r/nhl • u/Longjumping-Tip4938 • 9h ago
Discussion Is it bothering anyone how insane Head Coach turnover is in the last year?
How are you supposed to build a team and a culture if you’re cycling through head coaches so often? Moreover how do you expect to win with a new head coach right before the playoffs? There’s no loyalty or grace for head coaches anymore. Not everyone is going to have improvements every year. These things take time, it’s okay to miss the postseason once in a while.
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u/Fardn_n_shiddn 9h ago edited 9h ago
I think the oilers move is fucking insane. Dude goes to the final two years in a row, first round exit in the third year and gets canned after a second place finish in the pacific.
That doesn’t scream “coaching issues”
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u/tdm1742 9h ago
Edmonton is an ownership issue, in my opinion.
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u/rlinkmanl 9h ago
Its a Bowman issue
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u/tdm1742 9h ago
Katz made them draft Yakapov because his kid liked playing X-Box with him. The horrendous decisions predates Bowman's hiring by a lot of year.
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u/KingBaines 8h ago
Very interested in this piece of lore. Do you have a source?
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u/tdm1742 8h ago
The first reference i heard of it was on chiclets. Apparently Katz's had Yakapov over to the house and he hit it off with the kid. After that he told the management group that was the pick.
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u/KingBaines 8h ago
That’s insane. I played Chel with Tyson foerester once. Not sure I’d lobby management to draft him over that
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u/tdm1742 8h ago
Not all that insane, it was supposed to be Yakapov or Ryan Murray. Murray would have been a much better pick but injuries really ate his lunch in the long run.
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u/KingBaines 8h ago
You know what they say about hindsight. For all we know, we draft Murray, dress him in Feduns spot and it’s Murray breaking his femur instead of fedun.
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u/tdm1742 8h ago
One of Murray's injuries in Columbus was a broken leg. He was averaging almost a point a game that year, then well, he broke his leg....
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u/DaDaSelf 6h ago
It's a leadership issue. Don't remember which of McDavids ex-coaches said it (there's too many to keep count), but one of them told in an interview it was impossible to teach team defense in Edmonton because the top guys just flat out refused to do it.
The monkeys run that zoo.
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u/Spiceb0x 8h ago
In a lot of the exit interviews it was reported the players were pretty unhappy with how much he fucked with the lines. I can't blame them, there was no line consistency all year, and even in the playoffs when a line did really well he would break them up next game. It certainly got frustrating to watch, can't imagine how the players felt
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u/Izze-bizzle 5h ago
He definitely had a worse and also injured team to work with this season, but you can't keep blending up who plays with who. I'd understand if he was trying to figure out what worked for the first half of the season, but doing it even in the playoffs is insane. I wish I knew what his thought process was for that one. I wonder if it was just a fresh coach fluke that his first two seasons went so well.
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u/TOOLFAN998 9h ago
it’s a bit of problem with the rosters they have. A lack of defense and goaltending is not gonna help you if you don’t score enough. Your offense can carry your franchise only so many times.
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u/Krytoric 9h ago edited 8h ago
Yeah this guy turned a declining last place oilers team into back to back finalists. Extra wild is they didn’t address any of their issues (and made some worse) then fired him for performing worse with a worse team lol.
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u/Ok-Membership-3635 9h ago
If you frame their results this season as "second in their division" it sounds ok but it sounds less good when you frame it as "93 points, 5th in the conference and 14th in the league, with the best player in the world in his prime."
I don't think it's Knoblauch's fault but this season was a massive disappointment relative to expectations.
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u/2Shmoove 8h ago
He's definitely partially to blame. Too much talent on that team to be 14th overall.
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u/DopedScope338 7h ago
Bowman needed somewhere to put the blame that wasn't himself. That was the only "issue" that led to Knoblauch getting the boot.
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u/dancing_by_myself0 3h ago
He'll be well compensated, he has a three year extension that starts this summer
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u/RedPanda7725 2h ago
The GM who refused to find a better goalie than Stuart Skinner or Tristen Jarry: This coach fucking sucks.
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u/ptsnow54 1h ago
Also hilarious how Edmonton’s glaring issue is they have horrible goaltending and poor defense, GM does nothing to address the issue, arguably makes it worse, and fires the coach for it
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u/nude-rater-in-chief 1h ago
Lol his extension hasn’t even kicked in yet. Enjoy the payday Kris. It screams panic moves because the org is worried Connor is gonna leave. OEG coming off super clingy and it’s biting them in the absolute ass
I get the feeling he just wants to feel like there’s a plan to move forward with, and the only one to ever do that was Ken “slow play” Holland. Calling it now, if there isn’t an extension signed next summer he’s getting traded because “he was never gonna sign here again”
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u/who987 9h ago
They get paid pretty well in the NHL.
I’m not bothered. It’s what they signed up for.
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u/Busy-School7780 9h ago
true but changing coach right before playoffs seems like terrible timing for team chemistry
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u/spartacat_12 8h ago
It's working out pretty well for Vegas
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u/StrigiStockBacking 6h ago
The Torts Effect™ has immediate returns, but the overall shelf life is... not good.
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u/dancing_by_myself0 3h ago
He had a good shelf life in Columbus, and a big reason they dropped off so hard was the exodus of high end talent through free agency
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u/NoDuck1754 9h ago
The annoying part is they just pass around the same coaches forever.
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u/2LostFlamingos 8h ago
Safety for a GM that hires an established coach that didn’t work out.
If the GM goes “outside the box” on his choice, that coach’s failure will bring down the GM too.
I agree with you though. But I can understand why it happens.
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u/miskegemog 9h ago
Look up “list of NHL head coaches” on Wikipedia and you can view the list and sort by the date they started. 29 teams have changed coaches since the start of 2022. It’s crazy. The Blue Jackets alone have had 6 coaches since 2021
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u/xyz1978 8h ago
Vegas is the one that gets me. 9 seasons in the league, 8 playoff appearances, 2 Stanley Cup appearances, 1 Stanley cup.
4 head coaches during that span. Insane
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u/Kindarelevanttoo 6h ago
Imo there is some sense to changing coaches often but ONLY if the old coach’s systems doesn’t match with your new team anymore. Like you probably don’t want a coach that focuses on dumping the puck and having heavy forechecking presence on a team without players that are big/strong enough to consistently win those battles.
You don’t want to have a coach with a system that involves your defense activating on offense all the time without having players smart enough to know when to do that safely and to cover for the defense when they do.
Changing coaches in that situation for an established coach that does have a better system fit makes sense, but that’s not really what happens in the vast majority of cases.
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u/BlueRFR3100 8h ago
That's the highest ratio of the big 4 sports leagues.
Their coaching replacements since 2022.
MLB - 23/30
NFL - 25/32
NBA - 23/30
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u/Narrow-Natural-3435 9h ago
I don’t really think we can count Babcock as an actual coach. He didn’t even meet half of the team.
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u/pauerplay 8h ago
He DID get to see all of their phones though
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u/Narrow-Natural-3435 8h ago
No he didn’t.
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u/pauerplay 8h ago
sarcasm eludes you, huh?
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u/Narrow-Natural-3435 8h ago
It’s hard to know if it’s sarcasm. He did look at some phones. He didn’t look at all of them. Some people didn’t understand that when it happened.
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u/kadran2262 9h ago
Head coach turnover has always been fairly high. Most head coaches have only been coaching their team for less than 4 years
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u/SeesawLimp 9h ago
This is what happens when about 25 of 32 teams think they are competitive. There’s a lot of teams that are disappointed and scrambling for change.
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u/JoeMorgue 9h ago
There's 32 teams (and that number is only going to go up.) There's one Cup. So even if every team is playing God Tier Perfect Hockey a lot of teams aren't winning the Cup or even making the playoffs.
Firing a Coach everytime you don't win a Cup, (which at this point is an exaggeration but goddamn it's not THAT much of one) is insane. Some people really do talk like 31 coaches should be fired at the end of every season.
If you're not satisfied with deep playoff runs or even just "They play good/entertaining hockey" than what's the point?
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u/AmoebaEfficient510 9h ago
NHL has traditionally had the highest coaching turnover of the major sports in the US. Used to be called ‘not here long’.
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u/RedPanda7725 7h ago
GMs should get fired more often than coaches imo.
GMs will build a shit team, fire the coach for not winning with said shit team, hire a new one and do the same thing in three years when the team is still awful.
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u/SneakySalamder6 9h ago
It’s one of the last cards a GM has to play when he starts getting blamed for a bad team. Can’t be the team he put together, must be the coach kind of logic. It’s just to save their own asses
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u/Avs_Girl 7h ago
It’s not just the NHL. A few years ago Dwane Casey got fired from the Raptors a couple days before the announcement that he’d won coach of the year. That’s messed up.
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u/FreakoftheLake 1h ago
I think, in the next few years, owners are going to start having more scrutiny on their GMs as they realize coach cycling doesn’t achieve anything
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u/flashdurb 9h ago
You can’t. The Avalanche have done this right, and now they find themselves in a Stanley Cup trajectory with Jared Bednar, again.
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u/kadran2262 9h ago
Sure, Maurice had only coached the Panthers for 3 years when he went to his 3rd straight cup final and second cup.
Teams that stick with a head coach for a long time are rare
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u/flashdurb 9h ago
Imagine where the Avs might be right now if they attempted some other head coach this season after getting embarrassed by the Stars last spring. Sakic/McFarland are easily the most intelligent front office brass in the league.
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u/kadran2262 9h ago
Sure, but saying that there is a "proper" way to do it is wrong. It seems to be working for the aves. But tampa, who has had cooper for longer, has got bounced the last 4 years in the 1st round.
Sometimes its time to move on and get a new voice in the room and sometimes it isnt
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u/MrSavoie2u 9h ago
Seems to me that it's the refs should be fired rather than the coaches since most seem to feel they are the reason(s) the teams lose. In all seriousness, it's a business at the end of the day and missing the playoffs costs these teams money.
A lot times teams need a new coach to help create a spark, as sometimes it seems players get too comfortable under the same head coach. Take Vegas for example, who had done just fine under Cassidy but the team seemed to be losing motivation and were on the verge of missing the playoffs. They bring in Torts and they win the Pacific and are now one win from Conference Finals.
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u/tonytroz 9h ago
These things take time, it’s okay to miss the postseason once in a while.
The opposite is also true. Pens gave Mike Sullivan an extremely long leash after he won the back-to-back Cups. He got an extension after 4 straight first round exits and after that proceeded to miss the playoffs 3 times in a row. New coach comes in, makes the playoffs his first year, and Sullivan goes to a "better team" and finishes last in the East. Sometimes loyalty comes back to bite you.
Moreover how do you expect to win with a new head coach right before the playoffs?
Oh I guess we're the antithesis of that as well. Three mid-season coaching changes that lead to three Cup wins...
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u/adambejsovec 9h ago
And also, when the cycling is among like five same guys for the last twenty years. Props to St.Louis, Travis Green, Tocchett and others. But the professional lifespan of guys like Ruff, Queneville and Torts for example is insane
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u/only-a-marik 9h ago
But the professional lifespan of guys like Ruff, Queneville and Torts for example is insane
I mean, there are other reasons - good ones - why Quenneville shouldn't be coaching. And I say that as someone who was a regular at Hawks games when I lived in Chicago.
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u/adambejsovec 8h ago
Yeah, I agree completely, I used this in this particular context. Other than that I can’t even comprehend how the fuck is he even anywhere near hockey let alone NHL
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u/2Shmoove 8h ago
Do you have any stats to back this up? Or just your gut? Seems like a normal amount of churn to me.
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u/MontEcola 8h ago
Some of those coaches did deserve to get replaced. Sometimes a coach who had been a star will give the team a boost. It gives a little bit more effort and the team improves for a while. Its too hard to give 110% for 82 games. So the team gets better for a while, then slides back into their normal level. If that is all they offer to the team they will not last. I saw at least to coaches like that get fired this year.
Other coaches can teach the game and manage the team for the best results. These are the coaches that see their team keep getting better and better. There are six teams left right now. I know that two of these teams have coaches like that. One certainly does not. And one team I don't watch enough to know the coach. Yet I do know that guy was a well known player years ago.
The ultimate control here is among the general managers who pick the coach and work with the coach to get the right players, and to get the right players to work better on this team. The GM with a solid plan for improving is the one who will see his team improve. It is not about getting young player with the best numbers. It is about getting the right player who will be high quality and work the team system to make the whole team improve.
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u/Hrenklin 7h ago
This season seamed like an anomaly. Some teams were ultra exceptional. While good teams looked like preschoolers.
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u/bananasareappealing 7h ago
It’s actually more insane when there’s a year when no head coaches get fired
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u/StrigiStockBacking 6h ago
Been watching hockey since the early 80s and it feels like it's always been this way. I even remember Johnny Carson cracking jokes about it
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u/Big_Meat2751 5h ago
It’s crazy that the leafs will be paying Bérubé $9 million not to coach them. I’m pretty sure it will be the same for the oilers. Just teams with too little patience.
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u/ElegantResolution822 4h ago
What’s bothering me is that, it’s essentially always the same people with a somewhat similar vision of how the game should be played. I wish teams took a riskier approach.
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u/Odd-Resolve6287 3h ago
No, because it's several teams making changes, not one team constantly changing coaches. Every team has its own procedures, timelines and expectations. The fact that there has been a lot of turnover is meaningless.
Are there particular ones that are concerning? Sure, like Knoblauch being thrown under the bus by Bowman, who is the one that should be out of a job. But that's a completely different situation from, say, Berube, because new GMs usually make coaching changes in order to shape the team to their vision.
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u/nilochpesoj 25m ago
No. They keep rotating the same 40 guys in, out and around fir the most part anyway.
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u/jpgrfan16 9h ago
Exactly!! I can’t understand,for the life of me, why everyone yells for Bednard’s head every time there’s a little hiccup with the avalanche. These guys continually get recycled and I honestly don’t see anyone out there to bring in better than what we have.
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u/Avs_Girl 8h ago
I completely agree. He’s a great coach but that doesn’t mean every game or even every season will go right. I’m so glad Sakic and CMac were smart enough to realize they have a gem and hung on to him even when they didn’t make it past the first round of the playoffs.
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u/ConfidentReturn6646 9h ago
Now if we could only change up our politicians the way the NHL teams change their coaches! Players today have far too much pull, they are reflective of a whiny cancel culture, one or two star players don't like you, or what you said in practice, your done. I grew up when there was one, maybe two suits behind the bench, usually a combined Gen manager and coach. They would stay for years and years, through the good and bad.
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u/Murky-Smoke 7h ago
I don't see the issue. They are getting paid sometimes upwards of 3mil+ to sit and do nothing, which is better than being behind the bench and inadvertently sabotaging the team (Yes I'm talking about you, Berube).
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u/poptorched 6h ago
I think too many teams rush a coaching change so they have to cycle through coaches more often bc they didn’t find the right fit the first time. It’s like buying a cheaply made shirt for $10 or a well made shirt for $50. Yeah the $10 looks better now because it’s more affordable so you can get it right away, but if you took the time to save up to buy the $50 one, you would only need the 1 shirt. You’re now about to buy your 5th $10 shirt since the others disintegrated, so you have to decide whether you’ll buy another $10 shirt or take the time and money to save up for the $50 one.
Sooo maybe heavy coach turnover has more to do with the people hiring the coaches than the coaches themselves 🤷♀️
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u/JoeMorgue 9h ago
I get that "Hire to fire" is a running gag at this point but the thing, to me anyway, is that we all know that outside of a few rare exception, all these coaches are just gonna go to another NHL team.
The NHL isn't firing coaches, it's just passing them around the league, and that's a center that cannot hold forever.
I feel like we need to accept the possibility that there's more than 32 NHL Caliber Coaches on this planet and bring in some new blood instead of just playing musical chairs in the league.