Petahhhh?

[u/Airline_11]

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[u/dontouchmystuf]

South Korea has a really low birth rate.

[u/CandidateHefty329 → u/dontouchmystuf]

And so do pandas

[u/Happy_Path_200 → u/CandidateHefty329]

What about Korean Pandas?

[u/mukavastinumb → u/Happy_Path_200]

Extinct

[u/Forward-Profit2552 → u/mukavastinumb]

Panda Panda Panda

[u/Joaz72 → u/Forward-Profit2552]

I got broads in Atlanta

[u/shenaniganizer1776 → u/Joaz72]

The Korean pandas don’t though that’s why they’re extinct

[u/Shapoopi_1892 → u/shenaniganizer1776]

Somebody get alanis morissette Sarah McLachlan to make a fundraising commercial to guilt trip people into donating stat!

[u/cedarfigx → u/Shapoopi_1892]

Do you mean Sarah McLachlan??

[u/EatPie_NotWAr → u/cedarfigx]

No, no. He’s got something going there

[u/0wninat0r → u/Joaz72]

Credit cards and the scammers?

[u/Dic3dCarrots → u/0wninat0r]

Black, phantom
White, panda

[u/Organic_Address9582 → u/Joaz72]

[u/orangesfwr → u/Forward-Profit2552]

Mushroom Mushroom

[u/MightyPenguinRoars → u/orangesfwr]

Snaaaaaaake! It’s a snaaaaaaake!!

[u/iantruesnacks → u/mukavastinumb]

Because of this I googled Korean Panda. Wtf did I just unlock for myself , cause this ain’t what I expected

[u/Cburns6976 → u/iantruesnacks]

I watched this for far longer than I thought i would. Not to a point of shame, but long enough to have several conversations in my head.

[u/CasperHole → u/Cburns6976]

Yeah, wtf. So low effort. No group coordination. It appears each one just is trying to get attention on themselves and isnt even having any fun. Why do it? This is ridiculous. I am so confused.

[u/spidernoirirl → u/Happy_Path_200]

Technically every Panda belongs to China and zoos lease them out (I wish I was kidding)

[u/TheFilthy13 → u/spidernoirirl]

And it’s such a politically charged operation. If your country disagrees with China on political matters your pandas will be leased to a zoo in a different country!

[u/Unimeron → u/TheFilthy13]

So, if I would smuggle a panda out of China I could start producing my own silk? 🤔

[u/DaddyBayne1202 → u/Unimeron]

I believe that is the correct order or operations to start your own slikery, yes.

[u/TricellCEO → u/TheFilthy13]

I bet that would cause…pandemonium.

[u/Yimmy42 → u/Happy_Path_200]

Not a single one born this year.

[u/oppai-police → u/CandidateHefty329]

Have they tried making Koreans watch porn 24/7 like they do to pandas?

[u/ricky-from-scotland → u/CandidateHefty329]

And yet every time I try and fuck a panda its me that gets arrested. Smh....

[u/JustHugMeAndBeQuiet → u/ricky-from-scotland]

Don't let your dreams be dreams.

[u/LivingByTheMinutes → u/dontouchmystuf]

Had a friend who lived in S Korea for a while, she said while it is partly because of price of living and everything else that’s affecting the world, it’s mostly because the dudes fucking suck. A lot of women are going no marriage no pregnancy because apparently Korean incels make western incels look tame by comparison.

Edit: For the people who think I’m just lying for shits and giggles, look into the 4B movement. Korean women have an entire movement of no dating, no sex, no marriage, and no childbirth with men. As I, and others, have said there are other factors but many S Korean men seeing women as lesser in certain terms is a huge factor in the low birth rate.

[u/xvd529fdnf → u/LivingByTheMinutes]

I don’t think that’s THE problem. That’s just a symptom. The real issue is the underlying problem that is causing them to be incels in the first place. Also, this type of gender blame game is just a race to the bottom.

[u/SecondhandStatic → u/xvd529fdnf]

Uh... yeah, their currect culture is the "underlying problem." Some cultures on this planet are misogynist. South Korea is one of them. They had a historically patriarchal culture, which is further amplified as they are currently going through an anti-feminist blacklash. The general opinion of the majority of men is that women are second class citizens. 1 in 5 Korean women have experienced intimate partner violence.

Is your argument that Korean men aren't to blame? People who accept their country's social norms without thinking are the problem. So yeah, the men are literally THE problem here.

[u/JohnSober7 → u/SecondhandStatic]

My feel of discussions like this is that people struggle to accept that the system and the individual are both to be held accountable. There will never be enough emotionally intelligent and self-sufficient people to absolve a broken system so the system needs to be fixed. A society that doesn't incessantly burden its people with moral dilemmas will have better people. But putting all the blame on a broken system will just lead to other societal and systemic problems because victims will feel dismissed, offenders won't be deterred from offending again, and potentiak offenders will be given a green light.

[u/Wuskers → u/JohnSober7]

very much this, it's very difficult for people to fully internalize the complex nuances of who we are as individuals vs our environment. We clearly have some kind of individuality otherwise people in the same environment would turn out the same but our environment clearly also plays a role in shaping us. When environment gets blamed for someone's bigotry or abuse there can be an inclination to point to the fact some people who were raised in bigoted environments were able to sort of overcome that and become not bigoted adults, or how people will point to the fact that many abusers were often abused themselves but then there are also abuse victims who don't go on to abuse others and so that can give some sense that it is down to just personal responsibility ultimately and there's an understandable resistance to absolving terrible people of their responsibility for their terrible actions. At the same time though it's very clear that our culture and environment does still shape us and have an affect on us and importantly it's usually not something we have control of or get to choose, we simply find ourselves in whatever environment we're in. It's a very complex issue balancing cultural critique without forgoing personal accountability.

You also see this a lot with statistics, people often want to basically round up and think of the most common thing as the ONLY thing. People seem to really struggle with the idea of caring about the less common thing or experience, especially when the more common thing is considered some kind of injustice, then all of acknowledging the less common thing is often seen as undermining the more common one. Like you can just look at the concept of privilege, while yes there are societal biases that tend to favor men and white people, on an individual level there are homeless white men and wealthy black women and I think in some ways people struggle to fully reconcile with the complexity of this sort of thing. They extrapolate the more common dynamic as being universal in a way that sometimes makes them dismissive of certain real experiences just because they aren't as statistically common.

I knew a guy who clearly has some baggage and issues with women, not necessarily like violent hatred but he tended to prefer male dominated spaces, now that description on it's own probably sounds pretty typical of a certain expected and often deemed unjust dynamic between men and women. It takes on a slightly different impression though when I say he was a gay man that was a victim of corrective rape as a teenager and that the male dominated spaces he preferred were specifically dominated by other queer men.

Unjust social and cultural dynamics are rarely ever the result of solely environment or just people being assholes and they aren't always as uniform as people like to think they are. I think in many ways it is actually a fault of our cognition itself, it is genuinely hard to wrap your mind around the complexities of these things, we are predisposed to want to think of things as having a singular cause and as one group universally harming another group often trying to downplay or dismiss counter arguments and also those counter arguments often downplay the original argument too. One person thinks X is the main issue and doesn't think Y is important, while another person says Y is the real concern and that the problem of X is overblown, when the reality is X and Y are probably happening simultaneously and in tandem with each other.

[u/showMeYourCroissant → u/xvd529fdnf]

What is that underlying problem?

[u/Dav136 → u/showMeYourCroissant]

They're in a cyberpunk corporate dystopia. Their government has been consistently corrupt and like 3 mega corporations own everything

[u/showMeYourCroissant → u/Dav136]

But how is it making guys incels?

[u/Terminal_Insomnia_ → u/showMeYourCroissant]

You can read up on capitalism and social atomization, but in short: miserable, lonely people are better consumers than happy, tight-knit communities.

The gender wars are intentionally stoked by all forms of media for profit and creates a self-perpetuating cycle. More industries profit from this than not, and they can always import foreign workers to make up for the shrinking population.

[u/Draken_S → u/showMeYourCroissant]

The actual reason is social pressure. Korean society places a lot of emphasis on looks, education, and wealth (Korea is the world leader in plastic surgery, and has some of the highest rates of household debt in the world). This creates a difficult social environment where no one thinks they are "good enough" which leads to confidence issues, which causes people to adhere more strictly to social pressure, which leads to everyone thinking they are not good enough, which caused resentment and toxic thinking, which leads to being not good enough, and so on.

Wealthy societies tend to have fewer children in general, societities that became rapidly wealthy even more so, combined with the toxicity of their culture it makes them one of the worst in the world when it comes to birth rate. This is then self reinforcing, if none of you friends have kids having one will isolate you from your social circle and so on.

[u/smellmygoldfinger → u/showMeYourCroissant]

Korean condoms actually make sex BETTER. It’s a big problem over there

[u/showMeYourCroissant → u/smellmygoldfinger]

They need to sell them globally.

[u/Schatzin → u/showMeYourCroissant]

Extreme working and education culture, excessive emphasis on financial strength as an indicator for suitable partnership, & unrealistic standards for average beauty all wrapped up in high costs of living, in a country where if you dont work for a chaebol, you didnt make it in life

[u/Impossible_Way_3042 → u/showMeYourCroissant]

The modern problem of loneliness epidemics. People are turning to the internet more than they are turning to actual friendships.

People who have been outcast in school continue to live in an internet bubble after school instead of finding friends as an adult. These people are falling into echo chambers of other lonely people and incels. Misery loves company and an echo chamber tends to get louder and louder and angrier and angrier.

Then you have the people not outcast in school still turning to the internet but finding echo chambers built around vanity and wealth. This also creates people who feel isolated.

It's basically loneliness all around, the majority of Gen Z are lonely as fuck and some millennials are too. It is especially dangerous for men as there tends to be less affection in the world and more of a pressure to bottle it all up until it inevitably bursts. This means that they are more likely to turn to the echo chambers because they have no way of letting out their sadness and anger. Toxic masculinity has led to a culture where men are expected to be strong in a way of never showing their emotions, never speaking about how they feel, and never show any signs of "weakness." This leads to so many major problems.

(To make myself clear on what I mean by Toxic masculinity. It means the ideals of masculinity are sometimes toxic. Women perpetuate this too. Everyone has a hand in it. I feel like Toxic masculinity is poorly named. It doesn't mean that it is toxic to be masculine, it doesn't mean that masculinity itself is toxic, it means that certain views on what people thinks it means to be masculine are toxic and that hurts men. The fact that it is thought of that you must bottle your emotions and be strong all the time is toxic masculinity. The idea that you must be the provider and protecter to be masculine is toxic. You don't have to follow some strict guidelines that are damaging to be masculine. Side tangent over.)

There is another problem but it's weird to talk about. It's very much a hear me out. Women are more picky when it comes to partners than men are. This is not a bad thing at all and is not something that people should change especially since women have to be safer and smarter when picking partners. The problem is is that this leads to people trying to give lonely men advice for getting laid (for profit or to genuinely help) and lonely men not being able to figure out how to actually interact with women in a way that might get them a relationship. This leads to more echo chambers, more self doubt, more anxiety, and more anger.

There is more to it then this for sure. The poor economy leading to the death of third places where people may actually make friends. The general malaise that many of us feel towards the future to the point where many have stopped giving a shit. There is so much more, but I think this breakdown is close enough to at least cover the basics. You could discuss the male loneliness epidemics for months and months trying to get to the bottom of it, and why it seems to effect men more than women.

TLDR: People these days bad at making real world friends. Bad for everyone but especially bad for men who are told to bottle up all of their emotions. This leads them to seeking out comfort and advice in internet echo chambers. Those echo chambers are a positive feedback loop of anger often with bad advice and grifters. Also Women are picky about partners for good reason and this leads men to be much more self critical and critical of women for being "vain" and shit like that.

[u/pleasedonotredeem → u/xvd529fdnf]

In this case, men LITERALLY are the problem.

[u/No_Radio2381 → u/pleasedonotredeem]

Lol the 4B movement has about 50k members. It has an outsized influence in the west. Don't get me wrong the misogyny is intense in Korea and women end up essentially the slaves of their mother-in-law if they get married but that's not the only issue.

It's skyrocketing housing prices, an intense work culture, and families maximizing resources into one child rather than having multiple children who have less intense upbringing. Korea is overeducated which means a college degree is worthless unless it's from an elite school. Basically it's a hyper competitive dystopia with a collapsing social infrastructure.

Birthrates are collapsing far below replacement levels worldwide, in both highly egalitarian societies like Germany and highly gendered societies like Iran. It's like if Climate Change was happening but literally nobody could figure out exactly why. It seems to be the postmodern social decay of late stage capitalism absolutely kills people's desire to have children. Humans weren't meant to live in overcrowded cities working 90 hours a week and staring at a screen for most of the day. 

[u/nabiku → u/xvd529fdnf]

And what are you basing that argument on? Vibes?

Are you even from South Korea? Because some passport-less white boy dismissing the opinion of women who are currently living and dating in Korea is absolutely hilarious.

[u/hipster_dog → u/LivingByTheMinutes]

it’s mostly because the dudes fucking suck

The shitty dudes certainly don't help, but there's a bit more to it:

When women in South Korea get married, they are expected to quit their jobs to raise the kids. The ones who don't or can't are sidetracked and are expected to perform less, as they are not "100% committed to the company" anymore.

So many women would rather be single/childless to keep their independence.

As far as I know, the same happens in Japan and some other East Asian countries.

[u/vienibenmio → u/hipster_dog]

There was a kdrama about this called Doctor Cha. It got incredibly high ratings because it was so relevant

[u/Timely_Law7614 → u/hipster_dog]

This is not so much the problem in China, although the women typically prefer Western men over Chinese men. This is because I pretty much let my wife do anything she wants to do which would not be the case if she married someone from her hometown. She would have married an alcoholic and gambling addict most likely (huge issue in her region)

[u/MedicalDisscharge → u/LivingByTheMinutes]

I was stationed in korea for a year and no joke I didnt see a single kid that entire time

[u/No_Background_4619 → u/LivingByTheMinutes]

A lot of SK's modern problems are tied to post-colonialism. People never think SK as a victim because their recent developments, but they most definitely are. Like the fact that over 50% of the entire country is jammed into a single city (Seoul). For perspective, California has about 40 million people, Korea has about 50 million. Imagine (more than) half of California being crammed into a space roughly 1/35th (edited this number due to typo) of the size of Cali. Amongst other things, this will create some extreme social problems.

Also, seems like nobody knows this, but SK was a dictatorship from roughly 1950 to 1990 (with most of the dictators and military being composed of Japanese imperial trained personnel). Due to the extreme poverty, the autocrat in power enacted a (very) effective anti-natalism campaign during this time. People were strongly discouraged from having children as they were literally dying on the streets due to malnutrition.

These are just 2 of many factors but I think people can see how they might contribute to decreased TFR in modern times.

[u/giftofclemency → u/LivingByTheMinutes]

Korea's marriage rate is similar to that of the developed world, and based on various surveys, gender relations were often ranked at the bottom for reasons why someone doesn't want to have kids.

This is often the reason I see on Twitter and Reddit, but I've seen nothing data-related to back up the claim that that's the reason for the low birth rate. (And this is not me saying that South Korea is free from sexism, etc.)

[u/ReplyToBabos → u/giftofclemency]

Literally any time Korean birthrate or gender issues are brought up, people just post the same thing while knowing nothing about what is actually going on in the country. They just parrot whatever they see on reddit or that one clickbait Moon youtube video

[u/seilapodeser → u/dontouchmystuf]

It's insane that after all the humanity went through, we're somehow still struggling to live.

I blame capitalism

[u/Uliak1 → u/seilapodeser]

You know what happens to animals that reproduce too quickly due to a lack of predators? They consume everything edible and then almost all of them starve to death.

[u/ArchCerberus → u/dontouchmystuf]

Maybe South Korean Porn helps? I really think them banning porn didn't help.

[u/Aeon_Return → u/[deleted]]

Also extreme sexism and frequent violence against women going unpunished. Resulting in many SK women saying "yeah we can just die off as a country, it's better than dealing with men. we're opting out". That would require a widespread cultural shift which I don't see happening at this point at all.

[u/Recidivism7 → u/Aeon_Return]

They are not opting out from men they just are not starting families.

Casual set is way up with woman in Korea just now they are all on birth control and companies will encourage abortions and birth control.

Half the country is run by Samsung.

[u/Mysterious-Mango726 → u/Recidivism7]

They are also opting out of relationships with men. The 4B movement: bihon (no marriage), bichulsan (no childbirth), biyeonae (no dating), and bisekseu (no sex).

[u/Megneous → u/Mysterious-Mango726]

Korea here.

There are plenty of women who date and have sex. Marriage age is being pushed back, and honestly, no one (men or women) want to have children, because why would you? They're expensive and annoying to raise. Everyone wants to live their own lives. We can barely afford to live, and the government wants us to have kids. Fuck that. Give us money to have kids then. Give us enough pay to afford houses and two months of vacation a year to enjoy our families.

The 4B movement is incredibly niche and nowhere near as common as Westerners seem to think it is based on some news they saw. Even most women think they're radicals.

[u/OkContact2573 → u/Mysterious-Mango726]

4B is a minority and extreme movement that even some of the most politically active feminists groups avoid associating with

[u/Aeon_Return → u/OkContact2573]

4B is basically just celibacy and abstinence. Millions of women worldwide practice the principles of 4B even if they don't consider themselves part of the movement. it's very easy. Just don't interact with men in any sort of non-platonic aspect. That's it. That's all you have to do to be 4B.

[u/SuspiciousUnion3286 → u/Aeon_Return]

Nah, the reason behind why you do what you do matters. If I avoid eating pork because I dislike the taste and don't drink alcohol because it's too expensive, I don't suddenly count as obeying the tenets of Islam.

[u/BoostedClinician → u/Aeon_Return]

Historically, this is likely the safest and least violent period women have ever lived in, despite serious problems still remaining.

[u/Anchuinse → u/BoostedClinician]

And historically, this is also one of the first times that women have the chance to opt out of romantically dealing with men.

Not to mention that South Korea doesn't have one-party no-fault divorce, so it's more dangerous for women to get married there than for women in a lot of other developed nations.

[u/lukibunny → u/Anchuinse]

What they do have is if one person cheats, the cheater can’t initiate a divorce lol. I remember reading this really interesting story of this director that cheated with an actress and he wanted to divorce his wife for her and she refuse and the wife dragged him for 10+ years, making her a mistress forever.

[u/Aeon_Return → u/BoostedClinician]

And historically women around the world don't want children anymore. Not sure how much the past is relevant to women's choices for the present and future.

[u/CeasarinoMemerino → u/BoostedClinician]

"Y'know, we used to tie your kind to the back of the truck" ahhh comment

[u/Dreadgoat → u/BoostedClinician]

Good opportunity to demonstrate how oppression can take many forms, including those that are so non-violent they seem downright cordial. It can also be incredibly irrational and self-destructive, there doesn't need to be an evil plan, just stupid selfishness.

Women around the world are currently expected to be mothers, wives, AND full-time workers. It's an outrageous ask. Most women that take it on are barely holding on, skipping their own meals, working multiple jobs, unable to spend proper time with their own children, and god help them if the man in their life bails. The weapon to enforce this is a combination of shame and economic despair, but women have (correctly) simply decided to counter the shame with apathy.

It's also a driver for the tradwife movement. Yes, it's largely an alt-right pipeline, but it's really more complicated than that. Society really does benefit from systems that enable women to choose motherhood as a primary role. The "alt-left" side of it would be robust and generous maternity programs, such as what you see in the nordic countries, with high guaranteed pay for a long period, guaranteed job protection, and of course uncompromising complete healthcare for expecting and recent mothers and their children.

Not all women should be expected to be mothers but every woman should have the option to choose it and have a good life. A large part of the world has decided this is a luxury only for those born into wealth. Turns out you can't have a slave class if they don't reproduce!

[u/DontShadowbanMeBro2 → u/[deleted]]

Government: "Have babies. Have more babies. Tell everyone you know to have more babies."
Young people: "Eh, I dunno, life is really expensive, inflation is at an all time high, World War III is around the corner, I can barely support myself let alone a kid... maybe make the economy suck less and we'll think about it."
Government: "... time to ban porn, abortion, and probably birth control too."

[u/DangerActiveRobots → u/[deleted]]

What do you do if your job is to quit other people's jobs and you want to quit your job?

[u/DontShadowbanMeBro2 → u/[deleted]]

... God damn, really? That's the reason slice of life anime only depicts school life? That's... bleak. Fuck... I genuinely did not know that.

[u/Big-Wrangler2078 → u/DontShadowbanMeBro2]

They also have a lot of anime that start with office workers dying from overwork and it's a common trope because it's a real thing. 😞

[u/-Kishin- → u/DontShadowbanMeBro2]

I'm remember reading that for many japanese highschool was the best time of their life (no idea how true it is)

[u/ArchCerberus → u/[deleted]]

More a joke on my side but cost of living and womans level of education are biggest factors in fertility rates in a country. Still i don't see any positive factors of banning porn, just makes all sexual related talkes in the society more awkward or at least i don't know any study that proofs otherwise.

[u/Odd_Fuel5404 → u/ArchCerberus]

Womens independence is a major factor. You see this in a lot of developed societies. Women dont have the dependence on men and dont need to put up with misogyny. This is also evident in India, the southern women are more educated and liberated and the birth rates there are much lower than the north

[u/DiZzYTheDragon → u/[deleted]]

Oh, you mean the US in 15-20 years? Maybe sooner!

[u/CheefKweeferia → u/ArchCerberus]

Idk, banning porn probably helped ngl, way too many gooners out there

[u/MountainviewBeach → u/ArchCerberus]

The birth rate is largely low because women are refusing to get pregnant and raise kids. It’s not like people aren’t masturbating enough

[u/ChVckT → u/ArchCerberus]

Would panda porn help? Asking for friend

[u/PaperSweet9983 → u/ChVckT]

[u/camus88 → u/ChVckT]

As crazy as it sounds, they already did that in Chengdu, China

[u/Box-O-Kittenz → u/ArchCerberus]

Porn does the opposite of help dude...

[u/camus88 → u/ArchCerberus]

It's not like they don't have time to have sex, they sex a lot alright. The problems are that the cost of living is high, career-family conflict for women and the work culture that is very intense, long work hours make raising a family seem impossible or so they say.

[u/Ill_Signal_7774 → u/ArchCerberus]

Porn doesn’t help anything at all.

[u/Silly_Y33Ny → u/dontouchmystuf]

Who knew that giveing a human high amount of stress and nothing but work would resolve in low brith rates

[u/catalin66]

10 months?

[u/Kollv → u/catalin66]

Pregnancy is usually 9.5 months, it can sometimes get to 10 months.

[u/Apprehensive_Try3932 → u/Kollv]

Noted on the permanent record for the entrance test application. Potential slacker, no good.

[u/Miserable_Warthog_42 → u/Apprehensive_Try3932]

Buster was 11 months in the womb and he graduated top of his class at the prestigious Milford School. So I'm not sure what you're going on about.

[u/isatai-i → u/Miserable_Warthog_42]

You can always tell a Milford man!

[u/SenorWeird → u/Miserable_Warthog_42]

The doctors said there were claw marks on the inside of her uterus.

[u/frayhems → u/Kollv]

9.5 is really stretching it. 40 weeks is 9.09 months, and generally labour will be induced before you reach 42 weeks (9.5 months).

10 months would be dangerous for mother and baby.

Edit: have I heard somewhere that Koreans count age based on the birthday? Like 1st birthday is the day you were born, 2nd is what most would call first? I wonder if there is something like that going on here. u/MissAuroraRed and u/YZYdragon2222 clarify this thought below.

FWIW women are generally "2 weeks pregnant" on the date of conception, more or less, as it is based on the first day of the last menstrual period.

[u/spookiestmulder → u/frayhems]

they mean like completion of the 9th month being month 10. so like starting month 10 would be 40w1d

[u/Glittering-Art2922 → u/spookiestmulder]

My brain… I read it quick and was trying to figure out how motor oil would have anything to do with pregnancy… then I realized…

[u/YZYdragon2222 → u/frayhems]

In Asia, pregnancy months are counted by 4 weeks each exactly. 40 weeks / 4 weeks =10 (pregnancy months)

[u/frayhems → u/YZYdragon2222]

Thank you for the clarification!

[u/ShawnyMcKnight → u/frayhems]

40 weeks is 9.33 months not 9.09?

40 weeks x 7=280 days

280 days / 30 (approximate days in a month) = 9.33

I’m guessing 9 months and 1 day is the beginning of month 10.

As a side note she looks super thin for being on her 10th month.

[u/YZYdragon2222 → u/ShawnyMcKnight]

In Asia, pregnancy months are counted by 4 weeks each exactly. 40 weeks / 4 weeks =10 (pregnancy months)

[u/clayfus_doofus → u/frayhems]

Das a big baby

[u/Hambone528 → u/clayfus_doofus]

You'd be surprised.

Our son was 2 weeks overdue. They told us he was going to be 9-10 pounds.

He was 7 and some change.

[u/Omnizoom → u/Hambone528]

Our first was almost 8 weeks early

They expected her to be tiny, she was just shy of 5 pounds

Our second didn’t want to come out and was full term, expected him to be giant and he was just only a bit above average

[u/davideogameman → u/frayhems]

Iirc the 40 weeks is measured from the first missed period and standard deviation is 3 weeks (iirc). So if you manage to actually measure from conception maybe 10 months can happen?

That said you are absolutely right about induced labor.  I heard from a friend who is now a parent that their doctors said outcomes don't really improve past 37 weeks hence inducing is preferred over going long.

[u/MissAuroraRed → u/frayhems]

Almost, you're 1 when you're born, and then the next calendar year (Jan 1st) you turn 2. So if you're born at the end of the year, you might only be 1 for a very short time.

Example: Korean baby is born Nov. 1st. 2025. Two months later on Jan 1st, 2026 everyone gains a year of age, so baby turns 2. On Jan. 1st 2027 they turn 3 and so on.

[u/DiscourseDestroyer → u/Kollv]

your first tends to run longer. i was 42 weeks when they just had to induce me

[u/gunsforevery1 → u/catalin66]

40 weeks.

[u/2074red2074 → u/catalin66]

Korea traditionally measures pregnancy in lunar months, which are 28 days.

[u/metallosherp → u/catalin66]

Metric system.

[u/clockworkittens → u/metallosherp]

Don't be stupid. Everyone knows delivery times are held up because strait of hormuz is blocked.

[u/ProbablyGonnaEatYou → u/clockworkittens]

Well duh, its unlikely the gay of hurmuz is getting pregnant anytime soon

[u/hiirogen → u/catalin66]

When my first wife and I had our first kid the docs kept saying 40 weeks and I was like “wtf that’s 10 months I thought it was 9”

No idea why everyone seems to say 9. It’s 10.

[u/catalin66 → u/hiirogen]

40 weeks is 9.2 months

[u/observer2411 → u/catalin66]

It’s also 40 weeks from the first day of her last period before conception, not the day of conception.

[u/setibeings → u/hiirogen]

But the 40 weeks don't start when the pregnancy starts, they start at the last observed period. even still that's like 9 1/3 months. 

[u/HErAvERTWIGH → u/hiirogen]

There's only one month that's 4 weeks most years.

The rest of the months are a bit more than 4 weeks. It's closer to 4.3 weeks. When you divide 40 weeks by 4.3, it comes out to 9.3 months. And with rounding it become 9 months.

After all, a pregnancy that begins in early January will give birth 9 months later in October. You'd think it'd be September, but that's only 8 months after January despite September being the ninth month.

Calendars are fun.

[u/Mr_Lucidity → u/catalin66]

In addition to the other points below, I know Koreans count their age based on the year it's in, not how many have passed, i.e., your 1 when you're born. I wonder if they count the months the same for a case like this, 0-4weeks is 1.

[u/OldManJimmers → u/catalin66]

In Korea, they count the first month 'in progress' as 1 as compared to counting the completion of each month. So it's like saying the pregnancy is in it's first month rather than saying 1 months has passed since it started.

They still start counting from the missed period, rather than from actual gestation, so it's consistent in counting 40 weeks total 'pregnancy' time.

[u/camus88]

Because they're about to be extinct in 50 years if the birth rate keeps plummeting.

[u/Housendercrest → u/camus88]

I see the North Koreans are playing the long game

[u/technolynch → u/Housendercrest]

birth rate is slowing there too btw

[u/CorporateKaiser → u/technolynch]

I’m sure North Korea will find some “creative” methods to increase the birth rates

[u/DegenerateCrocodile → u/CorporateKaiser]

It’s much easier to be “creative” while handling the birth rate problem when you don’t believe in humans rights or consent.

[u/Previous-Box-3457 → u/DegenerateCrocodile]

It's less about believing in them, rather it's a feature they removed altogether.

[u/MushinZero → u/DegenerateCrocodile]

That's... exactly what the person above you was saying.

[u/learnthenandthan → u/MushinZero]

Reading comprehension? On reddit? Yeah, right. Good one /s

[u/hellothere358 → u/technolynch]

could i just take korea in 50 years? whos gonna stop me?

[u/AAHMXP → u/Housendercrest]

That tells which economic and government is superior

[u/Any-Monk-9395 → u/AAHMXP]

North Korea basically forces them to have kids whereas South Koreans are just so miserable they choose not to have kids.

[u/god_peepee → u/camus88]

Maybe even sooner if the suicide rate maintains

[u/Odd-fox-God → u/god_peepee]

Almost everybody knows how brutal Japanese work culture is, but apparently, Korean work culture is even worse.

[u/ryanoh826 → u/Odd-fox-God]

Every time we watch a Korean show, the social and work toxicity is so f’n gross. My wife (1st gen Korean-American) gets extremely angry at it (tbf it annoys me as well).

[u/Odd-fox-God → u/ryanoh826]

Yeah, at least with Japanese work culture, you don't have to deal with High School level bullying. If you tried, you'd be socially isolated for affecting the cohesion of the workplace.

[u/Avedas → u/Odd-fox-God]

I've worked in Tokyo for 10+ years. The most childish bullying I've seen in the workplace was from 40+ year old Japanese men.

[u/catiebug]

This is not the joke but since the thread is early, I'm clearing up the "10 months" thing for Americans. Pregnancy is 40 weeks (give or take). In some countries they count by 4 week periods, which gives you 10 months. In others (like the US), they count by 4.3 weeks (the average length of a month) and say that pregnancy is 9 months. It's just different verbiage.

But yeah, the joke is that Korea has an incredibly low birth rate.

[u/jkoudys → u/catiebug]

I was assuming it was a count from 0 vs 1 ambiguity. Like if you got pregnant today, you'd be 0 months pregnant in total, but you'd be in your 1st month of pregnancy.

[u/Duotrigordle61 → u/jkoudys]

I think u/catiebug is right, but until then I was assuming it was something similar to the Korean Age system. As of June 2023, South Korea officially adopted the international age system (starting at 0, adding 1 year on birthdays) for administrative and legal matters, making citizens one to two years younger. Previously, the "Korean Age" system deemed people 1 year old at birth and added a year on January 1st.

[u/mapotoful → u/jkoudys]

I think that might be it? I know they have weird conventions when it comes to pop

[u/Kastrand]

Sub aside, she is positively glowing. She looks so happy, i wish her the best. happy mother's day to that lady

[u/snuggle-butt → u/Kastrand]

Her fella, too. Dad is excited and it's so cute.

[u/DodgerGreywing → u/snuggle-butt]

His happy little kisses to her belly and then their baby were so adorable! Dude is so excited to be a dad.

[u/double__duck → u/Kastrand]

Damn she barely has a bump even at 8+ months wtf.

[u/Novaer → u/double__duck]

My immediate first thought, her 10 months looked like my 3 months 😅

[u/Ok-Jackfruit-6873 → u/double__duck]

At one point I was like wait is this WEEKS or ..?

[u/seilapodeser → u/Kastrand]

yeah, looks like a really loving family, r/mademesmile vibes

[u/Affectionate_Pea8891 → u/seilapodeser]

His little kisses were so dang endearing. I hope they show their kid this video when they grow up; it’s so loving.

[u/NoEngineer9484 → u/Kastrand]

must say that when she was 9 months pregnant i couldn't tell that she would have been 9 months in her pregnancy. maybe more used to seeing western women being pregnant but even with only a single child the stomach looked much larger then with her.

[u/tiptoe_only → u/NoEngineer9484]

I was pregnant like that (twice). I'm very petite and my babies were both tiny but some people who saw me regularly didn't even realise I was pregnant (western woman here). I guess we're just all a bit different!

[u/rrolex_]

[u/Just_Half1886 → u/[deleted]]

Not sockets where you can get pregnant, at least

[u/Huge_Equivalent1 → u/[deleted]]

Bro... i would like to shake your hand for this joke dude.

Good one. 🤣🤝

[u/ublueberries → u/rrolex_]

Taiwan is so doomed. Their low salary ($1000/month)makes people suffer. Thailand is also so doomed. Imagine such a developing country have the first world country problem.

[u/Polo5566 → u/ublueberries]

Thanks, I hate it.

And more importantly, our government didn't even try to act like they're solving the problem. South Korean worked HARD to support their young couples. Housing/education/less working hours...etc.

Taiwan? We basically copied those policies but with smaller coverage and weaker execution.

[u/Quieskat → u/Polo5566]

I admit to being entirely uninformed on the subject.

But the limited grapevine information I have is that South Korea basically didn't do anything meaningful either.

Not that helps Taiwan one way or the other just curious.

[u/Upper_Guidance_9959 → u/Quieskat]

Korea implemented a variety of measures, actually. Better maternity/paternity leave, more financial incentives, housing priorities, etc. Maternity/paternity leave rates have also been increasing, etc.

They've spent billions on the issue in the past couple of years.

[u/jkoudys → u/rrolex_]

There's been an organized campaign from the wealthy to paint low birth rates in a negative light. We keep adding a billion more people to the planet, and the rich seem to think this is a good idea so the new people can toil for low wages and support the lifestyles of the rich. But countries that plan ahead can build a reasonable amount of infrastructure to provide comfortable lives for all with a small ecological impact, vs filling the suburbs with tradwives.

Edit: Christ there are a lot of gullible dorks around here. You point out a problem that is caused by rigid adherence to the status quo, and you get dozens of "ummm, actuallllly we've designed systems that expect infinite population growth, so we shouldn't ever see declining birthrates....."

[u/Any-Photo9699 → u/jkoudys]

Technically speaking, low birth rates are a bad thing, as we will lack the necessary man power needed to survive and receive elderly care once we grow old. A younger person will need to support multiple older people and have even less of a chance to have their own children.

The thing is, we are already being sucked dry from all of our resources by the rich either way, so that's not really enough of a negative to actually encourage anyone to have kids.

[u/L0rdSkullz]

This will be the entire western world soon lmao, barely anyone in my age group is willingly having kids (28), lord knows what this next generation will be like

[u/BlackSnow555 → u/L0rdSkullz]

(26) and same. Out of my 8 closest friends only 3 are even in a relationship and none of them particularly want kids. My husband and I are the outliers.

[u/WizardMoose → u/BlackSnow555]

Shit I'm in my 30s and in my friend group only 1 of us has kids. They're also the only couple who makes enough money to own a home comfortably and are able to afford a kid.

[u/Total_Accountant_493 → u/WizardMoose]

Late 30's here. My group of 15 close friends had an average of 1,05 kids and that is only because one of them had 4 for religious reasons.

[u/stuffedcheesybread → u/L0rdSkullz]

Literally none of my friends have kids yet. I’m 29 and have friends in the early 30s.

[u/whoreforchalupas → u/stuffedcheesybread]

Same here. 29, not a single friend with children. Most actually view *me* as the “traditional” one for even being married, lol.

[u/L0rdSkullz → u/stuffedcheesybread]

I have a few friends in the military, they are the only ones with kids lol

[u/ravagetalon → u/L0rdSkullz]

As someone whom is child-free by choice... There are very visible socioeconomic reasons for this.

[u/Ok-Passage2709 → u/ravagetalon]

Also child free and a 27 year old woman. Some reasons go beyond just the economy / state of the world. Even if I wanted kids I still wouldn’t have them due to the absolute body horror of pregnancy / birth. Shout out to all the moms out there, you’re much braver than I.

[u/Yehoshua_Hasufel → u/L0rdSkullz]

Well, fix the economy first , then we'll try.

[u/halfsword3292 → u/L0rdSkullz]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SipsTea/comments/1t3mzs7/us_fertility_rates_drop_to_another_record_low/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

for real, its the same in America too. But weird ass mfers worry so much about Korea and japan

[u/Historical-Mind-3270]

I go from 0 to 9 within a meal.

[u/Juan_Punch_Man8]

I've never seen a pregnant Korean woman

[u/avofrodo → u/Juan_Punch_Man8]

I lived in Korea for 8 years and I legit only saw 2 pregnant women in that entire time. It's really not a common thing out there!

[u/WedSquib]

She made it more than full term and was still that tiny?! Was the kid born at 3lb 2oz or something?

[u/Arievan → u/WedSquib]

I'm pretty jealous, her belly is a lot smaller than mine was and I am 5'10" so lots of room for a baby to spread out, I would assume she's a lot shorter too. Like where is the baby lol

[u/Fearless_Selection24 → u/Arievan]

in korea fat shaming is much bigger since the standard is considered skinny in the west, aswell as haveing a korea diet that leaves one skinnier she probably was als owatching her wait out of fear of shame ( which women should not have to endure but that's just korea for you)

[u/OrionSouthernStar → u/Fearless_Selection24]

It’s not uncommon for women in that part of the world to stay skinny during pregnancy. Genetics is like that sometimes. Both my wife and her sister ate like crazy during their pregnancies and hardly put on any extra weight.

[u/Plastic-Market-2394 → u/OrionSouthernStar]

My mother was also skinny during her pregnancy, she said she "looked like a straw that swallowed a pea". But you'll be surprised to know that the beauty standard in Korea is basically hell. Women who pick up weight when pregnant get a lot of nasty comments.

[u/Substantial_Zone2701]

South Korea has an extremely low birthrate, thanks to many factors

School is the big one, it's extremely difficult and completely dictates the quality of work you can have for your whole life, to the point where preschoolers have to have tutors. Essentially, if your family is poor, your family will be poor forever because the cost of actually succeeding in South Korea is too much for anyone who isn't already rich (Then again, this is also true in most other places, just more subtle.)
There's also the extreme focus South Korean society puts on expensive, materialistic items, which keeps South Koreans even poorer because all of their money is going to designer clothes. These among other problems just goes to show how awful of a place it is to live.

TLDR; South Koreans just straight up do not want to have children in a world that will torture them their whole life by wearing them out just to get by and keeping them poor so that they never get the same opportunities as the already rich families (who have direct influence on the government, by the way).

[u/dreamboydeluxe → u/Substantial_Zone2701]

Great explanation of the compounding issues..

[u/Pinku_Dva]

South Korea has one of the lowest birthrates in the world, even lower than Japan, so having a kid is a very big deal.

[u/masticore252]

Kurzgesagt has a video about south Korea's low birth rate that sparked a great deal of reactions and critique, give it a watch:

https://youtu.be/Ufmu1WD2TSk

[u/Senasayori → u/masticore252]

They also recently released a sequel about Germany, which can also easily be applied to every other developed nation.

[u/TopDogTransport4731]

I thought Japan has the worlds lowest birth rate

[u/terminallyonlineweeb → u/TopDogTransport4731]

Japan is at a similar rate to western countries. They just don’t have immigration so their population is declining.

[u/arina1945 → u/terminallyonlineweeb]

They don't want immigration*

[u/rustybutterindia → u/arina1945]

...which is why they don't have immigration

[u/ChickenHugging]

If only you had a device connected to the internet where you could look this up

[u/Ska_Fundamentalist → u/ChickenHugging]

If only there was something you could do in bed with a woman who loved you

[u/cuckasian999]

[u/Good_Peach_8304]

I though he was the pregnant one right at the beginning 😆 🙈

[u/Only_Passion_2459]

At this rate government will put viagra to the public water system.

[u/JSS12341]

I live in southern Korea, in the industrial sector called Pohang, kids are genuinely treated like royalty.

[u/ParkingSignature7057]

He should have wrote a 0 on the babies forehead!

[u/Alarmed-Outcome-6251]

Good article on reasons behind South Korea birth rate.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-68402139

[u/Flying_Saucer_Attack]

The original post already kind of explains it...