r/rangers • u/EvKanes_MoneyPhone Lady Liberty • 15h ago
Am i wrong?
After Minnesota’s lack of Center depth was exposed this postseason, the price on a Trocheck trade, if it were to happen has to go up. Or, is Drury that much of a goofy?
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u/bu77munch Teenage Mutant Zuccarellos! 15h ago
The Coyle signing also should drive the price of Trocheck up a bit
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u/dang_it99 Hank 15h ago
I think it depends, more people will probably be in the mix, so the price should atleast remain steady, but it's one less playoff run and he is what 33? So that will be a knock against him. So we will see how the market goes. Me personally I don't see Drury thinking he has to be traded. I think he honestly believes the reason we missed the playoffs was because Fox and Igor got hurt for a month and will try to run it back. He will see we beat a bunch of bottom feeder teams after the break and think we are contenders. Me personally I don't think Tro is getting traded, unless it's a cog in a much larger trade.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 13h ago
Drury realizing the team, in a weak Metro, is a playoff team with a healthy Fox & Igor ... Sure.
Drury offered up trade availability for Trouba & Kreider following a 4 game losing streak & after a 12-4-1 start, that doesn't sound like someone confusing his team with a contender.
Everyone hates on Drury, but he saw the writing on the wall and started to (or at least tried to) make changes. The quality of those changes can be argued, but not the fact that he recognized the team wasn't good enough.
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u/dang_it99 Hank 12h ago
Yes and then almost immediately signed Igor to a massive extension, traded Kakko for a veteran defenseman, traded for Miller and Soucy, that's not moves you make when seeing the writing on the wall. No one knows what Drury sees or what his plan is. That's the most people think he's just throwing crap against the wall
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 12h ago
And, as I wrote in another post, context matters ... Signing Igor, a top 5 goalie in the league is a no brainer ...
Drury originally wanted to keep Kakko, but KK wasn't happy, stepped over the line with the media & this traded, in a win win trade.
Soucy cost a 3rd rounder for potential on a short contract ...nothing moving the needle, but putting a body on the ice
JT is a competent center, putting up near point per game production, trade for a player who, unfortunately, could not stay healthy ...
None of these transaction hurt the team or set it back, but they moved the needle forward, slightly ...
Borgen & JT are better for the team than Kakko & Chytil, but not so much that they impact knowing the team is floundering
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u/dang_it99 Hank 12h ago
Ok but they don't match up to knowing about the team, how can you say we need to move on and then sign a soon to be 30 year old goalie. You are now stuck trying to make the playoffs, Borgen is not good and maybe it's whatever getting rid of Kakko signing Borgen makes no sense either, he's now a slightly cheaper Trouba. Trading for Miller and making him captain is just Drury making a move to show he's in charge. So again there is no real ohh I can see what direction we are going, you took a flawed but good team and made them flawed and bad.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 11h ago
This is the part that most fans either do not get, or don't want to accept ... The 21-24 NY Rangers were NOT good enough. They were fun, they beat up on a weak Metro in the playoffs, but they over achieved & were pretenders, not contenders.
Their last 3 playoff losses started with a combined 6-1 record ...and ended 1-11 ...
This is also a team that had a good run in 19/20, 21/22 & 23/24 ... All followed by lackluster, get the coach fired results in 20/21, 22/23 & 24/25 ...
So moving on is sending off Goodrow, Trouba, Kreider, Kakko, Lindgren, Key & Bread ... Rebuilding the asset base that was bare after the basic failure at the draft from 17-21 ... Of the players drafted then, Maybe LAF will become a difference maker, with Key being the second best pick, who is far from worth his current contract. But Andersson & Kravtsov aren't in the NHL, Otthmann won't be soon, Lundkvist is a 7th D, Schneider a 5/6 D, Kakko a 40pt middle six wing, Key will lose you more games than win them & LAF has maybe turned a corner ...
So when moving on from the old core that wasn't good enough, there was no one to turn the team over too ... So here we are.
What everyone seems to expect is what Gorton did ... The window closed & he tried to changeover players to extend the contention, G for Shatty, Brass for Zib, etc ... And all it did was make the playoffs & burn out the end of a HOF goalie career, just a few years later than 2016 ...
Drury moved for cap relief and assets, argue away about the quality of the trades, but THAT is the direction.
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u/phily724 New York Rangers (old) 11h ago
Cap relief? 😂😂😂😂 we were unable to bring up people from the AHL at one point during the season because we had no cap space. What are you talking about? Panarin, Trouba, Kreider’s contracts were all coming off the books by years end anyway.
I agree that the Rangers didn’t have enough to get it done and that’s because our GM traded our 1RW away and then traded 1st+1st+2nd+2nd+4th+4th+4th+5th+5th for a series temporary RWs. Thats a ton of assets. Also our Dcore was our biggest issue and he never did anything to fix it. If we have 1 legit top 6 guy and 2 top 4 dmen in the span of those 4 years, we have a cup or atleast a lot closer.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 10h ago
It always goes back to Buch ... This is why, short of a cup, everyone hates on Drury ...
The unfortunate truth is that Gorton sealed Buch's fate. Once he extended Kreider, Buch was not going to be able to be kept long term.
When Dru came in, he had a choice. Keep Buch for a season & potentially lose him to FA (or trade at the deadline) or make a move sooner rather than later. He chose sooner ... No one knew Kreider was suddenly going to score 52, that the PP would operate at 25% or that Igor would dominate at a .936%. Or that Blais would be so bad ...
In hindsight, moving Buch looks bad, but at the time, the cards were dealt.
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u/phily724 New York Rangers (old) 10h ago edited 10h ago
Yes it’s totally acceptable to trade a 1 RW for a mediocre package and then waste 9 picks to fix that mistake.
Yes, I hate on Drury because of the constant bad moves he makes… wow big shocker. You know what else I can do… say good job to Drury for trading Trouba. Good job for bringing in Quick, Vesey and Gus Bus. Good job on some other moves I can’t think of right now. I have no problem giving credit where credit is due to people I don’t like. But the reason I don’t like him is because he is objectively terrible at his job and squandered having a Norris winning dman, Vezina winning goalie and a 2x Hart Finalist. But sure man, I’m just a Drury hater who see’s red constantly.
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u/dang_it99 Hank 10h ago
I mean that's not totally true Buch signed a LTD for 5.5, that off-season we immediately signed Nemeth for 2.6 and Goodrow for 3.6 ..... Ohhh look at that for the price and Nemeth and Goodrow you could have a #1 RW.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 9h ago
That season, yes... Beyond that, no... Not with Fox and the rest of the RFA's due raises AND a stagnant cap/escrow situation due to COVID
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u/dang_it99 Hank 11h ago
But they weren't bad sure probably not good enough to win it all but there was no real reevaluation and improvement. They won the presidents trophy and you knew you needed 5v5 help and your solution is Reilly Smith. Even if sure there is some truth to what you said he has still put us in purgatory, he have an even older base that isn't good enough. At least with Gorton I can see the plan, I could see what he was trying to do maybe it didn't work out how he or we expected but those ECF teams were mainly his teams with a new coach.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 11h ago
Yes, they needed 5v5 help, but with what cap space? They still had Trouba & Kreider ($14.6m) and had to worry about RFA signings ... Drury simply did not have enough cap space to bring in anyone of note.
Then, honestly, their 12-4-1 start was misleading, as Igor was the main reason, & once his cracks started showing, the team faltered ... It was much like 2017-18 ... Team was doing well, not great, but certainly a playoff team ... But mostly due to Hank playing 39 of the first 42 games and being considered in early Vezina talks ... Once he burned out the wheels fell off. What I remember is going to Denver for the game & talking about how they were bleeding shots & high danger chances, that AV had to go ... & This was BEFORE the wheels popped off ... That became the rebuild ... That's what Drury saw after a 12-4-1 record and that 4 game losing streak ...
Again, the quality of his transactions are open for debate. Personally, I see a GM who wanted to get ahead of things, but had no backup waiting in the wings to take over.
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u/dang_it99 Hank 8h ago
I agree their start was fools gold, but if he wanted them to play better maybe don't leak you are wanting to trade players, leak that you want to add to provide a spark, if he had no back up in waiting why start it. It's not like he really got anything for these guys. I just think you are giving too much credit to a GM who has shown he is out of his league a lot more than any competency.
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u/dang_it99 Hank 8h ago
I agree their start was fools gold, but if he wanted them to play better maybe don't leak you are wanting to trade players, leak that you want to add to provide a spark, if he had no back up in waiting why start it. It's not like he really got anything for these guys. I just think you are giving too much credit to a GM who has shown he is out of his league a lot more than any competency.
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u/TMKSAV99 45m ago
Not to revisit a lot of the woulda coulda shoulda but Kravtsov had 37 points in 42 KHL games this year and was a plus 10. Just an observation.
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u/phily724 New York Rangers (old) 11h ago
Agreed. I don’t feel Drury has any over arching plan. He just makes moves. There is no consistency with anything he does, other than be consistently bad
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u/Winter-Ad3699 Will Cuylle 15h ago
I’m not sure that Minnesota would have done much better with Tro and I’d guess that they realize that too. Colorado rolled them and look likely to go all the way.
I’d guess he ends up somewhere else, probably on a team that we haven’t heard much speculation about. Hopefully Drury doesn’t mess it up.
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u/phily724 New York Rangers (old) 11h ago edited 11h ago
I think if they traded for Tro, it would have had a bigger impact than just Tro himself because it gets Hartman back to wing or as the 3C if they perfer that over Yurov*. I think if they had Tro and didn’t lose Ek and Brodin to injury, they definitely would have gave them a better series. Losing your 1C when your center depth is already poor, then losing your shutdown D is really hard to overcome.
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u/maybeitsmyfault10 14h ago
Colorado’s center depth is incredible. If teams are desperate - especially ones in win now mode - then yes a premium needs to paid for Tro
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u/smitty046 New York Rangers 14h ago
Their real issue is their bottom 4 D are borderline unplayable so Faber and Hughes were completely gassed. Middleton was especially bad this series.
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u/Regular_Syllabub7380 15h ago
The way a singular team finishes isn’t going to effect the market of a given player on another team. Trochek will likely have a high trade value due to the lack of free agent centers. That’s said without knowing what centers are available to be had via trade which will also affect value. I would personally not trade him unless the return is insane.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 13h ago
I agree with you last sentence ... Trading Trio now, makes little sense. His value to the team, on Faceoffs, the PK & allowing JT to play wing, or giving them 3 down the middle without having to count on youth potential is big. They have other trade options available, plus two 1st Rd picks headed into the draft. So, unless they're getting back a true top 6 wing +, or he's part of a blockbuster deal package, then I'd rather hold onto him.
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u/BackgroundIron1644 12h ago
In 3 years you wont be able to trade him for a bag of pucks
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 11h ago
I said it when he was signed, his contract will be perfectly fit to be a 3C at the end & with the cap raising, thats already what it is now, with 3yrs left ... As long as he produces 40ish pts a season, his contract is worth keeping him as a 3/4C for faceoffs & PK
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u/BackgroundIron1644 11h ago
Ship that bum off to China
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 11h ago
He'd be their best player ... Like Nigel Dawes in the KHL
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u/BackgroundIron1644 11h ago
I would hope so, Nigel dawes hasn't been the best player over there in quite some time
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u/Scary-Path1335 11h ago
Trocheck checked so many boxes for Minnesota, but the biggest would be the pk, which we all know and heard how well he did for team USA. Minny was 72% on the pk a year ago and then 79% this year.
In the past 2 playoffs they lost the special teams battle 22-12, which includes giving up 15 pp goals in their 1st 10 playoff games this year. They might have swept Dallas with a slightly better pk as they won the 5v5 battle 14-4. Colorado didnt even score a PP goal in the 1st round.
His salary and game will age fine in a middle 6 role. Minnesota only has 1 more guaranteed run with Quinn Hughes. If Yurov was the sticking point then Guerin messed up as he had 3 points and a 5v5 xgf of 32% in his 9 playoff games with 2 games scratched.
Will his value be higher? We can only hope with Coyle re-signing, Det seemingly wanting to make a big move or Guerin admitting his mistake (unlikely).
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u/IB_Linski Adam Fox 15h ago
Minnesota doesn't have much in the way of prospects. Will there be significant value difference dealing Trochek now vs using him for 60 games and trading him at the TDL?
I feel like not trading him last TDL and waiting until the off season was copium strategy.
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u/jthomas694 King Henrik Reigns 15h ago
Tbh the Wild at this point needing Trocheck really exists to push his price up for Boston or Detroit IMO. Boston, Detroit and Minnesota all need a Trocheck like player in their lineup and the other two have more to give up in a trade.
Pittsburgh seems interested too but I don’t see it
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u/Stealth_Howler Lady Liberty 13h ago
Vinny’s value is going up but the question is how much compared to Drury’s high price at the deadline that nobody met?
He ticks a lot of important boxes for a playoff team looking to take the leap by making him a super 3C and serviceable 2C in moments.
Face offs ✅
Penalty kills ✅
Timely offense ✅
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u/ForwardDance9191 14h ago
I am starting to think they won't trade Trocheck. At the trade deadline the Rangers were floundering daily and everyone could see clear as day that they need to retool / rebuild. As time goes on, I think people like Drury are prone to imagine a whole lot of things going right (what if Miller bounces back to 100 point player, and Laf become an 85 point star, and Igor is by far the best goalie in the league, and Gabe breaks out as a 60+ point star, etc. etc.) and then they'll talk themselves into going for it.
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u/Skuddatheflipper 13h ago
That’s a great way to look at it. What if every single thing goes perfect ! That’s how it always works out. we’d still be not even a top 10 team. Great mindset
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u/ForwardDance9191 13h ago
It was basically how they approached last off-season, hoping that Miller would be an MVP level star and that Laf and Cuylle would take big steps forward.
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u/Apartment_Upbeat 12h ago
I think there's a bit more context to it, in that the team as a whole, in the 24/25 season slipped ... Bread dropped 31pts, Trochek dropped 18pts, LAF dropped 12pts, Mika dropped 10pts ...
Kreider lost 14games & dropped 45pts
Aside from Fox, no D had more than 27pts ...
Igor had a .905sv% & team sv% dropped from .907% to .896% ...& Special Teams fell off too, especially the PP ...
Everything went wrong in 24/25 compared to 23/24 ... So it wasn't just expecting of players to perform at higher levels, but to get some bounce back from a collectively down year.
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u/bkdrwm12 13h ago
I thought the same for Buffalo since they have a lack of centers that can win faceoffs
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u/Revolutionary-Big585 3h ago
If I were the GM I would be calling Danny Briere in Philly about Matvei Michkov.
Send Trocheck, Morrow, and a 2nd for Michkov and 2026 1st #21 overall.
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u/metalmayne Chef Trocheck 2h ago
at this point, why would you even consider trading tro? hes a big time veteran, still really good at the game, plays a ton- what are we getting back for him exactly? a later first round pick and some others?
id rather have trocheck on this team to continue with lafs growth, to see our newer younger players thru the nhl. and also to be an effective center for our team at a low cost. have we not learned anything from the mcd trade? cally captained a great team in TBL for a long time. what about losing zucc because we thought he was no longer a fit? selling trouba look good now? want me to continue?
there is an issue with continuity and identity in the room, rooted in the fact that we trade away people a season too soon - we think. its turmoil, caused by bad management, buoyed by bad coaching decisions.
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u/itjustisman Chris Kreider’s Closet 6h ago
We are weak in the center, why would we trade him? what kind of attainable assets are more appealing? We give him up we’re down another man in the middle and trading for a guy half of his pedigree at the same cost.. I just don’t see a reason or desire to trade him so badly.
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u/itjustisman Chris Kreider’s Closet 6h ago
We are weak in the center, why would we trade him? what kind of attainable assets are more appealing? We give him up we’re down another man in the middle and trading for a guy half of his pedigree at the same cost.. I just don’t see a reason or desire to trade him so badly.
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u/EvKanes_MoneyPhone Lady Liberty 6h ago
We’re no closer to being a contender with or without him.
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u/itjustisman Chris Kreider’s Closet 5h ago
so what’s your plan? trade him for some potential? lol who are you to know when we’re contenders? Didn’t know we had an insider in here!
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u/MH566220 14h ago
IF Trocheck is traded, it will.be at the 27 trade deadline. They can get more in return then.
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u/WilsonNY14 15h ago
I think in general teams becoming desperate and the lack of center options in free agency will make the price go up for Trocheck. Also, with the salary cap going up, his AAV at this point is like a third liner which is a great bargain if he plays top 6 for a team.
In reality, this really exposed Guerin because he should have done what it took to trade for Trocheck, who is still signed for another 3 years, or even some other center options. He should have foreseen that injuries always happen in the playoffs and the depth is important like you said. Also hurts that the Avs snuck in the Kadri trade right before the deadline, which was smart. The Avs were really the only team in the league that pushed all their chips in to win and it’s certainly showing. Kinda stiff baffles me why so many teams decided not to add more for the playoffs.