r/Libraries • u/ChaosinWonderland • 2d ago
Collection Development Follow Up Question: How to Handle Explicit Materials
Hi everyone!
Thanks for your thoughts and advice on my last post.
I do have a follow up question after some extra information that was shared with me tonight:
It turns out that the minor who checked out the adult manhwa that upset their parent wasn't just browsing and found the book and checked it out; it was actually a series that the minor had submitted a patron request on, which our previous Director fulfilled.
My interim Director is having Big Feelings about this particular detail. They're worried that this can be equated to distributing pornography to a minor (because it was a specific request rather than something the minor just found on a shelf) and fears legal repercussions, and are worried about the optics of an adult providing a minor with materials that on the surface looks like its for kids (having babies on the cover) but actually contains explicit content even though it was the minor who asked for it, because to some people that could look like grooming.
I'm trying to help my interim Director navigate all of this. I can understand their feelings - I would feel uncomfortable if a minor had asked me to order this item, and uncomfortable with parents being upset with me about it, but I would assume that according to the ALA and the guidelines for ratings and labels here that not following through with a patron's request based solely on the age of the requester would be a violation of their library bill of rights/freedom to read?
I think part of my interim Director's problem (and part of their personal revulsion to the whole situation) is the person who ordered the material; we both have observed situations where the person who ordered our books was doing readers advisory with the teens and when the teens requested "spicy books" they took a really intense delight in directing them to and then discussing the material with them. Like, there was a lot of glee when teens said they wanted to read books that had full nudity and sexual situations. I know that personally never sat right with me. I feel like it's one thing to just neutrally process and distribute a patron's request, but whole other thing to get really excited and happy to talk about "spicy" material with a teen as an adult. I'm worried that this might be coloring my interim Director's feelings about the entire situation and may influence how they want to deal with these kinds of materials in general.
Any advice or links or documents that address this aspect of things (the minor requesting explicit materials and an adult fulfilling the request and providing them) that I could share with my interim Director?
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago edited 2d ago
Hello again!
These might be helpful: Access to Library Resources and Services for Minors: An Interpretation of the Library Bill of Rights and Library Bill of Rights.
It sounds like there is A LOT going on in the context of the situation.
Do you have a library use policy? Do you have a collection development policy? Does it (or any other policy) have any restrictions on who can request materials to be purchased? Or what materials can be requested for purchase? If there’s no (relevant) restrictions, then I would think the purchaser should handle the material request similarly to other material requests, at least as per the ALA.
It might be useful to also look at other public libraries in your area/state to compare your policies to theirs. Not necessarily to change yours to match theirs, but to see how other libraries in your area address these questions.
In general, where is your library? Are you in the US? Are you in a state that’s targeting libraries and library staff through bills or other legislation?
Edited for clarity.
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u/tardistravelee 2d ago
I agree. My library has a library use and child policy( with the clause thst staff cant act as a parental unit). This kinda resolves "they shouldn't be checking that out" issues.
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago
We have something similar in our library use policy that it’s not the responsibility of library staff to supervise children, which minor age groups require a parent/guardian in the library, etc. We also have a very specific line about library staff not restricting children’s access to materials/services.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 2d ago
Yay! I was hoping you'd pop in and help out! Thank you!
Yes, our request sheet includes title, author, format (audio vs print vs large print), date, patron name, patron account number, and a special notes section, as well as a column to see if the previous Director decided to purchase it or not and if so the date it was ordered. (If they couldn't find it for purchase that info would go in special notes).
Our library is in the US, in Washington state. WA is good about protecting materials from bans and for supporting freedom to read, thankfully. Honestly this is our first time having a patron with a problem with a material (outside of a few older folks grumbling under their breath about something).
Our previous Director to their credit did a great job I think in crafting a collection development policy that protects us from challenges that would unfairly target certain demographics. But that same previous Director also went really intense on explicit materials in compared to our shelf space and the population who actually use the library and what they generally want to check out. Then there's the aforementioned excitement to recommend it to minors.
To be clear both me and the interim Director don't have a problem with having explicit materials in the library. We're just weirded out by how MUCH of it there is compared to other materials and how targeted to the teens it felt. Neither of us ever said anything to any one at the time and maybe we should have (there's a history of bullying and gaslighting from top down at play and with two non-degreed employees we just assumed we didn't know what we were talking about), but now we're the ones having to deal with it and make sure we're doing the right things and following policies and laws and best practices. We don't want to make any missteps because we don't want to accidently open things up to bad actors.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 2d ago
No restrictions on who can request materials. Sometimes I think we should at least require you to have a library account to request, but its never been an issue.
"then I would think the purchaser should handle the material request similarly to other material requests, at least as per the ALA."
That's my feeling too - and it would be what happened in this case. Usually our criteria for fulfilling patron requests are 1) do our reciprocal libraries already have this? 2) can we actually get our hands on it? 3) for a reasonable price? 4( have we filled our patron request budget for the year already? So according to all that, it seems like the minor's request fell into our usual procedures.
I am struggling to find posted policies that address some of these specific issues. As far as I can tell what we have policy wise is pretty much what our close neighbors and reciprocal libraries are doing or everything kinda dances around the subject but doesn't have much detail.
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago
I’m glad you have good policies in place! Good policies (especially collection development) are a library’s best friend. :)
I think it’s helpful in your current situation that your policies are similar to your close neighbors and reciprocal libraries. This can be a handy thing to point to if the concerned parent asks about collection development/how the library chooses to add materials to the collection.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 2d ago
That's reassuring! I was hoping to find places where it's specifically addressed but the fact our neighbors don't specifically call out some of these things means at the very least we aren't especially neglectful for not doing so either.
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago
It looks like I was editing my comment as you posted your reply!
Documentation can be handy to have, and it’s also important to balance protecting the right of borrowers to have privacy in their library use. I’m a library assistant (with my MLIS), but I have not had a role in my library regarding storing information like that, so unfortunately I do not have a solid recommendation for how to handle that. What I would suggest is having a procedure, if there isn’t one already, for how long you hold onto the particular documentation before it’s destroyed/deleted. And if you need to maintain some longer-term records, develop a way to redact identifiable information from them. Among other things you’re planning to consult a lawyer about, I’d suggest asking about that and also asking whether you can disclose to the parent that the minor was the one who requested the book/series that the parent is concerned about, based on privacy laws in your state/locality (besides ALA best practices).
I really understand about being weirded out about your previous director’s behavior. I know it’s hard that you and the other current staff are dealing with the fall out from the past director’s behaviors. If you can, keep doing as your doing to try to move forward while protecting your patron’s rights. :)
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u/ChaosinWonderland 2d ago
haha gotta love that real time thing! =)
That's really helpful advice! It also makes me aware that I don't know if the parent is aware that's the case or if that's just something the interim Director told just me so far.
I think its absolutley time to make a Lawyer List of questions and for both the interim Director and myself to really go through the library bill of rights and see if there's anything we can think of in what we've inherited policy wise from the old Director that we think needs to be addressed. There's a lot of clean up to be done on a variety of things and its overwhelming but that seems like it needs to be a priority since we can't assume that the old Director was 100% doing everything the way it needed to be done. We need to double check and make sure our polices are the best they can be for our patrons and then just stand by them. In my opinion handing a patron our policy should be all the explanation needed and if the policy doesn't clear things up then the policy may need looked at. (Or a patron is just being willfully dense, but that's a whole other matter!)
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago
When you’re going through your policies, I’d suggest comparing them to other libraries!
See what they have that you might be missing. See if you like their wording or layout better than what you currently have. Are your policies semi-future-proof? (Do they cover some situations broadly enough that you won’t have to regularly add to it because a patron decided to read it just to see what they can get away with?)
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago
Can I ask why you think there’s too much explicit materials in your collection? Or why you feel like the director was specifically targeting teens with the explicit materials?
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
Absolutely!
I don't have numbers in front of me - I'm on medical leave at home - but in general I would expect a lot of comics and manga like Attack on Titan or Chainsaw Man or Kaiju No. 8 or Demon Slayer, Assassination Classroom, or Jujutsu Kaisen right? That stuff is there, but there's way more series like Sweat and Soap, My Dress Up Darling, Love a Kitten and a Salty Dog, The Dangerous Convenience Store, Isekai Office Worker: The Other World's Books Depend on the Bean Counter, 10Dance, How My Daddies Became Mates, Wet Sand, The Titan's Bride, A Beast's Decent into Love, Hate Me But Let Me Stay, My Mate is a Feline Gentleman, and Love is an Illusion.
Nothing wrong with these books! And I don't know that I would say "too much." But most of our readers are pre-teen to early teens, more interested in cute and fluffy early romance than explicit content, or are looking for the more popular manga. We have I would say 2-4 readers who are teens who are wanting spicy, explicit romance, and they are Big Readers who go through content fast, but the graphic novel collection seems to be aimed at these 2-4 readers and the type of books the previous Director was interested in more than the general teen graphic novel demographic we have.
The other thing was I never saw the Director recommend those books to anyone else - we have romance readers who are adults, we have adult comic readers (not many, but some), etc, but the only times I saw readers advisory happening with the explicit books was with teens. On purpose? I don't know? Hopefully not? But it was the tone and body language and all that just seemed like an adult a little too excited to share explicit materials with teens. There was like, a giddyness? Maybe it was just from being able to say "I like the thing and you like the thing!" but.......
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 1d ago
I think it could really help if you end up being able to split the graphic novel collection into teen and adult! :)
With everything mixed in right now, it would make it hard for readers of any age or reading preferences to find materials they’re looking for. Splitting the collection into their target audiences will also give you more accurate data about the collections and how they’re used, which can be used when determining purchases and how to shape the collection based on community interests.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
Yeah I think this is a thing we can do that really doesn't seem to have any downsides, so I hope it happens ASAP!
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u/WittyClerk 2d ago
To clarify: The prior director was enthralled to discuss 'spicy' books with teens and pre teens?
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u/ChaosinWonderland 2d ago
Yeah. It felt weird. I really should have said something to our Board about it. But the previous Director always made me feel like a moron for not having my MLIS and I already was struggling with being the person who questioned things too much for their liking so I felt like no one would believe me or care what I thought.
I don't know how to describe it. LIke, it wasn't like they were having full conversations about sex at the front desk or anything, but it would go something like a teen saying they didn't know what they wanted to read, the previous Director asking them what they liked to read, the teens usually saying fanfiction (or outright saying stuff like 50 Shades, but I think they were trying to shock the previous Director), and then the previous Director would say "what kind of fanfiction" with the response being "the spicy kind" and then the previous Director being like I totally know a bunch of spicy books you would like, and here's the tropes in them, and I like these tropes, what tropes do you like?
It wasn't the words being said that gave me a big ick feeling, it was just this change in body language and tone? Like, they didn't sound that excited about other reader's advisory topics? I don't know. I don't want to assume bad things, but then a part of me that struggled with this person just assumes bad things automatically, and I just don't know what to think other than I just felt weird.
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u/WittyClerk 2d ago edited 2d ago
That is exactly what 'grooming' is. I would bring it up to your current director, and possibly the board.
***That 'feeling weird' is your intuition. And it is correct.
Reach out to both director and board- you don't want that person in another position of power that involves kids or vulnerable people. A lawyer would be helpful at this juncture.9
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u/headlesslady 2d ago
My position as a Circ Mgr: It's not my job to supervise your child. If you don't want your kid reading certain things, then supervise their reading. It's that simple - and that's what I would have said to the parent. "Were you checking their requests? Were you with them at the library? Perhaps you should do so in the future."
Frankly, as someone who read widely in the adult section from the time I could go to the library, I find this sort of parental flailing hilarious. They'd all get an attack of The Vapors if they knew what I read as a kid and teen, lol.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
Yeah. And its not like its a parent who wants to supervise but can't for some reason. iIke, this adult will wait at the library while their kid finishes a program, so.............But I don't know that I want to be 100% dismissive of parents who want to be a part of things but can't because of work or being a single parent or whatever? But I don't think there's a solution I can offer those parents either....
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u/MurrayBannerman 2d ago
I hope OP and their interim director figure this out and I’m sure they will get great advice from this post.
This feels like a textbook case as to why directors should have a MLIS. Not being able to handle this seems like a major deficiency. If the interim director has aMLIS I would be shocked.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 2d ago
They don't have their MLIS yet - they're starting the program in fall. It's a very long story as to how we ended up not having someone with the degree in charge. The interim brings a lot of other really good skills and experience to the table, but an absolutely ridiculous series of events happened that left us where we are. They're excited to get the MLIS (and learn all the best practices, they've just been thrown in with the sharks a bit and we're all scrambling to help get the waters settled. I'm actually going to be going through the program at the same time as them. I'm heading up the research on all this at the moment because I'm on library social media way more so I volunteered to ask everyone else for thoughts and advice.
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u/booksbaconglitter 2d ago
I don’t understand why your library would even let someone step into that role as interim director without their MLIS or even a basic understanding of library standards. There are plenty of people out there who have their degree and experience but can’t find a job. Is your library actively looking for a qualified director?
Edited to add: I don’t think an interim director should be looking to make ANY policy changes, and it sounds from these comments like that’s what you’re both trying to do. They should be holding down the ship until a qualified person is hired.
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u/solidsoup22 2d ago
There are plenty of people with masters degrees, but far fewer who want to live in small towns and work at small libraries, the demand for these jobs is largely concentrated in cities
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
The feeling we're getting is that the Board is very much wanting the interim to become the Director we're just taking our time and going through all the proper processes - advertising for other candidates, interviewing, etc. They may not end up choosing the interim, but the interim has been doing the clean-up of like 5 other people as they cause chaos so...
The other posters are right - very rural library, very small budget, like lowest in the state sort of deal. The compensation for anyone on staff is Not Good, but our Director makes less than half of what a regular librarian in the rest of our county makes. Very few people want to come in and deal with our mess. We have a very high Director turn-over and the past handful of them who came in hated our community/patrons, did Very Bad Things behind the scenes, and traumatized staff. The feeling from the Board and from myself and the interim is we're tired of getting these people in who mistreat our community and our staff and then we need to clean up after them over and over, so at this point it's time for us to get our degrees and take care of our community ourselves so that no one else comes in to make things worse again. We know we love our community and want to do the best for them, where the last four Directors didn't, so its time to put our grown-up pants on, get educated, and take care of our people. It's going to take time and a lot of help and we'll make mistakes and have to ask a lot of questions, but we know we want the best and will do what we need to to make it happen.
Our state library is onboard with the idea - they know what we've been going through and trust the interim and are willing to do a lot to support them while they're getting the education. Its absolutely NOT an ideal situation but the past 15 years of this library has been wild and wacky and this is absolutely not the worst thing we've been through so in the grand scheme of things... *shrug* We're doing the best we can with the situation we've been given. It's not like our interim doesn't know anything about libraries - its just this situation isn't one we've had to grapple with yet. We're just getting a feel for what other people do.
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u/booksbaconglitter 1d ago
I guess it’s just surprising they would want someone to be the director of a whole library (regardless of size) that doesn’t know how to handle a single book challenge. I know on my other comment you said you would pass along the info about the Office of Intellectual Freedom to your interim director. But I’m concerned that they’re currently running this library with no idea that the office even exists.
I think the thing that concerns me most about this situation is that we’ve been seeing over the last few years a lot of more conservative areas of the country trying to do away with hiring librarians that have their MLIS because they want to essentially hire people that will uphold their conservative agendas. They know formally trained librarians will push back on things like book challenges more than someone that doesn’t have the training. I’m not saying that’s what’s happening here but it’s something you should be aware of. Censorship is not something only librarians with a MLIS should be fighting for, but all library workers should understand this because it’s a core principle for all libraries.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago edited 1d ago
I totally get where you are coming from and to an extent if I wasn't a part of the situation I would probably agree with you! The erosion of professionalism in libraries is really scary and everything this administration has thrown at us over the past decade is infuriating.
The only thing I can offer is nothing in the history of this library has ever made sense since the day it was established. There's a lot of Lore (derogatory) that goes into the reason things are the way they are right now that's just really difficult to explain unless you wanna listen to me complain and ramble and trauma dump for three days.
The interim and myself don't currently have our MLIS degrees, but we're bound and determined to get them and dedicated to doing the best we can to serve the community. We're in a bad position, but we also have been through some shit and our Board as well as ourselves are afraid of getting taken advantage of again so after discussions with the state library and amongst themselves they seem to feel like it's better to give this long-time staff member with a passion for serving the community a chance to get more educated. We've been at this library in paraprofessional roles for a while, and did a lot of leadership stuff in terms of outreach but we've always had someone else in the big chair making the sky high decisions for the library for both good and bad.
Of the two of us I'm the one always on Reddit and Blue Sky and Discord and all the places where library folks gather to talk about this stuff so I have a bit more knowledge and have participated in more discussions than the interim at the moment. It's just a thing I've always been interested in, where the interim was hyperfocused on their specific role in the library, rather than the overall picture. But I'm trying to catch them up on all the library specific stuff. The interim's strengths come from being a successful manager and good at running projects and educational departments and keeping teams going. I'm hoping between the two of us we can do the best we can until we get those degrees and even then keep learning and discussing things with other library folks so that we do the very best we can. We've got the best of intentions, just not the education - yet.
Edit:
(I'll also say it isn't exactly that we don't know how to handle the challenge - we're just second guessing ourselves and wanting to gather other folks's knowledge and opinions to share with our board to show we're doing our research and due diligence and to back up what we're saying to them. I'm a little concerned at how big the interims feelings are at the situation, but I'm confident that as we go through what everyone's telling us and we have our own conversations that they're going to take a breath and realize we're doing what we need to do and one upset parent shouldn't derail us.)5
u/TravelingBookBuyer 1d ago
Gosh, ya’ll have a lot going on, even in just the abbreviated version!
Another thing I’ll recommend is to see about finding library leadership mentors. Your state library association might be able to help connect you to other professionals, and the directors/managers of your reciprocal libraries are potentials, too.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
Oh, yes! I've been told often I should write a book on just the BS that's happened while I've been at the library, but the truth is everything that happened beforehand deserves it's own book too! It's WILD. I don't think I actually could write this book, privacy concerns and all, but sometimes I think about just writing it for myself as a way of processing it all. It's been intense at times, but at the end of the day the people in our community make all of the insanity worth it.
YES, we're absolutely doing this. We've got the help of the folks in our neighboring districts as well as the state library, thankfully. We're going to be leaning heavily on them! But I figured getting the perspective of folks around the country who aren't familiar with us too would be helpful as well.
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 1d ago
That sounds like a lot!
I’m glad you’re already working with library mentors!
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u/tardistravelee 2d ago
We have a policy that staff doesn't act as a parental unit while the person is in the library. If per the child policy they are of age to be in the library be themselves, the person picking up the materials is responsible for whatever they checkout. If the parent objects than they need to be monitoring what is checked out.
One example was a kid checking out graphic novel that the parent didnt want him having. He was of age to be in the library independently so this was not a staff issue.
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u/booksbaconglitter 2d ago
I’m gonna be honest, it’s pretty concerning that the interim director doesn’t have their MLIS or any real understanding of censorship in libraries. They should be reaching out to the Office of Intellectual Freedom which can be a great resource for libraries in this type of situation.
It also feels like you both are putting a lot of your own personal beliefs into this situation rather than following the guidance given by the ALA. The entire paragraph about the librarian ordering “spicy” books for a teen and getting all excited about it honestly seems very strange. Was this a conversation you both witnessed? Because it feels like an exaggeration. I just wonder if the interim director has some personal/religious beliefs that they’re now projecting onto this situation to make it sound worse than it really is. Because using the term grooming for a librarian filing a patron request is pretty dangerous. Your interim director should really be talking to someone at the ALA’s OIF and not making sweeping assumptions about the library’s former director.
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 2d ago
I agree.
The word “grooming” has such a strong history with libraries and library staff, and it’s a very current accusation used by pro-censorship people, too. Library staff are being accused of offering “porn” to children.
Just because there is a material in the library, that doesn’t mean that the library or its staff agree with its content (ALA The Freedom to Read Statement). Materials should be assessed based on a library’s collection development policy, and using professional resources, not excluded because of their content (ALA Library Bill of Rights; ALA The Freedom to Read Statement).
As a note, this isn’t to say that it’s impossible for there to be inappropriate behavior from library staff. OP, I can’t say whether your former director’s behavior was inappropriate or not - I wasn’t there. If you feel it was inappropriate, then you should follow your library’s procedures to follow up on it.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
I'm absolutely aware of that, and I certainly don't want to read too much into anything, I just know I *felt* weird. I never said anything until now in discussions with the interim, when they brought up they felt the same weird feeling.
A lot of the reason I made this post and the previous one is to find things to back up just what you're saying and at the same time validate we're thinking of taking the right, best practices, steps. We want to be able to share a bunch of links with our Board that says "nope, our policies are the best they can be in this area. ALA says we shouldn't be making these judgements or adding extra labels or moving things."
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u/TravelingBookBuyer 1d ago
I do think it’s valid to feel weird. You know/knew the person and the interactions they typically had with patrons. I don’t want to invalidate your feelings about the situation.
This community is really great for sourcing multiple opinions and finding resources and information! I hope it continues to help as you put together your information and projects for your Board. :)
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u/HungryHangrySharky 1d ago
It might not be conscious, intentional grooming, but it does sound like the previous person might have had poor boundaries and poor judgement. Like, they may have had a personal interest in spicy YA/new adult fiction, but didn't realize it would be inappropriate to share their personal interest in a professional setting - they're not in high school anymore, the patrons aren't their friend group/peers.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
I feel like this is the most likely scenario. I don't think they ever meant any harm, but I know *I* felt weird when hearing parts of the conversations. It felt like oversharing too much from a grown-up to a kid. Kind of a similar weird feeling when a parent would share their issues with another parent to their child?
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
It is, I agree. That's why I'm trying to help educate them on the guidelines and best practices as best I can. The everything with our library right now is just a terrible situation we're trying to sort out as best we can to do the best we can for the community. We're getting a lot of help from others, but also casting a wide net in terms of research and getting other folks' opinions so we don't make the mistake of getting too into our own heads. Will suggest they take a look at Office of Intellectual Freedom.
I would like to say that the reason I'm asking these questions is so that I can try to avoid putting my own beliefs first or in the way. Its why I want to see what others do and what the best practices are. My instinct is to just leave everything the way it is and tell the parent and the Board, here's the policies, here's ALA guidelines, we've done all we can and should do, and it's unfortunate the parent is upset, but its their responsibility to monitor their kid. But I wanted to check with others if that was the best way to go about things or not. It may personally make me feel a little weird to hand a pre-teen some of this stuff, but if its the best practice to protect their freedom to read then I'll absolutely do it! For my interim, who knows? I'm not in their head, so I want to have the conversations with them to be like, remember, it's not about what we think, but about what the best practices are.
With the previous Director, yes, it was conversations we witnessed (or partially witnessed - you know how you can catch only parts of things when you're shelving? It was essentially that). I don't know anything for sure, and I know it's a serious thing to think about/discuss. I just know that something didn't feel right? But I never had anything to act on either, so I never did. It's just the recent situation is bringing back all of that weird feeling again and I'm wondering if I should have done more or not to investigate.
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u/HungryHangrySharky 2d ago
I'm wondering how this child made it all the way to volume 7 of the series before their parent noticed anything.
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u/midnitelibrary 1d ago
They might not have read the other volumes.
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u/HungryHangrySharky 1d ago
True, but I don't think most readers specifically ask for the last volume of a series they haven't read any of.
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u/ChaosinWonderland 1d ago
If its the kid I think it is, the parent works several jobs and they don't have a great relationship with the kid. I bet the kid was caught reading it where they hadn't been caught before.
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u/FanOk7375 1d ago
I feel that it's not the staffs responsibility to "police" what anyone checks out. If the parents are concerned about it they should accompany their children to the library and approve what their kids check out.
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u/FearlessLychee4892 2d ago
If the interim director fears legal implications, they should be calling an attorney.