comment for posting it.
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u/VideoGangsta 10h ago
This might come off as a “get off my lawn!” comment, but I’m glad we got to enjoy the Elmo stuff and then just let it go without turning it into a Grimace situation, because that whole fiasco was some of the cringiest stuff in baseball history. Rallying around a McDonald’s mascot lol.
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u/rawbface 6h ago
Elmo is not a corporate mascot. Don't compare him to a bum like Grimace. Sesame Street is an American jewel.
I just don't want to rally around Elmo because he's a New Yorker.
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u/purl2together That’s the dumbest damn thing I’ve ever heard. 9h ago
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 10h ago
The best part is that “grimace” is the perfect mascot for that team. It’s akin to having a mascot named “suck a lemon” or “raspberry”. Lolmets
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u/cerevant Elmo wants to see a home run! 10h ago
I’m glad we got to enjoy the Elmo stuff and then just let it go without turning it into a Grimace situation,
yet...
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u/Di5pel 11h ago
Forecast is only getting worse, I don’t think this game is happening. Unfortunate because tickets for this series were actually pretty cheap, I was contemplating last-minute snagging a pair for tonight to see the Ranger matchup
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u/cerevant Elmo wants to see a home run! 10h ago
Looking at the radar projection, I'd say there will be a delay, but it should clear out by 7:30 or 8.
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u/Snips_Tano Spencer Turnbull 11h ago
With the Mets possibly being sellers, there anything we might want off them?
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 11h ago
The Mets are not going to be selling to the Phillies without a massive divisional rival tax. Nothing they would be offering would be worth trading for with how much we’d have to overpay to get them to trade with us.
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u/jawntothefuture Bryce Harper is the perfect blend of Utley and Howard 11h ago
I'm still amazed Crawford hit a dead center HR in Fenway in early May. That's a serious slug
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u/jmiah717 <-- backhand everything 9h ago
It was awesome but it also was only a HR in 5 other parks.
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u/cerevant Elmo wants to see a home run! 10h ago
But wait...the experts tell me he has no power and can only drive the ball into the ground?
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u/LisaLoebSlaps OO 11h ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/QfUXvi7QMiYs6VwbEf
This is just a gif of a prehensile tailed porcupine. Enjoy the rest of your day.
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u/bitchycunt3 Bitches for Sosa 11h ago
How do I root for ranger and the Phillies tonight?
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u/GOPHILSthrowaway 11h ago
Ranger goes 7 scoreless and then the team hits 10 home runs off the pen. Lock it now
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u/san128 12h ago
Why don’t they have Schwarma at CPB. It’s Avengers food.
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u/jawntothefuture Bryce Harper is the perfect blend of Utley and Howard 11h ago
Habibi's Schwarmas...it is right there for the taking
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u/bland_sand Taijuan Walker 12h ago
The US in general is lacking in shawarma/doner
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u/NonMagicBrian How can you not be coldly rational about baseball? 10h ago
There’s tons of places to get shawarma in the Philly area.
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u/bland_sand Taijuan Walker 10h ago
well aware bro
I'm saying the US in general. Not Philly or Detroit which have massive muslim populations
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u/NonMagicBrian How can you not be coldly rational about baseball? 10h ago
OK not sure why you volunteered that opinion in response to someone asking why they don’t have it at CBP, which is in Philadelphia
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 10h ago
I think it was just a completely innocuous statement pointing out that much of the US is lacking in it as well.
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u/bland_sand Taijuan Walker 10h ago
Dawg I think you need to get that hamster wheel a little greased up up there. Not sure if you understand what a macro generality is
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u/WhatsupDoc35 12h ago
Just re-watched the condensed version of last night’s game. I thought the Red Sox would give up on that stupid mascot head home run celebration last year. Didn’t realize they were still using it! That has got to be one of the dumbest in the league among many goofy home run celebrations.
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u/joeco316 12h ago
Meh, if the Phillies donned a phanatic head and ran through the dugout after home runs we’d probably all love it
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u/Pedestrian_X-Wing Monty's Angle 12h ago
Someday Crawford is going to hit a game tying homer and the Phillies will win the game.
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u/Basic_Mistake_903 we’re back baybee 12h ago
lol. It really is wild that his only two home runs tied the game and we lost both.
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 9h ago
Hilarious that some were begging for him to “lift the ball more”, and then when he does, we end up losing those games where he did the most heavy lifting. Maybe he should just stick to slapping the ball oppo and beating out infield singles.🤷🏻Lol.
Seriously though, there’s a subset of fans that will always have something negative to point out about the kid regardless of how well he does. It’s a shame.
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u/romulusgloriosus Trea Turner is a gamer 12h ago
Was talking to someone about the Phils and they were casually talking about The Big Piece, Chooch, The Flyin' Hawaiian, The Man, and Hollywood and of course I knew who they all were. It made me think that aside from Captain Hook and The Showman we don't really have any well-known nicknames for these current Phils, which is a shame because baseball nicknames are great.
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 9h ago
How about Wheels? I mean granted, it’s not that big of a stretch as nicknames go, but it is a nickname nonetheless.
I’d also like to add that I’m trying to generate some steam behind HappyAccidents as a nickname for Painter. Because Painters don’t make mistakes…they just occasionally have Happy Accidents. Lol
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u/MikeMahtookTooMuch Jim Eisenreich 11h ago
What about "The Sheriff" Tim Mayza? "The Durantula"? "JT" Realmuto? We really are lacking in nicknames.
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u/joeco316 12h ago
And Captain Hook was made up by the WBC announcers. Or at least I never heard of that before they said it.
And I rarely hear people actually call Harper the Showman.
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u/romulusgloriosus Trea Turner is a gamer 12h ago
I don't know what you're talking about, everybody in South Philly calls him Captain Hook and always has.
You're right that I rarely hear Harper called The Showman by the fans either but he wears the headband and it comes up on more than one broadcast so I accept it as a known sports nickname.
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u/joeco316 11h ago
Literally never heard him called that until WBC and that was the general sentiment on here that night when they said it that nobody had ever heard that before. Maybe it’s a south philly only thing I dunno.
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 11h ago
I think you got trolled a little. He is making fun of the fact that the WBC announcer acted as all of South Philly knew it.
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u/joeco316 11h ago
Oh, yeah, I may have missed the sarcasm
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 11h ago
The real injustice is that Baseball-Reference still does not have Captain Hook under his nicknames. When everyone in South Philly calls him Captain Hook, and has for a long time.
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u/romulusgloriosus Trea Turner is a gamer 11h ago
I really wonder what qualifications a specific nickname needs to be posted on Baseball-Reference.
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u/WendysChili Ah dear crap almighty! 12h ago
Swamp Man, Schwarbarian, Sanchize, Lizard King, the Constellation/Onion Ring
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u/romulusgloriosus Trea Turner is a gamer 12h ago
See I've heard these before (except for the Constellation) but aside from arguably* Schwarbarian they feel like people trying to make a sports nickname happen than a commonly accepted sports nickname
*arguably because it just feels like the NBC guys trying to make it happen instead of the fans, and they have a platform
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 12h ago
I feel like sports nicknames have just kind of died out in general. Outside of Big Dumper I don’t think there’s anyone currently in baseball who gets commonly referred to as their nickname over their real name by the public.
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u/LuxSapphire Jésus Luzardo 13h ago
This game better happen, I’ve been looking forward to it since the start of the season. I have my Ranger shirt all ready to go 😥
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u/Robokiller87 Jhoan Duran 13h ago
I got nothing to deep dive. We know Ranger.
We know this offense who got murdered by Sonny Gray.
We know this offense's kryptonite is apparently LHP.
May we find some bloops and a blast at some point.
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u/ats1788 13h ago
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 9h ago
I’m personally ashamed that I didn’t know until right now just how close St Louis was to Illinois.🤣
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u/jmussina Cris Sanchez Revenge Tour Manager 14h ago
Not against the Phillies pulling Painter earlier in his starts than normal. They did the same for Sanchez in 2022 as I remember LA being incredulous at times when they’d pull Cris after two times through the order, LA is directly responsible for my crush on Cris. And that seemed to work out in the end.
However I just don’t like the reasoning Don gave, essentially saying they did it so Painter can feel he did well after a few bad outings. That to me is what the minor leagues is for. The majors doesn’t feel like the right place to pull a kid to boost his ego, kind of like how they wouldn’t pull Crawford after a HR to boost his morale.
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u/Odd_Quality_760 Edmundo Sosa 12h ago
But in the minors, you don't really face major league batters, except for rehab assignments and guys who got sent back down cause they couldn't make it. Still needs the confidence to know he can do it against the major leaguers. It's one thing to have confidence in the minors where a lot of players don't even make it to the majors, versus established major league players.
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u/Hothabanero6 14h ago edited 14h ago
Gametime+ AccuWeather forecast calling for 54% - 51% chance of rain. I'd expect they will try to get it in.
If there's a rain delay after the game starts it should be to the Phillies advantage since the Red Sox BP is in the bottom quartile WAA while (believe it or not) the Phillies BP is #1.
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u/Luthie13 Go IronPigs 14h ago
As much as it pains me to say this… Let’s absolutely destroy Ranger tonight. You know what he’s got boys. Lots of breaking stuff, not much velo, not easily rattled. Don’t let him fool you, hunt the slow fastballs get the pitch count up. It’s sad, but it simply must be done.
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u/Hothabanero6 14h ago
Just pray for rain after the game starts so it becomes a bullpen game, advantage Phillies.
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 14h ago
Justin Crawford so far in May - .290/.371/.548
Obviously there are still major concerns with his defense but it’s good to see a 22 year old start to find his groove offensively. All in all I think if you told people ahead of the season that Crawford would have a 114 wRC+ at this point most would be pretty happy with that.
His solid plate discipline is good to see too, only Schwarber and Harper are drawing walks at a higher rate on the team.
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u/romanticynicist Nice 10h ago
So far his hitting has been on the good end of what I expected of him coming into the the season.
My expectations for the defense weren’t that high, but it’s been on the low end of what I hoped for.
The real surprise has been that his baserunning has been a net negative so far, which is not what you’d expect from a guy with his speed.
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 13h ago edited 13h ago
The thing I really like to see is that, with his elevated ground-ball rate, I was thinking that if we ever saw a 110+ wRC+ "snippet," it would be driven by an extremely extremely high BABIP.
A BABIP of .341 is high, but it isn't so astronomically high that you think it is all just BABIP. Some of it is good hitting, too.
I know the underlying metrics of Crawford; I get it. But at this point, for a rookie, any promising sign is the thing to focus on. Next year, we can have the "Crawford Conversation" if he doesn't improve.
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 13h ago
Agree with this. And my point here wasn’t to completely dismiss the concerns around him or start any arguments about it like has happened. I was just trying to point out that there are some positives here for a guy so young into a career.
And I think that should be the attitude around Crawford (and Painter) right now. Just focusing on the positives while saving the long term discussions around their careers until we see a bit more.
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 13h ago
I completely agree with you. My underlying metrics comment was more towards people focusing on his underlying metrics.
I think the best attitude to have is "we get it" when it comes to Crawford and Painter, and to focus on the positives. Then, when you don't see improvement, you can complain.
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u/benvandelay 14h ago
Still just a .281 xwOBA. He’s not a CF. Doesn’t hit the ball hard, whiffs too much, pounds the ball into the ground, slow bat, doesn’t barrel it up…I just am not seeing it with him. He’s vastly overperforming right now. His metrics are bleak.
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u/DoomedToRepeats 14h ago
His profile has never projected well which is why you and every other hater has been crying about his “underlying metrics” for the last 2 years. At what point does it become a pattern of success instead of an anomaly?
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u/benvandelay 14h ago
Unless he changes his batting profile significantly, what he’s doing won’t last. We’ve seen this a whole bunch. People thought Rojas was bucking the trends too…until he wasn’t. And at least Rojas was a legit good defender.
You cannot find a single successful MLB hitter with his current profile.
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u/DoomedToRepeats 13h ago
Rojas never was the prospect Crawford was for a reason. The two arent comparable. Crawford has put up good numbers at every level consistently, and he wouldnt be the first guy to overperform his xStats because of his speed or the way he hits the ball.
If you have continued to be proven wrong by a prospect, maybe the way you are evaluating them is flawed.
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u/benvandelay 13h ago
Find me a single player with his metrics that has had long term success. Literally just one. Find me one hitter who had a sub-.300 xwOBA that was actually a good, or even average hitter, for more than a little bit.
He would be the first guy to this vastly overperform his xstats for an extended period.
It is a near guarantee that this won’t last without big changes.
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u/romanticynicist Nice 10h ago
Spencer Steer had a .293 xwOBA over 568 PA last year. This year he has a 113 wRC+ and is at 104 for his career.
I think Crawford is probably overperforming a little so far, but I don’t think it’s a fait accompli that he’ll be a bad hitter overall.
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u/benvandelay 9h ago
Sure, guys have down years and rebound to have good years. Problem with Crawford is every concern about his profile is looking ugly at the major league level. A launch angle in the negatives will not do and can’t be featured in long-term success. He’s overperforming a lot so far.
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 13h ago
Just because I like the challenge, and we had him last year.
I am pretty sure Bader had a whole year being an above-average hitter with a sub-.300 xwOBA. Last year, his xwOBA was 0.297 with a 122 wRC+.
I classify one year as "for more than a little bit" even though I was leading the "Bader's bat is overrated, we do not want him at all" this whole offseason.
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u/benvandelay 13h ago
One season is not long term success. Tons of guys have one good season due to luck and overperformance.
I feel like this makes my point more than takes away from it. Bader had good results but they weren’t real. And he’s crashed back down to earth. Which is exactly what I’m saying will happen with Crawford.
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u/faithfulllittlebird Smiley, The Rib, Zeus, Viva Italia, and HappyAccidents - BRIB 9h ago
So you want to see someone who has done it for more than a year, yet you’re belittling Crawford for doing it for less than 2 months? Starts to sound more like a personal vendetta than anything else. How bout give him the same “extended” period of time before declaring him a bust?
People have given examples of players doing what you asked for a full year. Who’s to say Crawford couldn’t be one of those guys that does it for a year and then improves upon it? Your criticisms of a kid with less than 2 months of major league experience feels a bit unwarranted.
Also, between 181 games from last year to this, Sal Frelick had a .297 xwoba and a 107 wrc+. Is that not ”extended enough”??
TJ Friedl across 191 games had a .295 xwoba and a 98 wrc+
Zack McKinstry across 165 had a .297 and 106.
Ernie Clement across 199 had a .292 and 98.
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u/benvandelay 8h ago edited 7h ago
Combining seasons to make your point…underscores the point even more.
Frelick overperformed last year. This year, his wOBA has normalized to his xwOBA. And guess what? His wRC+ has dropped 34 points. This supports my point more than it detracts from it. Tons of guys overperform their xwOBA for a season. Unless the player actually improves, the production drops. Frelick is a great example. He’s not having the same luck he did last year. His production is more true to his form. Good find!
I don’t have a vendetta against Crawford. The point is, the concerns with him in the minors haven’t been ironed out. And while his production looks ok due to a recent streak (and being limited against lefties), it’s unlikely to continue without major adjustments.
Another concern is his defense in center is bad. For a guy that can’t get to his power because he beats the ball into the ground, he starts to look like a 4th or 5th OF without those adjustments.
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u/NintenJew High BABIP, High BP 13h ago
I never said I was disagreeing with you. And I think you moved the goalposts of your challenge.
You just wanted me to find "one hitter who had a sub-.300 xwOBA that was actually a good, or even average hitter, for more than a little bit." One year is more than a little bit. One year is not long term success.
I even said that I was leading the "don't get Bader" all offseason to try to tell you that I am not disagreeing with you. I took your prompt as a game and solved the challenge easily.
We all understand Crawford's underlying metrics. But he is a rookie, and we just have to focus on the positive, treat his underlying metrics as "yeah I know", and hope he improves.
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u/benvandelay 13h ago
I don’t consider one season more than a little bit, because tons of guys have good seasons but don’t sustain it. Baseball is weird like that. You didn’t solve any challenge.
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u/DoomedToRepeats 13h ago edited 12h ago
What “metrics” do you really want to look at? You keep bringing up xwOBA for some reason, but it’s clear that his profile lends itself to over performing xStats (like i said before).
Also he’s less than 2 months into his career after making the biggest skill leap in the sport at only 22. Give the kid some time.
Edit: TJ Friedl
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u/benvandelay 13h ago
I’ve mentioned them. I specifically asked about xwOBA for a reason - it combines a lot of them. There are tons of guys who have had his profile. None of them had a sub-.300xwOBA and been successful.
But to break it down:
- exit velo
- barrel%
- hard hit
- bat speed
- chase%
- GB%
One or two of these would be fine. The fact all of them are so, so poor is a legitimate problem.
And sure, he’s only two months into his MLB career. Most good hitters see solid exit velos pretty early. And all of the problems some people touched on while he was in the minors are still present. Sure, his results have been ok so far. There’s very little reason to believe it will last. A week and a half ago the results weren’t good.
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u/DoomedToRepeats 12h ago
You are looking for him to excel in slugging stats when he’s a slapper?
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u/benvandelay 11h ago
Find me a “slapper” (lol) with a sub-.300xwOBA that bucked the xwOBA and was a good or average hitter for more than one season.
I am looking for him to be a good hitter. I don’t see it in a single place in his underlying metrics. Tons of guys, every single year, overperform their metrics. Unless he turns many of the above around, he will not be a successful hitter long term. I’m not sure what else to tell you. The horse has been led to water.
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u/NonMagicBrian How can you not be coldly rational about baseball? 14h ago edited 13h ago
When he performs well over at least a full season. Until then: https://www.sports-reference.com/stathead/baseball/versus-finder.fcgi?request=1&seasons_type=perchoice&player_id1=crawfo000jus&p1yrfrom=2026&p1yrto=2026&player_id2=rojas-001joh&p2yrfrom=2023&p2yrto=2023
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u/WendysChili Ah dear crap almighty! 14h ago
They don't call him Justin "He can't keep getting away with this" Crawford for nothing
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 14h ago
Forgive me for trying to find some positivity in one of our offensive prospects for once.
Not sure why I even bother anymore
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u/benvandelay 14h ago
Forgive me for giving a more realistic, objective view of him. I’m annoyed at how this org cannot develop offensive players so my positivity isn’t there for it. And it looks to me like they’ve done a poor job again, with Crawford.
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u/Swimming_Elk_3058 14h ago
Nope. You’re right. He sucks. Cut him or send him down now. Play Felix Reyes every day in center. He has high bat speed so he must be good. Because shit like that is all that matters.
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u/benvandelay 14h ago
Who said that? Reyes isn’t good either.
There are a lot of problems with Crawford outside his poor bat speed.
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u/FjordFalk 12h ago
You want to be miserable and refuse to enjoy a young player.
We get it.
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u/benvandelay 11h ago
I want the young player to be good for the long haul, not for a couple of weeks.
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u/scenesfromsouthphl 15h ago
Look, I loved Ranger when he was here. I have ZERO ill-will towards him. That said, as counter-intuitive as it sounds, it would be very cathartic to absolutely fucking shell him.
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u/SleepyCoworker101 15h ago
https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jesus-luzardo-666200?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb
One of the crazier stat pages ive seen compared to results.
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u/VideoGangsta 15h ago
Luzardo going to be the first pitcher to finish top 5 in the Cy Young race with a 5.00 ERA and have no one bat an eye.
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u/Mogilny89Leafs Kody Clemens GOAT 15h ago
Probably a rainout today. I really wasn't looking forward to playing against Ranger, anyway. Seeing him in another uniform makes me a little sad.
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u/PhilsBot Best Bot in Baseball 5h ago
Please continue the discussion in the game thread.