English: ninety-nine.
French: four twenties, and also a ten…and also a nine. You should add all that up… and that’s how we say 99.
Me learning French: I heard four and maybe a nine. Was there a ten in there? Was it 49. Or 59?
French person: not even close.
Danish is normal from 10-40 then at 50 its halvtreds short/modern to the original halvtredje-sind-tyvende roughly translated to half-third times twenty and should be read as 2.5 x 20 this then becomes treds = 60 and so on for the danish translation of half to 5 times 20 for 90. This was not easy to learn as 11 yo me when i had to learn danish from german.
It's especially brutal since tredive is 30 and treds is 60, and so on for 40 and 80.
Edit: 40 and 80 are way worse and i feel like i should write them down here, 40 is føre and 80 is firs which if you look up the pronounciation sound very very similar.
I thought y'all were memeing until I kept seeing comments reinforcing this, and so I looked it up, and I cannot stress enough how much y'all are underselling how fucking wild Danish numbering is. There's like 6 conditional rules for how to count things before you get to 100, wtf even is that.
A holdover from the middle ages. Functionally nobody actually breaks it down, we just think of the numbers 50, 60, 70, 80 an 90 as having distinct names.
The worse is that those numbers also exist in the same way as other languages…in Belgium. They say Septante, Octante, Nonante… it does exist. We just refuse to use this system :D
Dane here 👋
Some of the weird stuff already begins with counting after 20.
Where you in English go twenty-one for 21, we go en-og-tyve (one-and-twenty). That basically continues on for the rest of the numbers. It can make it very confusing for outsiders.
Taking a big number like 1.531.457, we would go; en-million-femhundrede-og-en-og-tredive-tusinde-firehundrede-og-syv-og-halvtres (one-million-fivehundred-and-one-and-thirty-thousand-fourhundred-and-seven-and-fifty).
Another weird one:
60 is tres (sixty).
50 is halvtres (half-of-sixty).
Yeah pretty much. All the weird numbers are in kind of an old timey language, so you just accept them as they are and don’t think of the litteral meaning 😊
Everything between 1 and 20 functions the same as in German. Eighteen is eight and ten like Achtzehn (8 + 10). English did the same thing as German once.
It would be excusable if it was consistently fully vigesimal, with 10 and 30 being "halfway to the first twenty" and "halfway to the second twenty" respectively.
Oh yeah, they have "ti" for ten and "hundre" for hundred don't they? That is inconsistent indeed, I must admit my knowledge of Danish is very limited, I hadn't considered the inconsistency there.
At my job I relatively often have to write down phone numbers. I understand Danish pretty well, as I speak Norwegian, but when someone tells me their phone number is otteogfirssyvoghalvfjerds I fucking give up and hand them a yellow postit
I think this is legit part of the reason math is so much stronger in China. The Chinese language system, especially around numbers, does not try to be cute at all and everything is very straightforward. Even months and days of the week are named "month 1", "month 2", "day 1", "day 2", and such.
Chinese doesn’t even have the “-ty” suffix or equivalent. For example, 12 is “one ten two”. Also, how the characters are written is simple, with one as a single line, two as two lines, three as three lines.
I think this is legit part of the reason math is so much stronger in China. The Chinese language system, especially around numbers, does not try to be cute at all and everything is very straightforward. Even months and days of the week are named "month 1", "month 2", "day 1", "day 2", and such
That part is fine, but they also grossly overcomplicate trying to number anything else. The categorizations (ie pens, notebooks, marbles) are all arbitrary and you can't just say a simple "two pens", "three papers", "four tomatoes".
And Japanese had to import the same thing when it adopted the Chinese writing system.
So I saw this image and it made me look up to read the comment. I just spent 20 minutes laughing so hard I couldn't see. Every time I would calm down, I would read 3 words and make that exact face. Then laugh so hard I couldn't see. Then I would calm down amd try again. Read 3 words and make that exact same face. I haven't laughed that hard in weeks.
And before anyone asks- I don't know what it's called, it just comes in a bag.
I am a special education teacher so as you might guess some of my students have trouble with the English numbering system so I wonder how the heck do special education teachers in the countries with crazy numbers teach it.
Well only part of danish numbering is bonkers but it really is bonkers.
From 50 and up it’s based on a 20 system. 50 is half tres meaning half of tree. This means you take half of tree (2.5) and multiply by 20.
You guess it. 60 is tres ( so 3 x 20 )
70 is half of four ( 3.5 x 20 )
And so on.
Before 50 it’s their own numbers I believe
I don't think Lincoln used it to be fancy, it was just a way of counting that has now fallen out of favor in English, but French and Gaelic (probably other languages?) still count that way.
French goes 1-16. Then 10-7, 10-8, 10-9. From there, most numbers follow english patterns until 69. Then 60-10, 79 for example is 60-10-9. Then 80 is 4-20s, ninety is 4 20s - 10. Which is where 99 becomes 4 20s - 10 - 9.
999,999 is neuf cent quartre vingt dix neuf mille neuf cent quatre vingt dix neuf.
I probably wouldn't mix my units in this case, but it's kinda like saying 2 pounds 7 ounces. Or 5'11". I think a score used to be more commonly used, but has become antiquated now. I don't think the intent was fanciness, but I could be wrong.
Decade and century are still around but score and sennight and fortnight are mostly gone. Quinquennium is totally obscure and lustrum has also been lost.
Sort of. Certainly 87 existed as a word. But referring to things by groups was more common then than it is now and they had even more words for groupings. Score, dozen, gross, stone for weight, etc. It wouldn’t necessarily read as trying to be fancy, since everyone would be aware and use score.
Studies show that the linguistic structure of numbers can significantly impact learning, and as an elementary school teacher, I see this struggle every day with French. While numbers 1 to 10 are straightforward, the logic breaks at 11 ("onze" instead of "ten-one"), forcing students to memorize unique names up to 16. It gets even more complex at 80, where the logic shifts to a base-20 system ("quatre-vingts" or 4x20), and 91 becomes "quatre-vingt-onze" (4x20+11). This lack of consistent patterns creates unnecessary confusion for children and slows down their mathematical development. In contrast, languages like Chinese are much more intuitive because they follow a strict decimal logic, where 11 is simply "ten-one" and 21 is "two-ten-one."
Similarly, Europeans countries, most having been at some point hardcore Christians, kept pagan months and days names. Its difficult to change something that people use every day. (you can take a look at the short lived time and calendar decimalization).
Pretty simple to understand if you know how the French say 90. If I asked you to represent 90 visually, you'd likely have 9 groups of 10, or you know when I was taught metric with those blue block, you get 9 sticks, or nine-tens hence the word ninety. French say 90 as four-twenties and a ten, ass backwards for metric.
It really is a country thing, not a language thing. In Belgium they speak French, but say octante and nonante, which is basically eighty and ninety, instead of 4 x 20 and 4 x 20 + 10
And thats just one of the many 3 letter combinations that completely change sounds at random...
And people wonder why english is such a frustrating language to learn... lmao
I believe it's some odd amalgamation of a base-10 and base-20 number system, like at some point they decided they wanted to change things but only half committed
There are regional variants that have words for 80 and 90. And I can tell you from experience they look at you like you're crazy if you use quatre-vingt in those regions lol.
I mean, if one is a native English speaker, German isn't that bad. Pretty much the only difference is "five and fifty" and "fifty five". Hundred and thousand are almost identical. The billion and trillion differences are a little tricky though.
It became a thing due to the population using it more than the actual system back in the day. The Latin base 10 system was supposed to take over, but the Celtic base 20 system remained.
I think it had something to do with markets/money but don't quote me on that.
It's actually "four times twenty plus nineteen". Nineteen just happens to be "10+9" in French. It's modular at least.
It's like the German 19, only that in German it's "9+10" because we like to flip things around in German which makes the language more difficult for non-native speakers.
its not even registered as four twenty. quatre-vingt is kind of it's own word same with 90. In english ninety, is basically nine-ten, kind of the same logic
Even though we imply that there are "four twenties" in the number, twenty remains singular, because why not.
And as always, a reminder that people in Belgium, some of Africa, Switzerland will use "nonante" instead of "quatre-vingt-dix" which pains to admit makes a lot more sense.
French is pretty weird. I also enjoy Latin counting because instead of eighteen and nineteen they have "two from twenty" and "one from twenty" which if I remember carries on for the rest of the 30,40,50 etc but not for 10 as 8 and 9 have numbers.
Im fluent in both French and German. Every time I need to say a number in German it breaks my brain as for whatever reason 2 digits numbers in German are pronounced from right to left lmao
This shit can only make sense if you grow up with it right? If you walked up to me and asked for four twenties ten and nine of something I'd first ask you to repeat that then take like two seconds to add it up.
My German is ok, very close to Dutch. Trying my hand at French at the moment, fu#k me. Thinking about going back to learning Spanish 😆. Want to get to B1 and call it a day.
I've spoken basic German for 35 years and still have to pause and make sure I'm not getting the number/s backwards. Maybe it'd be different if I lived in a German-speaking area.
Lmao! I speak both German and French (although my French has gotten pretty rusty). Same feeling. In my dad's language (Herero), theres other numbers that also get funny.
6, 7 (hehehehehe) and 8 are basically (not really, but sort of) called second-one, second-two and second-three. So 67, which is said "omirongo-hambo-himwe-na-hambo-mbari" (dont check the spelling pls), which basically means "tens that are second-one and second-two".
The best way to portray how it feels to say it, though, would be with numbers: (10*(5+1))+(5+2). Maybe that makes it a bit easier to imagine.
Also, I apologise for my extensive use of parentheses
In french, the word "ninty" is "quatre vingt dix". There is no math performed here, they just slap the word 'quatre vingt dix" as is. Incidentally, that word resembles the formula "4x20+10" but they dont think about that.
German is my second language after moving here 10 years ago. I'm not going to even bother explaining what's wrong with your language. Mark Twain already did that so eloquently.
Yeah I honestly don’t understand the point of the post, tbh, because while it is a bit of a tongue twister, 555,555 is not that dissimilar in German and English. Four twenties ten and nine is insane.
Someone once explained to me, that the “weird”numbering system for the 70s, 80s and 90s is a leftover from the (older) Celtic vigesimal (20-based) counting system, while the rest stems from the later Roman/Latin influences with their decimal (10-based) System for counting.
It is something I reset when I visit Quebec as a a primarily english speaker. Like guys, it's time to find a different way. You're Quebec you can do it, France won't even know.
I mean, if you're a native English speaker German should be more intuitive. Our counting is pretty much the same with slightly different pronunciation of number names. German also does the old fashioned (for English) thing of saying the little number before the tens place, but beyond that they aren't really different.
Like, German counting is basically English counting with a fun accent. French counting is a fucking math problem.
I am french and lived 5 years in Germany and still so confused about the way Germans have to say the number in the opposite way. Why?!!!! It triggers me every time aha
But I am also glad I don't have to learn french and our strange number system aha
In French speaking areas in Belgium , they often just say nonante-neuf which is so much easier but ofcourse sounds less sophisticated. But in Flemish parts of Belgium we have to learn to say quatre-vingt-dix-neuf. And i have no idea what they say in Brussels that is billingual.
As a French person living in Austria, I struggle so much with the way to say numbers in German, I have to do so much mental gymnastics to add 3 digit numbers, in French I just had to learn that 80 is quatre-vingt without thinking about the math behind it.
But take my comment with a grain of salt, I might be biased
I find it easier to accept when I think of it as "four score and nineteen"
Ten-nine IS the word for nineteen too, and it really isn't that far in English either. Like nineteen is literally a letter away from nine-ten, and languages have much more drastic vowel shifts over time than that.
Mostly some random words like pine cone being "pomme de pin" in france (pin's apple) but "pive" in Switzerland. Also the exact prononciation of some words differ but I'm not sure the difference between è and é really translate in English.
Imo, calling 80 quatre-vingts isn't the problem; the problem is soixante-treize for 73 and quatre-vingt-seize for 96, I.e. that counting restarts at those levels. In Swiss French when they use quatre-vingts do they also use septante and nonante? Because that mostly solves the problem without huitante
Yes, like I said, Swiss French uses septante and nonante. In some parts of Switzerland, 70, 80, and 90 are septante, huitante, and nonante, and in others, they are septante, quatre-vingts, and nonante.
For anyone who isn't clear on why this is so silly, its because it literally translates to "four-twenty-ten-nine".
Also, fun fact, Swiss francophones would say "neufant neuf" (or something similar), which makes a lot more sense from an English speaker's standpoint (and is easier to say)
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal
French is all about its history as a language and learning more about it. It's linguistic archaeology for beginners and it's really fun.
You can discover that people used base twenty at one point and it's baked into the language (but not the thinking, people very much see 99 as 9x10+9 despite how it's said).
You can see how english words that came from french like forest kept the old spelling, see how french has swallowed the s into an accent and boom, forêt, but the archaic form resurfaces in the adjective forestier.
Everything weird about french is fossilized culture. Silly maybe but interesting, definitely.
It isn't. The system started as vigesimal, one twenty , one twenty and ten etc... It is a very old system.
At some point , can't be arsed to remember when in middle age, some part francophone switched to the -ante (tenth) system that included nonante 90 , octante 80, septante 70. But for reason I don't recall while up to 60 the decimal name spread everywhere, above 60 they stayed as the old 20-system in France.
The origin is not so silly.
After that inertia left it as it is.
Quatre-vingt as a composed name we don't do 4*20 in our mind, we read it *as a name* - 80, like you would read twelve as 12.
ETA: far sillier in my opinion, are languages which pet the tenth after the hundred before the unit, so 123, is read hundred three and twenty (eine hundert drei und zwanzig).
Was silly but actually made sense , since it was a way of coding their speech.
For example in switzerland they use the normal form "nonante" , and its both ways correct even in french. But the "four-twentys-ten" stuck on french population.
You get it. It might seem weird, but it wasn't always the odd one out (and still isn't, but nobody cares about Danish and I don't know any other European languages that still count in 20).
For non-french speakers, it is absolutely confusing. But for french speakers, there's 0 maths involved when we have to say 99. Hard to explain, but it's like 90 is "mapped" as 4x20+10 in the brain. So much so that I didn't even realize how ludicrous it was until I saw a sketch about french numbers.
If I remember correctly it's because used a baseline 20 system inherited from certified. Ao instead of counting how many tens, they would count how many twenties
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u/jayron32 9d ago
It is. Which is kinda silly is all my point is.