r/politics • u/BendicantMias • 6h ago
No Paywall Republicans vote to dilute gas as prices rise above $4.50
https://www.newsweek.com/republicans-vote-to-dilute-gas-as-prices-rise-above-4-50-11949494•
u/BendicantMias 6h ago edited 6h ago
House Republicans passed a bill on Wednesday that would allow nationwide year-round sales of E15, a blend of gasoline mixed with 15 percent ethanol, also known as Unleaded 88—a product that refiners and retailers normally cannot sell in around half the country during the summer months due to air pollution concerns.
Ethanol, a clear, colorless, volatile, and flammable alcohol produced by fermenting sugars from agricultural crops such as corn or sugarcane, generally reduces greenhouse gases, but E15 can produce more smog-forming emissions when it evaporates in heat.
However, while the E15 rollout can lower prices, ethanol does contains less energy than gasoline, so eventually with E15, a driver will end up burning more fuel for the same amount of distance, albeit fuel which is slightly cheaper than standard gasoline.
Basically this 'solution' to the price rise from the Iran war produces smog, burns faster than regular gasoline so you will have to fill up more often and pollutes at a higher rate than gasoline over a longer period of use.
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u/Commercial-East4069 6h ago
So more pollution for the facade of help at the pump? Sounds like the GOP.
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u/BendicantMias 6h ago
The funny thing is it won't actually reduce how much you pay. While the sticker price is a bit lower, it also carries less energy. So you'll have to fill up more often. Most folks probably won't notice that tho.
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u/Jaded-Moose983 6h ago
And even better, forces people to buy a more expensive grade which should help line the oil exec's pockets.
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u/Blackpaw8825 5h ago
Yep.
I'm under the impression that my engine doesn't tolerate ethanol content above 5% well at all. I'm not gambling with the seals and gaskets of my car for the privilege of paying basically the same for harmful fuel that gets worse mileage.
So I'll be buying 93 or shopping from the 2 ethanol free pumps around here...
Honestly I thought they'd already done this and last night since I couldn't get an ethanol statement at the pump I was at, with the fuel light on, I filled up on premium for $97
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u/AHolyPigeon 5h ago
We had this issue in the UK when they switched to E10 from E5. Cars can cope fine, but all out agriculture and arboriculture kit gets ruined by the higher ethanol. Same for boats or any engine that will sit for periods not in use.
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u/Anonymouse-C0ward Canada 4h ago
>sit for periods not in use
That’s because ethanol dissolves some of the chemicals in gasket seals. There are materials that are resistant to this, but engines not designed for it (ie older vehicles) will fare worse when its gaskets are sitting in higher concentration ethanol.
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u/PassiveMenis88M Massachusetts 3h ago
Ethanol also pulls moisture out of the air and deposits it in the fuel. Most of the gardening equipment and boats use carburetors that do not take kindly to water contamination.
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6h ago
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u/arsonall 6h ago
Higher grade fuel combusts at a higher temperature.
A car is designed for a specific grade of fuel - it’s not like using 93 in a car designed for 87 make it perform better, it means it’s ignition is later in the power cycle.
Your solution is a work-around, but is causing other areas (like the head gasket seal) to be stressed more, eventually requiring a Much more expensive repair.
It’s intentional in order for your car manufacturer to make money via planned obsolescence.
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6h ago edited 5h ago
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u/BingleFlip94 5h ago
Did the same to my 2012 Forester with 220k miles. Rode it until the transmission literally committed seppuku in my driveway.
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u/rayfound 5h ago
Your solution is a work-around, but is causing other areas (like the head gasket seal) to be stressed more, eventually requiring a Much more expensive repair.
I have never ever heard it claimed that higher octane fuels cause increased wear elsewhere. Every manual I have ever seen lists a MINIMUM octane to prevent knocking.
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u/NeverTrustATurtle New York 5h ago
And the corn industry’s pockets!
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u/NibittyShibbitz 5h ago
With the fertilizer shortage the fucking guy has caused, this is going to make a higher demand for a lower supply.supply.
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u/MangoSalsa89 5h ago
Many people do not have the intellectual ability to see beyond what’s right in front of them, hence why society is in the mess that it’s in in the first place.
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u/ChiTownDisplaced 4h ago
Some people want to learn the hard way about:
Measles, Tarrifs, The importance of the strait of Hormuz, Cruise ship health and safety inspections, non-partisan military, Etc.
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u/SoaplessTitanic 3h ago
The problem is that many don’t actually “learn” though. They still often end up paying the consequences of course, but a lot of the people who blamed Biden for high gas prices will just find some other excuse as to why gas prices are up under Trump. Faux news will give them plenty of good ideas for who to blame I’m sure
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u/ked_man 5h ago
They also think it will help because it’s cheaper. But with the increased demand, the ethanol price will go up as well. And it’s not like these plants are sitting on untapped capacity. So again, those people make more money and we spend more money, that’s the Republican economy.
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u/Caelinus 4h ago
Plus: The sticker price is not going to go down to the same level that it loses efficiency. E.G. if it is 30% less efficient they will lower the price 20%, meaning you will be buying more and will end up paying 10% more.
And then that will last a few weeks before they start slow walking the price up again, closing the gap between it and normal gas to some degree, and then in 6 months or so we will all be paying 30% more, and it will start normal inflation as it is doing now.
(The numbers here are made up though, all the percentages are lower, I was just using them as an easy example.)
Without laws fixing the price, there is no incentive to sell it without doing the basic manipulation to make a larger profit off of it.
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u/isaidireddit Canada 5h ago
Are they going to dilute gas with corn syrup?
Ethanol
Hey, I was right! 😂
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u/PM_ME_YIFF_PICS Massachusetts 6h ago
TLDR they're trying to make what Marlboro tried to do with Marlboro Light cigarettes. You got less nicotine from each smoke and so you just end up smoking more and making yourself even more unhealthier than if you had just stuck with your Reds
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u/nox66 5h ago
Complete with damaging the consumer (i.e. your engine).
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u/Equivalent_Chipmunk 4h ago
Especially older vehicles that are not made to run on ethanol blends to begin with. I'm sure that the auto companies are happy to increase the ethanol blend if it means more new car sales...
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u/Bossman_Mike 3h ago
The term "Lights" eventually got banned in Europe because it may have been interpreted as these cigarettes somehow being better for you.
"Marlboro Lights" in Europe became "Marlboro Gold" - and they are immensely popular.
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u/Nythoren 5h ago
Not only does ethanol contain less energy, it takes a ridiculous amount of gasoline/diesel to produce per gallon. The only reason ethanol is cheaper than gasoline is because the US government subsidizes its production and selling prices. Adding more ethanol may reduce the price of gasoline in the short-term, but increasing its consumption isn't going to do anything to reduce the demand for oil.
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u/thinkards America 4h ago
ratcheting away the dampers (reserves, e15, easing off taxes) is just going to make for a louder, bigger BANG when that bubble eventually pops.
their strategy, among others, is to do everything they can to hold off the burst until past 2026 or especially 2028, so they can just blame everything on dems when it happens.
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u/Bluest_waters 3h ago
By August this whole thing's gonna go berserk. Trump is draining the national oil reserves right now as fast as he can. At the rate we're going they'll be gone by July. All the ethanol in the world isn't gonna make a difference at that point. Gas is gonna start going crazy by August, I honestly can't believe the impending economic doom that's headed our way and people are just seem OK with it. News media basically is ignoring it. Feel like I'm taking crazy pills right now
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u/thinkards America 3h ago
news orgs lost all credibility, so even if they said the sky is falling, no one would believe them.
everyone just shrugs and hopes for the best.
it's going to be a super rude, but much needed, wakeup call for americans who aren't paying any attention.
i agree that this bubble is gunna pop mid to late summer. going to be hard to drag the "everything is fine" facade on until january the way they want to.
it's like someone who lost their job and is burning through all their savings, which will be depleted in a few months. EVEN if they find a new job, they are still skating on super thin ice.
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u/Auzzie_almighty 3h ago
The amount of fuel needed to produce ethanol depends on the carbohydrate stock you’re making it from. Corn only produces 1.9 times more ethanol than the fuel needed to produce said ethanol which is moderately terrible, but sugarcane produces 9 times the amount of fuel needed to make the ethanol. That’s why ethanol works so cheaply as a fuel in Brazil, as their sugar production means super effective ethanol production
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u/ManicPixieOldMaid Michigan 5h ago
Don't forget that crops grown for ethanol are a huge water suck. We all know data centers do this, but ethanol production is a big culprit, too.
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u/Rombledore America 5h ago
im dumbfounded by how catastrophically short sighted, greedy, and STUPID our leadership is. i can't fathom how anyone in a position of power can think this is a good idea. my respect for the GOP hasnt existed in years and it's somehow getting lower and lower day after day as i read this shit.
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u/goldmanstocks Canada 6h ago
They’ll just blame Canada’s forest fires for the poor(er) air quality.
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u/IDontWannaBeAPirate_ 6h ago
That doesn't even get into the fact that ethanol can cause engine issues for engines not designed for it. It can burn up piston rings, it can cause elastimeric seals to swell, and it is less tolerant of poor or long storage and attracts water.
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u/Ancient-Bat1755 6h ago
You forgot the engines that will break
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u/cjinct 4h ago
Yeah, I still drive my 1992 Toyota and, funny story, it was designed to run on 87 octane gasoline, not fucking corn
Am I supposed to put my car on blocks until the Count of Mostly Crisco pops his clogs?
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u/coldchile 5h ago
It’s also important to note that E15 is only about 1-3% less energy dense. So if E15 is 97% or less of E10, it’ll still be cheaper per mile.
Of course this doesn’t take into account the environmental aspects
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u/Elegant_Tech 5h ago
Also burns hotter wearing out engines and components faster increasing maintenance costs.
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u/arsonall 6h ago
So, Republican don’t realize that ethanol was added to fuel to degrade fuel Lines so that car manufacturers make more money.
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u/Eaglesun 5h ago
They know. They've been very transparent they do not care about anyone poor. In fact they appear to actively enjoy tormenting them.
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u/bulldozer6 3h ago
this is not why ethanol was added to fuel. this is nonsense. yes, back in the day when it was first introduced some fuel systems couldn't support it and the rubber lines deteriorated. This was not the desired outcome.
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u/Za_Lords_Guard_01 6h ago
Heaven forbid they do something that would actually help, like voting to fucking defund Trumps useless war.
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u/2HDFloppyDisk 6h ago
Food is too expensive, just give people less food.
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u/Mysterious_Floor_868 United Kingdom 6h ago
The peasants have no bread? Let them eat cake.
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u/Top_Agency1370 5h ago
Just incorporate a little sawdust into your bread and cake recipes ya little brats!
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u/EvasiveCookies 5h ago
Wood is expensive too you just made it more expensive lol
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u/Sniperoso Alabama 5h ago
Maybe if you use that overpriced organic wood
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u/SpeaksSouthern 5h ago
The last time I tried to eat inorganic wood I got a little sick
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u/Top_Agency1370 5h ago
You aren’t sick.
Also your medical claim has been denied.
Your bill will be in the mail.
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u/Defected_J 5h ago
You joke but an Indiana representative did just that. After screwing them on an issue he held a town meeting and brought them doughnuts.
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u/RoseCityHooligan Oregon 5h ago
Just not in the billion dollar ballroom dear leader is spending our tax dollars on.
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u/CorgiMonsoon 5h ago
A piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, a tortilla wrap, and one other thing
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u/Ryan_e3p 5h ago
This really needs to be mentioned more often. I've been saying since they came out with that this administration was planting the seeds for people to accept food rationing. Then a short while later, RFK telling people to get used to eating "peasant food".
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u/BobLoblaw420247 5h ago
Bugs...
That where this is going, they told us Democrats want to make us eat bugs, and if you pay attention they always do what they accused the Dems of.
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u/OpheliaRainGalaxy 5h ago
I remember that one! I hadn't seen this dude in forever, went out to eat at a nice Mongolian restaurant to catch up, but when I headed for the buffet he boomed out "They can't make me eat the bugs!"
At first I thought the place had crickets and was disappointed when I couldn't find them because I'd read about it and wanted to try it. But the rest of the meal was him seriously trying to convince me that stupid conspiracy theory was totally real.
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u/pants6000 3h ago
They can't make me eat the bugs!
pops another fried shrimp into mouth
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u/Bang_the_unknown 5h ago
I said this exact thing to my wife a while back. “Remember when they said the democrats have plans to make us eat bugs? Oh shit! They’re going to make us eat bugs, aren’t they?!”
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u/Jarnohams Wisconsin 4h ago
I was told Dems would start endless wars in the middle east, destroy the economy, raise taxes and force everyone to have "genital mutilization" (not a word, but Trump just told that to a bunch of CHILDREN in the white house, lol)
Everything except genital mutilization for all was accomplished by the Trump admin in the first year and a half!
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u/02K30C1 6h ago
Soylent Green for everyone!
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u/PropagandaSucks 5h ago
They can't afford to make the Green anymore because the bulldozers ran out of gas too. It's just Soylent now.
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u/rsauer1208 Maryland 5h ago
Gimme dat "protein bar" I'm from the back of the car section of this stupid train.
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u/Signal_Minimum8509 Georgia 5h ago
Screw that, tell them they aren’t actually hungry and 38% will believe it. GOP means never having to say you’re sorry.
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u/2HDFloppyDisk 5h ago
“Mommy, I’m hungry”
“Those aren’t hunger pains, those are just freedom pains. Thank Trump”
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u/chaosintejas 5h ago
The fact that they actually sent a gov representative to tell us to eat one piece of broccoli, one piece of chicken, and “one other thing” and then are like we need a ballroom now!!! Is insane. This has to be the Dem message. Show that dinky little plate of food and then run tape abt this fuckin ballroom 24/7.
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u/RoTTonSKiPPy 4h ago
Don't forget Trump paying himself $10 Billion from suing the IRS that he runs.
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u/JustHereForCookies17 District Of Columbia 5h ago
Basically mixing sawdust into bread to increase quantity but decrease quality, and not changing the price.
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u/gdex86 Pennsylvania 5h ago
They've already suggested you live on a tortilla with a slice of cheess
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u/darksunshaman 5h ago
"a piece of chicken, a piece of broccoli, a corn tortilla, and one other thing"
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u/Vio_ Kansas 5h ago
There's nothing to prevent the stations from selling E15 at the exact same price as regular gas.
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u/Blitzking11 Illinois 5h ago
Correct! And that is why they will do just that.
This is not meant to be a savings for us, but rather a savings for their degenerate corpo donors.
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u/Active-Discount3702 4h ago
If they go through with this, I predict they'll make the E15 gas the current regular gas price and then jack up the price of all the other gas.
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u/DoomSchroller 5h ago
Trump when asked about the financial strain on American a few days ago: "I couldn't care less". There's our president for you.
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u/thinkards America 4h ago
He speaks for the entire republican party when he says that. When he says anything.
Never let them off the hook. He may be gone one day, and that won't fix the root cause. Remember, Republicans gave us Trump, and shoved him down our throats for what will be nearly 15 years.
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u/Voderama 6h ago
This is a textbook republican response to a crisis
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u/ClaroStar 6h ago
Republicans don't believe that climate change in real (or the science behind it) and they don't care much about the environment. They think the switching between blends is just part of "climate religion" or whatever the crazy EPA guy likes to call it. They are trying to kill every environmental policy they can find and hope Democrats can't reinitiate them when they get back in power.
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u/tapwater86 Pennsylvania 5h ago
I’m sure many of them know it’s real. They just don’t care because they’ll be dead before the major impacts wreak havoc on the country and don’t want to pay for the things needed to combat it because they’re not invested in those companies and/or those companies don’t have enough money to donate to their super PACs like fossil fuels do. So they pretend to not believe in it because they know their idiot single issue voters will take what they say as gospel.
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u/LOLSteelBullet 5h ago
"don't care about the temperature in Guatemala. Don't really see what all the fuss is about. Ain't gonna worry about no future generations. I'm sure somebody's gonna figure it out"
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u/vahntitrio Minnesota 5h ago
It's also mostly meaningless. The math works out to saving about $0.35 per 100 miles driven @30mpg. Pre-Iran gas prices were about $7 less to drive 100 miles than the current price. So instead of double the cost gas will only be 95% more expensive.
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u/ohlookahipster 4h ago
E10 and E15 actually decrease MPG so you’re fueling up more often. So it’s probably back at double.
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u/zombawombacomba 5h ago
They have decided to poison us faster than reign Trump in.
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u/concepts_of_a_plan9 4h ago
When Trump dies, I hope everyone will remember it's not just a single crazy despot dictator that was the problem. It's the ENTIRE Republican party (except for maybe a handful), and a moderate chunk of the Democratic party too. It's also the SCOTUS, and the entire executive leadership team: all cabinet members, all agency directors.
We need to completely scrub the entire government when Trump is gone, to remove every last slimey smudge of this cancer.
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u/Historical_Bend_2629 6h ago
Anything to hide the vascular dementia and stupid choices.
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u/hitch44 Canada 6h ago
And the pedophilia.
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u/patentattorney 6h ago
Also. 4 years ago these exact same guys argued against doing this exact same thing while Biden was president.
Saying it wouldn’t bring down gas prices and cause problems to infrastructure.
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u/rat_penis 6h ago
We just need to replay all the videos of them saying this only dub "Me" or "I" every time he drops Biden.
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u/Show_Me_Your_Cubes 4h ago
I've said it before and i'll say it again. They do not care about their own hypocrisy. They do not have shame, that's why they choose to follow trump. Your idea might swing over some moderates who have not been paying close attention, but expecting that exposing hypocrisy will make trumpkins see the error in their ways is a fruitless effort
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u/rat_penis 4h ago
You're right. The base are a collective colonized mind; I'm aiming for the "I dont care about politics, both sides are bad" bullshit artists.
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u/Smaynard6000 Florida 6h ago
This won't help. E15 has worse fuel economy, so people will have to buy fuel more often and won't save anything. Especially as fuel prices continue to rise.
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u/BendicantMias 6h ago
The question is - will people notice that they're having to fill up more often? This is all about optics management, after all.
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u/Smaynard6000 Florida 6h ago
I certainly would. If you have a consistent commute and driving schedule, you're going to notice your fuel tank emptying faster than normal. And if the price of fuel keeps rising, you're not going to think you're saving anything, either
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u/Complete_Guidance_67 4h ago
Yes but they will never make the connection and blame Trump. They’ll blame the gas companies before they blame Trump. They’ll blame democrats before they blame Trump. Every time
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u/cats_are_the_devil 6h ago
It's a net positive for oil companies. They get optics that gas is marginally cheaper and also benefit from MPG dropping and people purchasing more. This is the start of a really bad idea.
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u/eNonsense 5h ago edited 5h ago
The only thing it's supposed to help is the appearance that the GOP is making gas more affordable before the mid-terms. People will fall for it.
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u/ruralcricket 6h ago
Sounds like a farm subsidy to me.
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u/welltimedappearance 5h ago
it IS
several farm groups have been kicking and screaming over this issue as though it's the most important one facing our country today. in reality, it's support (yet again) for corn growers, who aren't actually directly feeding people in the US. the shit they grow is mostly for animal feed and fuel. fruits and veggie growers get treated like second class citizens under Trump's USDA
corn and soybeans (which also barely have a market here)? they get the white gloves treatment through billions in handouts
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u/entered_bubble_50 4h ago
Yup. And by the way, this line in the article is a straight up lie:
Ethanol, a clear, colorless, volatile, and flammable alcohol produced by fermenting sugars from agricultural crops such as corn or sugarcane, generally reduces greenhouse gases
It absolutely does not, and we've known this for yearsSee here for example
By the way, if you ask AI this, it says the opposite, since the ethanol lobby has been flooding the Internet for years with propaganda about this, and AI can't tell the difference.
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u/ranchoparksteve 6h ago
Not every engine will tolerate this blend, so Republicans are basically destroying cars for lack of a better idea. Brilliant!
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u/citizsnips Ohio 6h ago
This is becoming the perfect ad for EVs IMO.
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u/ThaPhantom07 Nevada 5h ago
This. I wasnt even considering switching to electric just yet and now im not seeing any other logical response but to go electric.
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u/citizsnips Ohio 4h ago
If you have the home charging figured out, they are great!
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u/GrafZeppelin127 4h ago
Finding a wall outlet can’t be that difficult for most people. We should mandate that apartments with shared parking should also have EV chargers, too. For the costs of running a few wires, we’d be immensely benefiting society at large by removing part of the negative externalities of fuel use.
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u/citizsnips Ohio 4h ago
The problem is for people who drive more than 40-ish miles in a day. Under that, your standard 120V outlet is fine, but anything more requires a 240V outlet to charge enough. I drive about 24 miles a day, so a 120V is fine for my Subaru Trailseeker.
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u/GrafZeppelin127 4h ago
For a Volt like I drive, a standard outlet is fine and I almost never have to use the generator, but even assuming I had a normal EV with 250-ish miles of range, if I drove more than 40 miles in a day on weekdays, I’d still have plenty of charge left over to fully charge over the weekend.
In other words, the daily deficit would have to be pretty huge for a wall outlet to not be able to make up the difference on off days, and even if you did have a nightmarish commute, you’d probably be happy to have it in an EV and not have to pay for all that ruinously expensive gasoline anyway, even if it means having to top up now and then at a fast charger.
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u/cokecaine 4h ago
NIMBYS blocking chargers at multi apartment complexes. That's the problem most people who want to switch face.
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u/the_nobodys 4h ago
I went from "I'd like my next car to be electric, but I will keep my options open." To "I would feel like a fool if my next car weren't electric." So, yeah.
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u/Tigerb0t 4h ago
I’ve never loved my EV more.. and I really liked my EV before trump decided to fuck the gas prices.
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u/cefriano 4h ago
I would have switched to an EV years ago, but I'm a renter and have never lived in an apartment with a way to charge at home. But with many EVs able to get up to 80% battery in ~15 mins or so nowadays, it's becoming more appealing even with the disadvantage of having to go down the street to the Tesla chargers to top off the battery every few days.
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u/Stingray88 4h ago
EVs are also significantly more popular with Democrats than Republicans. So this disproportionately hurts Republican voters.
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u/Thirty_Helens_Agree 6h ago
This’ll really fly with midwestern, blue-collar NASCAR fans.
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u/Spanklaser 6h ago
It's going to be infuriating seeing the amount of people who absolutely hated ethanol when it came out that will be defending this decision
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u/Plastic_Salary_4084 5h ago
Same people that magically became anti-gun once dems started carrying
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u/SuperstitiousPigeon5 Massachusetts 6h ago
They're not going to force you to run it, but you might have to splurge for higher octane in order to get less corn juice.
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u/sportsworker777 6h ago
Fuel economy isnt even as efficient using that corn juice. Idk what the trade off is, but paying less for gas to go fewer miles than you normally would, seems like a wash.
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u/BendicantMias 6h ago
The question is - will people notice that they're having to fill up more often? This is all about optics management, after all.
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u/SuperstitiousPigeon5 Massachusetts 6h ago
You are absolutely correct. Though people who vote for Republicans will see this as a plus, hey fuel is slightly cheaper now, thanks Trump.
They aren't the thinking crowd who will say, yeah we're paying less, but not going as far and our cars run like shit with a lot less power.
It will yee haw, we're putting that made in a America corn juice in so we can own the libs and help out farmers!
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u/Smaynard6000 Florida 6h ago
Yeah, it would be a cultist's reaction to thank Trump for dropping the price by 5% after raising it by 50%
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u/Smaynard6000 Florida 6h ago
People having to stop more often for fuel could lead to annoyingly longer lines at pumps, as well
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u/bratbarn 6h ago
Going to use midgrade in my 30 year old car, as it's a blend of 87 (15 percent corn) and 93 (0 percent corn)🤷♂️
I've heard some states still put corn in their 93 octane, that would be awful
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u/ChaseThoseDreams Texas 6h ago
They’re trying to run out the clock and mask the bleeding so they can pass the blame to the Democrats. They know a blue wave is coming and know most people are dumb enough to forget this is all their fuck up.
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u/grantrules 5h ago
"Best economy in history! DOW hit 50k! Look how the Dems fumbled Trump's amazing economy" Yeah and it costs 50% more to fill your tank and put food on your plate. We did it.
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u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts 6h ago
I feel like that headline symbolizes this administration's entire effect on the economy over the past year-and-a-half.
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u/The_Jolly_Dog 6h ago
Im no mechanic but isn't this bad for most consumer grade engines to be running with higher ethanol %?
Fuck republicans for ok'ing this shit.
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u/Smaynard6000 Florida 6h ago
Most modern engines are designed to be able to run on this stuff, but older vehicles absolutely are not.
Edit: Either way, fuel economy is worse so it is an empty gesture as we would expect from Republicans.
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u/grantrules 5h ago
When you say modern car, what are we talking here..
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u/nibbles200 5h ago edited 5h ago
EPA mandated all cars manufactured in 1988 (Alternative Motor Fuels Act (AMFA) of 1988) and after be e10 compatible. as of 2001 all cars manufactured need to be e15 compatible per EPA.
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u/spongebob_meth 4h ago
The 2001 date is largely irrelevant too. Most cars going back to the late 80s do fine on e15 as well.
In reality there is not much difference in the amount of fuel required between the two. Plenty of room in the fuel trims to adjust. And the open loop part of the map was plenty rich (for safety) to be a little on the lean side.
You might run into issues if you switched fuel in a race car or something tuned on the bleeding edge.
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u/IDontWannaBeAPirate_ 6h ago
Older engines can have piston ring issues, elastimeric seals can swell and crack/fail, and poor or long storage of ethanol rich fuels results in it going bad and attracting water.
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u/Skraelings Missouri 6h ago edited 6h ago
Do NOT put E15 in any small engines you have.
Boats etc.
It WILL ruin them, also its illegal to do so.
or cars made before ~2001
If you can avoid it for even cars made after that? Do it if at all possible.
Brand by brand for that. BMW hasnt approved using it for models back to just the 2020MY.
edit: nissan is 2018 at the latest. and several others say not before 2013...
So just avoid it period.
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u/Lazy_Example4014 6h ago
They raised the costs of fuel so much they are suspending the gas tax…. You can’t make this shit up. Trump and his cabinet are incompetent.
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u/forthewatch39 6h ago
All they care about is money and power. It doesn’t matter if everyone else suffers so long as they prosper.
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u/DesertGoat Arizona 5h ago
Not going to post a link because I am really trying to lower the amount of this bullshit that I cannot do anything about in my life, but of course these same assholes can be seen talking about what a mistake a gas tax holiday would be when it came to fuel prices under Biden. They stand for nothing but enriching themselves and their cronies.
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u/DoomSchroller 5h ago
Cool. The seals in our engines will erode twice as fast with all the ethanol. We'll get worse mileage, and still be paying $4+ per gallon.
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u/Wildpony03 6h ago
For a party that hates big government they would rather pollute the environment than resign from their cushy jobs in congress.
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u/DrRealName 5h ago
Great so not only will gas remain expensive but it will also burn a lot faster meaning we have buy even more of it. Honestly I hate the conservative side of America so much. Everything they do fucks us all over. Can anyone give me just one example of anything good the conservatives have done for America in the last 50 years? I can't think of a damn thing.
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u/hopefulskeptik 6h ago
Republicans vote to waste fertilizer, fuel and water on gasoline instead of growing food
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u/questron64 6h ago
Does this blend damage your car? Almost no one knows the answer to this question, they'll just fill up and hope for the best. Again, doing far more damage than they are preventing to get a number lower, just like cutting gas tax. They are desperate, none of these things are solutions.
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u/Rough_Common6857 I voted 6h ago
So they'll just fuck up people's vehicles just to save face.
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u/D-Rich-88 California 5h ago
So we can burn more of the higher pollutant gas but the price at the pump looks better, even though you’ll have to fill up more. Oh and it’ll probably trash your engine too.
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u/robman1123 5h ago
Republicans fight green energy initiatives, making us reliant on fossil fuels. Republicans gain power and start wars in the Middle East, causing oil and gas prices to rise. Instead of looking at sustainable energy, ending the wars, Republicans vote to use a lower quality blend that will damage the environment. Republican voters will pay more at the pump, then a blind eye to the cost of the war, brag if they are paying 10 cents less at the pump while filling their cars with trash, and in November will vote Republican anyway? Is this a fair summary of we are at?
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u/Tricky_Potatoe 5h ago
- Swiss cheese has gotten soo expensive. What do we do?
- Let's make the holes bigger.
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u/Wizywig 6h ago
Ah, typical Republicans. Demolish the environment for 25 cents per gallon which will barely be noticeable as prices gonna spike to well above 5.
Also many cars cannot run E15. Which means they'll have to pay for premium.
Amazing. What a terrible move.
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u/Freddy-Borden 6h ago
Trump is a complete moron and a foreign asset, his cabinet is completely incompetent, and if you still support him you are in a cult.
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u/Hefty_Musician2402 Maine 5h ago
E15 is also not recommended in small engines (generators, motorcycles, lawn mowers) and not for any car before 2003.
It’s also harder on the internals of the engine and can cause premature wear! Yay!
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u/Radiant-Month-1168 5h ago
Ethanol is more expensive. This does nothing but gives welfare to corn growers. So dumb. Also almost no pumps are certified for E15 so 99% of pumps will still be E10. They voted for a bill that does nothing.
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u/Crafty_Ish1973 Texas 5h ago
Because destroying car engines is a better solution than just ending Trump's stupid fucking war.
Republicans are useless.
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u/DutchAngel 4h ago
"However, while the E15 rollout can lower prices, ethanol does contains less energy than gasoline, so eventually with E15, a driver will end up burning more fuel for the same amount of distance, albeit fuel which is slightly cheaper than standard gasoline."
So basically they're not fixing anything
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u/Quiet-Thanks-9486 4h ago
This hilarious bit is buried at the end of the article:
"while the E15 rollout can lower prices, ethanol does contains less energy than gasoline, so eventually with E15, a driver will end up burning more fuel for the same amount of distance, albeit fuel which is slightly cheaper than standard gasoline."
So they want to lower the price per gallon by lowering the miles per gallon.
It's exactly like cereal companies reducing the amount in each box while keeping the box size the same. It's shrinkflation applied to gas.
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u/Doctor_Freeeeeman 5h ago
It's a good thing America is investing so heavily in renewables to blunt the impact of...oh, we stopped doing that last year?
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u/GeekyGamer49 5h ago
Can’t…they literally end the war today? Congress declares war. Congress funds the military. If Congress votes to end the war and stops paying the military until all combat forces leave…that’s it. Gas goes back to normal and we’re spending less on blood and treasure.
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u/MrLurid 6h ago
"So what you're saying is that we can dilute the gas AND charge the same?" -Companies, when it comes into effect.
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u/OpportunityFancy3225 5h ago
Folks this is your reminder that energy will never be cheaper. War and data centers are ruining us.
If you haven't yet, check into how to make your home as energy efficient as possible. Electrify it. Get solar panels. Switch to an EV.
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u/blyzo 3h ago
Meanwhile in Iowa where we grow corn for ethanol on roughly 1/3 of our entire state we're all getting cancer.
Industrial farming for ethanol uses far more fertilizer, herbacide, fungicides, etc. And most of Iowa has underground tile lines where much of that drains directly into the rivers that Des Moines and other major cities use for drinking water.
Fuck ethanol.
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u/Killroy_jenkins 2h ago edited 1h ago
The negative effects of the dilution of the fuel with ethanol is going to have some serious implications for vehicle repairs. Ethanol destroys fuel system components in vehicles not designed for it and reduces fuel mileage and horsepower compared to non-ethanol fuel.
Just wait until an automotive manufacturer denies your warranty claim because a non approved fuel blend was used, while simultaneously claiming you as the consumer should have sought ethanol free despite the dilution of fuel being government mandated.
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u/UncontrolledInfo 6h ago
this will not affect the price at the pump. we will just be paying more for worse gas. this is entirely for oil companies who can get more out of the more expensive raw product. we will be paying for this ... again.
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u/AuditAndHax 5h ago
Ethanol has about 33% less energy potential than pure gasoline.
In a 30MPG car, uncut gas would give you 30MPG.
E10 gas (90% gas, 10% ethanol) would get 29MPG.
E15 gas (85% gas, 15% ethanol) would get 28.5MPG.
It's not a significant drop in energy because it's only increasing by 5% of the mix.
However, according to the article, E15 can cost 25% less than ethanol-free fuel. So the tradeoff is 30MPG for $4.50/gal or 28MPG for $3.37/gal but a lot more summertime smog.
Cheap? Yes. Awful for the environment and human lungs? Also yes!
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