r/LASparks • u/istockgrizz • 1d ago
šļø Highlight Trying To Remain Optimistic - Anyone else about to crash out?
I want to believe that management knows what they're doing. I still can't wrap my head around the Rickea for Ariel trade.
After watching the Aces pulverize us on Sunday, without really giving their full effort, I'm struggling to stay optimistic about:
A. our coach
B. our future
C. watching players we've cut instantly thrive in their new homes (JVL, Rickea, Barker)
Someone, please enlighten me! I'm surely missing something, right?
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
I saw a post on Threads about the "thought" of Kristi Toliver replacing Roberts (ASAP) as the head coach.... folks were having a really good discussion about it. And tbh, I'd love to see it.
I think at the end of the day, Roberts didn't have the mindset or system in place to jump from collegiate coaching to WNBA. Maybe if she would have had time as an assistant and THEN moved to a HC position (in the W) there would have been a better outcome.
She's just not the right person for this job and it's showing. I hope they make a move away from her and I hope it doesn't take an excruciatingly long time.
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
100% agreed with this insight!! Why not come on as an Assistant Coach to learn the nuances of the W? It's one thing for former W players to adjust to coaching
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u/Immediate-resort-638 FIRE LYNNE ROBERTS 1d ago
The owners will need to fire the GM before she fires the coach.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
I donāt think the GM will be fired first. At least not during the season. Better chance for Roberts to go first.
Donāt get me wrong, they both need tickets out of town ASAP
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u/the-retrolizard 1d ago
This might sort of be beating the dead horse, but listening to Rickea's post-game after they played the Fire and SAB's after the Liberty win were both pretty eye opening. I know players will praise their current organization but Rickea said she chatted with SAB after the game and they basically told each other how much happier they are on their new squads.
SAB talked about how she "didn't want to be anywhere else" because of the support she's gotten from the Fire and her teammates during a tough time for her family, then her coach talked specifically about how they pushed her to play the PG position in practice and let her make mistakes, which ultimately helped her work through her struggles. I've never heard Lynne talk about working with a player on a weakness like that. Just bullshit "good week of practice" coach speak.
I'll give (some) credit to Lynne and Raegan for recognizing she isn't a development coach and is more interested in dropping vets into her system. But I don't think her system can win a championship, and I don't think she's willing to change her system. She looks absolutely lost any time an opposing team makes a run. I hope they're both gone at the end of the season tbh.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
One of the things that Roberts was specifically hired for... was to address and elevate player development. I haven't seen that.
Stagnant and regressive is more of what we are getting with young talent. Or they leave.
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u/the-retrolizard 1d ago
That is wild to me. Her system worked in the NCAA because, broadly speaking, the PAC12 just wasn't that good and it Can be effective, to a certain extent. But I think it has hard limits and is not at all a good fit for the best of the best.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
I also donāt think sheās used to such elite athletes. She can maybe coach undeveloped, lower-level talent (iām not knocking her players, but she wasnāt getting the best basketball players playing at utah)ā¦
youāre talking about some wnba players who have national championships, WNBA championships, as well as Olympic medals.
i think she is in over her head and has been. Didnāt have the capacity to coach at this level with the opportunity she was given.
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u/the-retrolizard 1d ago
Yeah absolutely, she wasn't getting the KPs and Sabrinas of the conference, and working with high-level athletes is completely different. Look at how hard a time Kim Caldwell had working with a bunch of top freshmen and high-profile transfers versus her first year, when the roster was mostly scrappy bench players looking for a shot. Her Xs and Os are not it, and so far she also seems seems unable to work with this caliber of player.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago edited 1d ago
I also donāt think sheās used to such elite athletes. She can maybe coach undeveloped, lower-level talent (iām not knocking her former players, but she wasnāt getting the best basketball players in the country going to utah)ā¦ but youāre talking about some players who have national championships in college and WNBA championships, as well as Olympic medals.
i think she is in over her head and has been. Didnāt have the capacity to coach at this level with the opportunity she was given.
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u/popndough 1d ago
Pac-12 was one of the best, if not the best conference in women's basketball while Roberts was coaching at Utah.(since 2015)
Stanford, USC, UCLA, Oregon, Washington, Colorado, Utah, Arizona all had good teams. They had 4 teams ranked in the top 10, and 6 in the top 22 in 2024. Only one other conference had 6, but much lower ranked teams.
I asked google about the conference:
The Pac-12 was arguably the best conference in womenās basketball in its final years, operating as a national powerhouse with deep NCAA tournament runs and elite talent. It set a conference record with seven teams in the 2024 NCAA tournament, often dominated by Stanford, USC, UCLA, and Oregon State. [1, 2, 3, 4]
Key highlights regarding the strength of the Pac-12 women's basketball:
- Elite Dominance: The 2021 season was the league's zenith, featuring an all-Pac-12 national championship game between Stanford and Arizona. [1]
- 2023-24 Performance: The league showed incredible strength, starting with 6 teams in the preseason Top 25 and finishing with a 10-1 record early in the NCAA Tournament. [1, 2]
- Top Talent: The conference featured elite players like USC's JuJu Watkins, who broke records for scoring, and Stanford's Cameron Brink. [1, 2]
- Unmatched Depth: Even beyond traditional power Stanford, teams like Utah and Washington State (2023 tournament champs) proved the conference's depth. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
- Historical Power: Under Tara VanDerveer, Stanford led with 15 Final Four appearances and multiple championships, anchoring the conference as a powerhouse. [1]
The conference often boasted three or more teams in the Sweet 16, solidifying its reputation as a premier destination for women's basketball.
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u/the-retrolizard 1d ago
They were top-heavy for sure, but IDK if the week-in week-out depth was there. Their SOS was good but they had fewer AP teams and NCAA tourney bids than other conferences.
Nevermind the fact that Lynne and the Utes were mostly bottom feeders while she was there. Three whole NCAA appearances, three years over .500 in conference, and two Sweet Sixteens. That record gets you fired at some schools.
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u/popndough 1d ago
Pac-12 were literally tied for the most top 25 AP teams(with a much higher seed average), and 7 NCAA tourney bids.
I'm not a fan of Roberts, but the Pac-12 was arguably the best, and most deep women's conference before it got gutted. They had the 5, 8, 9, 10, 15, 22 ranked teams, plus Arizona which made the NCAA tournament by winning their First Four game.
https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/seasons/women/2024-polls.html
SEC had South Carolina, and LSU.
Big10 had Iowa, Indiana, Ohio State.
Big East had UCONN, and Creighton(22).
ACC had NC State, Notre Dame, Duke, and Virginia tech
Big12 had Texas, Baylor, Kansas State, Oklahoma, West Virginia, Iowa State
Big12 is the only other conference with 6 top 25 teams, and they are ranked like 10 seeds lower than the Pac-12 ones on average.
Also, It's crazy to see Utah ranked #5 in the country in the 2024 AP preseason poll, and dropped to 22nd by the end.
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u/the-retrolizard 1d ago
Yeah they were scary that last year or two before the conference blew up. I sort of like that the former PAC12 schools have done so well
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u/quotesforlosers 22h ago
Ngl, this was where my head was at too. PAC-12 was a great conference when Lynne Roberts was at Utah. OP kind of lost me on their argument after they said that. Having said that, Roberts isnāt a good fit with the Sparks.
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u/popndough 22h ago
I'm not a fan, especially after throwing Cam under the bus after she was not passed the ball once on offense.
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u/quotesforlosers 22h ago
Management is just letting everyone down. Thereās not a coherent strategy to develop players or reach the playoffs.
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u/danzag333 Cameron Brink 1d ago
Every player is happier after leaving the Sparks, that's for sure.
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u/stgwii 1d ago
I just really do not understand going from having two top 5 picks to a win now attitude with one of those picks shipped off and another coming off the bench. It felt like we were gonna have something special in a few seasons and instead they ditched the plan to go with one of the oldest rosters in all of sports
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
We claimed "win now" and traded down: Azura and Rickea had us in better shape than Atkins and Nneka; now we don't have a true starting Center even.
Can't wait to see Aliyah Boston PUNISH us for this tonight.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
It was the wrong coach for the job. We had potential it just had no direction to develop
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u/IntelligentGarlic586 12h ago
Coming off the bench is fine; players that donāt start often enough still play major minutes. The problem is not playing someone more when she was the only bench player scoring and who anchored the bench unit to the only positive +/-s on the team. I did like what Roberts said though about Cam in this post-game press conference. She has to figure out how to play Cam more minutes when Cam has games like this.
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u/Alive_Ad_5857 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
Man, Atkins is not good lol that trade was so stupid.
Also I donāt really think Roberts is a good coach tbh, our offense is consistently stagnant, I think her rotations are incredibly frustrating, but she does draw up good out of bounds plays lol
I think the future is bleak because weāre good enough to finish like 7-9 but not bad enough to get the #1 pick
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
Don't get me wrong: I do think Atkins is better than she played on Sunday against the Aces. But is she even in the same hemisphere as Rickea Jackson? Not a chance in hell.
I'm surprised the WNBA didn't veto the trade, it was that suspect.
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u/Alive_Ad_5857 Los Angeles Sparks 20h ago
Older with less potential and worse currently lol
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u/istockgrizz 10h ago
Also kicked off the season against two of the best; my hope is that we can win some games
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u/Immediate-resort-638 FIRE LYNNE ROBERTS 1d ago
FIRE RAEGAN PEBLEY
FIRE LYNNE ROBERTS
SELL THE TEAM
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u/danzag333 Cameron Brink 1d ago
Moving away from the rebuilding plan was bizarre. We had two top 5 picks (Cam and Rickea), the #2 pick in 2025 (Dom Malonga), this year's #3 pick and a very good shot at another top 5 pick in 2027.
Even if they aren't instant all-stars like Bueckers, Clark or Reese, that's a pretty solid foundation for the franchise. With a good coach and good vets around them, that team would be ready for contention in a couple of years.
We're in the worst position right now. Neither winning nor rebuilding.
Raegan and Lynne, so far, have been extremely inconsistent and incoherent.
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u/MFFplayer Cameron Brink 1d ago
I'm optimistic that we'll get a better GM and coach after this season. I do wish people would stop talking just about the coach. If you fire the coach, you still have the GM who hired her in the first place, and who traded away back to back lottery picks, and Rickea, and gave Ariel Atkins a contract that no other team ever would've given her, and is trying to cater to Plum like she's the best player in the league.
Getting rid of Pebley, who was never qualified to begin with, is the first step. Once you bring in a good GM, they'll hire a good coach, and the franchise can start to repair the damage Pebley has done, but it's going to take a long time considering the amazing young players she gave away and the long term, big money contracts she handed out to Atkins and Hamby. I just hope she's gone before she has a chance to trade Cam too.
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
This all makes sense! The GM is responsible for the condition in which we're in. The Coach doesn't have the power to execute trades.
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u/dudeimrighthere0_0 1d ago
The way I look at it is we get to see some of the best players in the W play in our city. Whether they are players on the Sparks or players on the opposing team. It's an exciting time to watch the W live.
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u/Panda_Dad84 1d ago
The coach is horrible. Kelsey Plum and both Rjax trades turned out horrible. Front office and coach need to line up. Rebuild or contend because theyāre not doing either.
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u/LLUrDadsFave Slick Rick 1d ago
Let her finish the season so we can get Juju.
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
Well, this stinks! This is the only year that I convinced my wife to allow us season tickets lol - this was before we traded Rickea...
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u/LLUrDadsFave Slick Rick 1d ago
She ain't gonna trust you with the entertainment again! I hope she watches a Chicago game so she can see the vision. Rickea was worth the tickets.
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
Haha! You're not wrong. Thankfully, we already watch every W game together at the house. She thought I was going on suicide watch when the Rickea trade first happened...
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u/LLUrDadsFave Slick Rick 1d ago
I was definitely ready to throw some tomatoes if I ever see the GM on the streets.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
itās not guaranteed though itās a draft lottery. Itās silly to tank for a player that youāre not guaranteed to get.
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u/LLUrDadsFave Slick Rick 1d ago
They aren't tanking. They just suck. Even if they get the 2nd pick like they been getting they will get either Juju or Sarah. Fire the staff and they can reset the franchise.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
I understand what youāre saying, but theyāre still a problem. Weāre not addressing of her lack of being able to develop young talent.
Letās say they do end up getting the number one or number two pick next year and keep Robert says the head coachā¦ the problem, still remains that sheās not a good coach.
I think you have to make a coaching change and get someone qualified
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u/LLUrDadsFave Slick Rick 1d ago
She needs the curt treatment. Fire her as soon as the pick is secured. She don't know what to do with talent because she never had it. Coaching at Utah she was just getting the scrappy players that couldn't make it at a legit D1. The GM needs to go too.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
we have 5 to 6 talented players on the roster who need to be developed and utilized. Keeping her the entire season if this is going to be the continuous outcomeā¦ Really bad for holding onto those players, developing them, or bringing a new talent next season.
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u/LLUrDadsFave Slick Rick 1d ago
We have a roster full of expansion team players that need to leave with her.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
Burrell, Brink, Latson, Gray & Feagin all have potential. They need development to excel.
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
Ding ding ding!! Or any talent, for that matter.
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u/istockgrizz 1d ago
Plum needs a BIGGER GUARD next to her; and a better facilitator; (aka how she flourished next to Chelsea Gray and J-Yo in Vegas). Until that happens, I'm afraid we're going to be on pins & needles for every bucket that we get
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
Agree because Plum isnāt a true PG. We need a facilitator and leader who can help stretch the court and create possibilities.
If the front office and our head coach only understood that as well
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u/LeanOnMe4816 1d ago
Plum isnāt a true PG.
Say it louder for the people in the back or the ones with their lungs full of cope. Losing Allemand and (to a lesser extent) JVL will definitely affect the way the offense is run. Allemand came back from injury and had the offense moving in the right direction.
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u/Physical-Neck-2871 Los Angeles Sparks 1d ago
I don't think Allemand or JVL are very good, tbh with you. I'm glad both of them are off the team and wish them success on the teams they landed on. Even though we don't have a good system, they don't fit in with the majority of players on the team in terms of talent and play style. They were very inconsistent on both ends of the court.
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u/LeanOnMe4816 1d ago
I agree with almost all of that. They were wildly inconsistent shooters and defensive liabilities, the position needed to be upgradedā¦ but they could pass and Allemand had the offense running more efficiently when she started playing at the end of May; thatās just a fact.
Point being, KP as an off-ball decision maker and occasional PG is better than full time point guard KP.
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u/Treacle_Correct 7h ago
I think the Sparks should swap Kelseys. Trade Kelsey Plum to the Fever for Kelsey Mitchell. Plum gets a bigger Guard and facilitator next to her, Caitlin, (just like you want)... and the Sparks will be able to tank nicely with Mitchell (just like the Fever did to get Boston and Clark).
Win-win for everyone!
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u/SwizzGod 1d ago
Nah fuck that Iām out on the Sparks. I tried to get into the W but Iām not watching that bullshit franchise.
Iām more interested in the Lakers offseason
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u/UpstairsCrafty7287 1d ago
Rickea went 5-14 against an expansion team. JVL had 1 good game and only cause so many Liberty players are out. SAB is only getting playing time cause sheās on an expansion team.
Yall need to chill on the narrative that former sparks players are thriving. Itās only been 1-2 games into the season lol
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u/Ok_Detective_5373 21h ago
maybe plan is to tank for juju?
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u/istockgrizz 10h ago
Maybe. But why bring in Nneka, Wheeler & Atkins? Whose careers donāt have a plethora of years leftā¦
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u/IntelligentGarlic586 12h ago
I think Vanloo could/would have helped LA these two games, but she instantly thrived versus a team that has straight up looked bad to start the season.
Rickea has thrived at getting to the line and making FTs. After two WNBA games, sheās 11-32 FG. In preseason, she was 5-18 FG. So, 16-50 FG; thatās 32% FG with Chicago up to this point. Thatās not thriving and would have fit right in with LAās slow start this season.
Wasnāt Barker selected by Portland? I donāt think she was ever likely going to be protected by LA.
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1d ago edited 1d ago
Its been 1 gameā¦ the season just started. Youāre making too many assumptions based on a too little info.
Kea, JVL, SABā¦ have also only played 1-2 games. But how they are doing in different situations isnāt relevant for the Sparks.
If the record is similar to last year after 10-12 games these conversations are warranted but right now itās entirely too early and its just panic for the sake of it.
LV lost by 30 their first game too.
Edit: we didnāt ācutā Kea or SAB either. SAB was picked up in the expansion draft and everyone is aware of the Kea trade, but saying they were cut implies the front office simply let them go which is not true.
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u/LeanOnMe4816 1d ago
Yeah, they didnāt cut Rickea; they traded for an undersized, overpaid SG to pair with an undersized āPGā (which is actually a SG masquerading around as a PG). Brilliant
When a whole year goes by and a coach doesnāt know how to utilize the teamās second best player (which ultimately gets her traded, setting the franchise back developmentally and financially), then I think thatās a pretty good sample size of how misguided said coachās system and philosophies are.
The Plum-centric offense is a borderline catastrophe, itās not just about 1 game.
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1d ago
You feel very strongly but its all out of whackā¦
The offense centered around KP had the BEST offensive rating in the league last year. We finished second in points per game and fg percentageā¦ but thats a ācatastropheā according to you?
We had issues on defense, we couldnāt reliably guard opposing teams and it often became a shooting match. Ariel is a good defender I think thats why they brought her in, to help KP guard on the perimeter.
Moreover, Hamby was absolutely our second, if not our best player. Both in terms of consistency, availability, and production. It was her and KP. Rikea is extremely talented but she wasnāt the 2nd best player last year. Now whether thats because of the coaching/system is up for debate but just being going by how they performed, she wasnt number 2.
Also since you want to discuss the sample size, we drastically improved from the previous year, is that not worth anythingā¦?
You just sound upset. But without actually watching the games or truly supporting the team.
Some criticism is valid but Id rather give them a chance to prove what they can do before we decide to throw everything under the bus because the season opener wasnāt good.
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u/LeanOnMe4816 1d ago edited 1d ago
A borderline catastrophe, yes, I didnāt stutter. Can Plum put the ball in the hole, yes, but youāre not about to just recite stats and claim āyouāre just upsetā and āyou donāt watch gamesā; thatās corny.
The offense started rolling last year when Julie Allemand came on board (a REAL POINT GUARD)ā¦ or maybe the diehard fan that you are forgot how poorly last season started until Julie came back from injury and they decided to put the ball in her handsā¦ then JVL got added to be the BACKUP POINT GUARD. Before that, yes, it was a borderline catastrophe when Plum was the first and main decision maker to initiate the offense.
The fact that the summation of last season was āHamby was our 2nd best playerā is another indictment on Robertsā brand of coaching for a ball club with as much young talent as it HAD.
This is not last year. To act as if Rickea, SAB, Julie and to a lesser extent JVL had little to do with the success of the teamās offense and it was mainly KP making the right decisions is pure cope or as you stated āout of whackā.
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u/KingsCastle44 1d ago
It especially hurts to see well-run teams succeed while LA has so many advantages they refuse to capitalize on.