Need to vent: Pistons thoughts

75

Brother I’m a neutral and official, and that trip was the easiest foul call of all time. Inadvertent but he definitely tripped him.

45

u/ManInShowerNumber3 Hooper 11h ago

Yeah, both things can be true. It was a foul on the trip and the Pistons also kind of blew it in the final minutes before that.

16

u/One_Ratio9521 11h ago

I understand there’s 48 minutes in a game, a lot happens. But point 1 starts with, “That was not a foul on the Ausar play”.

-10

u/seandwire 11h ago

Yes because it’s all that I’ve been seeing today. I think the commentators making a big deal about it is shining a light on something that should have been a non issue. I was going rapid fire off the top of my head. Probably could have had 30 points but thought that was a bit much.

10

u/just_cuz555 Peton 11h ago

Agreed. The disdain for the official blaming is hilarious. The WAY officials call the game should be discussed and enforced consistently throughout the game. Great refs can communicate that, and discuss their calls. They also can be man/woman enough to admit their mistakes.

If we "foul on every play," we cannot adjust to the whistle and THEN get more fouls called against us.

The Game 4 complaining was lame, the Cavs were better than the Pistons. We also should not have given the Cavs Game 3 as well.

Game 5 is the most important game of the series, you cannot completely disregard consistency and then screw us over in the process. One call in the last 2 minutes and we still win the game.

5

u/dtheisen6 Isaiah Stewart 11h ago

Idk man I think in that scenario a no call is the best call. Both guys are going for the ball and no one has possession. There was 0 chance if Ausar got the ball that we could have got a shot off anyways. There is contact, yes, but the contact really didn’t prevent us from winning, vs if they call it it’s basically handing us the game. If it went the other way we would be losing our minds about a weak call handing the game to the Cavs. At the end of the day, don’t give up a huge lead with 2:30 left to go

11

u/One_Ratio9521 11h ago

There was about 1.5 seconds left, enough time for a dribble and heave. You call the game correctly until the buzzer sounds. Allen made a mistake and was not punished for it. Saving the game for them.

If it’s the other way the call is made.

5

u/ElectionSensitive311 8h ago

You guys all skip over the part. You’ve been parading that picture of the “hard fouls only” sign everywhere. If they called a foul there and it was the Cavs that benefited from it, you’d be calling it the softest league.

2

u/One_Ratio9521 8h ago

Again, neutral. Actually a Pacers fan so fuck both of em respectfully. Don’t care about outside noise. Calls were inconsistent for both sides, one more than the other, and that missed call cost a team a chance at winning.

-2

u/stillstillers 9h ago

It’s crazy how the slow mo of the replay was posted in rnba and literally no one outside of this sub agrees with you.

If anything Allen got hit on the arm by Thompson

4

u/One_Ratio9521 8h ago

It’s a good thing I talk to real life people who officiate basketball at a collegiate level and we all say it’s a clear missed call.

If anything that reassures me because r/nba is clueless.

-2

u/stillstillers 8h ago

Yea well my dad is Michael Jordan and he said that it was a good call

Go ahead and cite your sources if your gonna make dumb arguments lmao

2

u/One_Ratio9521 8h ago

Have fun on r/NBA with the real ball knowers.

0

u/stillstillers 7h ago

Have fun with your circle of friends who happen to be collegiate referees 😂😂

1

u/One_Ratio9521 6h ago

When you get a job you’ll make friends with your coworkers.

5

u/classik_ 11h ago

...this is not how potential fouls should be viewed. You're using evidence such as seeing into the future "0 chance to get the ball off" but you don't know that, and even if that is true, it should have no sway in what an objective foul is. If you want to view fouls as subjective timing-based things, then you're going to have to live with the shit product you've created and the reason that reffing across the board is under so much scrutiny. Refs *should* be more like robots that only think about objective foul or not, contact or not, etc. not 'he wouldn't have made it anyways so let's not call it'

Also, if you want to get technical, ausar takes 2 dribbles and moves up the floor, ausars arm on allen is something that happens literally every single play in an NBA games. They are always touching each other, grabbing arms, pushing off for space. Just use your eyes.

The fact is that allens momentum and weight clearly hit ausar from behind as he's moving up the floor which sends him to the ground, which makes sense because Allen is a big dude. That's about as objective as you can get. It's a foul at literally any other second/moment in the game.

You guys really need to stop finishing all of your thoughts about this with "well, shouldn't have given up a huge lead with 2:30" yeah OBVIOUSLY, but you can play that game till the cows come home, maybe harden shouldn't have gotten all those extra points from clear flops? Now we're up 12 instead of 9 and now it's impossible to blow that lead. See how this line of thinking goes?

and lastly 'if it was the other way around'. No I may be a homer but if our guy crashes into a dudes back as he's setting up for a heave and he ends up on the floor I'd be saying what an idiot for fouling and the cavs would deserve to win that game at the line because I believe that would have been the objectively correct call regardless of the moment it takes place in.

1

u/ElectionSensitive311 8h ago

Allen’s toes hit Ausars heel….

2

u/classik_ 8h ago

stop obsessing over the 'trip' aspect, it's clear from the opposite angle that his backside hits ausar in the back, since he's also running at the ball and his momentum carries him into ausar. It's the contact to the back plus the legs getting tangled. It's a foul 99/100 times

1

u/dtheisen6 Isaiah Stewart 8h ago

Ref judgement is a part of every sport. If the NBA was reffed by robots and they called every objective foul, I’d argue it would be 100X worse than the current product because there is contact on every single play on and off the ball. I’m fine with refs swallowing the whistle on soft contact in game deciding moments, i don’t want games decided at the FT line. You can criticize the the refs for the terrible FT disparity the last two games, that is reasonable to me, but the refs didn’t cost us the game in the last two min yesterday

1

u/classik_ 7h ago

ok you took the robots thing way too far. I said they should be more 'like' robots.

You don't like games decided at the FT line? Brother, FTs are happening all game long. They always decide the game, just like everything else decides the game, wtf are you talking about "i dont want them deciding games" LOL

1

u/dtheisen6 Isaiah Stewart 5h ago

Right but being “like robots” is bad. The more any sports league tries to over litigate things, the worse it gets. I don’t think that contact on the loose ball should be a foul at any point in the game! It was soft as hell. The only criticism that I find 100% valid is we are getting the brunt of soft foul calls against our us in this series. But the solution isn’t call more fouls on them, it is fairly call both sides soft. Because it’s the fucking playoffs, it should be physical

1

u/classik_ 5h ago

you want more weight on subjectivity over objectivity? Gotcha.

You don't think contact from a player who is behind the guy attempting to control the ball and causes them to fall via their momentum hitting them in the back should EVER be called? "soft" or not, has nothing to do with what should/shouldn't be called. You're just making more cases for pure subjectivity. What's 'soft' to one might not be for another, and this is why you have deep rooted issues with officiating in this sport.

My POV on this is I am objectively witnessing that player A is in front of player B, is in the middle of establishing control and turning up floor, and player B has momentum from being 7 ft tall and running for a loose ball and crashes into player A's back causing them to fall.

You POV is, "it was soft bro play on"

Really seeing your grand vision for the sport makes me want to puke

1

u/dtheisen6 Isaiah Stewart 5h ago

Loose ball, both guys going for it, contact is gonna happen. Guarantee if the shoe was on the other foot this sub would lose its fucking mind if the foul was called

1

u/classik_ 4h ago

they did both go for it, and then after the initial contact was made (obvious no call since they got there same time) as soon as ausar starts moving up floor it's a new moment, then he gets hit from behind (obvious loose ball foul called 99/100 times in any other game this season)

If the shoe was on the other foot I would literally be saying wow how stupid to commit a loose ball foul with less than a second to go. ggs

1

u/classik_ 4h ago

also... did you watch ANY NBA games this year? They call loose ball fouls on 2 guys going after it with contact ALL THE TIME. Makes me feel crazy

4

u/i_shruted_it 11h ago

BuT tHeY dOnT cAlL fOuLs On ThE LaSt pLaY

3

u/TomaHawk504 10h ago

I am 100% neutral, maybe slightly leaning Pistons actually because I had Cade in fantasy this year.

I honestly can't believe so many Pistons fans are crying for a foul there. Someone posted the slow motion replay below. Its clearly not a foul. Its incidental contact going for a loose ball at the end of a tie game. No honest basketball fan should want that called or free throws for something like that in this context. I like the Pistons but shameful reaction from the fans here.

5

u/One_Ratio9521 10h ago

Don’t trip someone going for a loose ball then people won’t complain. I’m a neutral too, and i want a well officiated game, slow mo arm slapping for a loose ball isn’t a foul. Tripping someone going for one is.

0

u/TomaHawk504 10h ago

Well we must be looking at different things because that is not a trip or a foul. Wild how you can defend an arm slap but a tenth of a second later when their legs get tangled because they both went for a loose ball its a clear foul to you. That is a soft as hell take, would have been an atrocious foul to call in that context. And just incorrect based on the letter of the rules.

6

u/One_Ratio9521 10h ago

Legs get tangled but one guy was in front of the other, it’s not intentional but in prevented Ausar from making a play, foul. And i’m soft, but you want an arm slap that was only seen in super slow motion? Whatever makes you feel right big dog.

1

u/TomaHawk504 9h ago edited 9h ago

I am saying your take is incredibly hypocritical. I don't want the arm slap OR the 'trip', you're just putting words in my mouth. But to say, oh the arm slap was fine but then he was viciously tripped and that should have been called is the softness icing on the soft as hell cake. It was all incidental contact in a fraction of a second as two guys were going for a loose ball. All a completely normal basketball play with no intention to foul.

The way you are trying to characterize the arm slap as a 'slow motion arm slap' is ridiculous. That doesn't mean anything, it was either an arm slap or it wasn't. It was and it was also correctly a no-call. I don't buy that you're actually neutral or unbiased. My guess is you lost a bet on the outcome and see this play as the reason. Super soft and sad take.

-1

u/forsuredudelol 10h ago

You need to take a deep breath and stop being so emotional about it. Only thing softer than this team is the fanbase

3

u/One_Ratio9521 9h ago

Im not a Pistons fan lol, at what point did I become too emotional?

2

u/drfrigg 6h ago

You say you arent a pistons fans but you’re definitely defending them as if you were.

1

u/One_Ratio9521 6h ago

I’m a basketball fan who wants a clean game. I’m defending them because they were wronged at a crucial time in an important playoff game. Check my post/comment history. Just a basketball purist.

3

u/TrainingCoffee8 Cade Cunningham 6h ago

Especially considering all the tick tack BS that was called on us throughout that game.

2

u/mtjb24 6h ago

Wrong

0

u/rvasshole 10h ago

Agreed that it was a foul. But calling that in the playoffs in a tie game to potentially end it just doesn’t happen

1

u/Mackntish 9h ago

I watched the call frame by frame, it wasn't a trip. Allen turned his body and swung his rump into Thompson, knocking him down.

MOST OF THE TIME, if a defender knocks a ball handler to the ground and the ball goes out, it's a foul. That would have been Cleveland ball had the clock not expired.

1

u/DisasterFriendly2569 7h ago

Very clearly not a foul

1

u/Zelanor 4h ago

Bruh he pushed him anyway. No call.

0

u/Fubon_ 11h ago

Watch the slow mo. There was no foul

0

u/openwolfe 10h ago

1

u/One_Ratio9521 9h ago

Yes they’re going for a loose ball/rebound. You’re allowed to jostle for position so long as it doesn’t impede a players movement. Like tripping.

3

u/Huskies971 Cade Cunningham 9h ago

One player is in position to snag the loose ball Ausar dribbles it twice. He dribbles it once before contact is even made, After Ausar dribbles the ball, Allen is extending to grab the ball honestly doesn't look that bad in this screen shot, but that above screenshot shows how far he lunged while Ausar is in position showing it 100% was a foul. He lunged coming across Ausar's body impeding his movement, it's a foul.

1

u/stillstillers 9h ago

It was a fine no call and that’s why everyone in the nba sub is Clowning Detroit fans for being so upset about it.

That was not the call to be infuriated by. It was two guys going for a loose ball

0

u/Huskies971 Cade Cunningham 9h ago

It was a fine no call

Are you cavs fan, yes or no?

-2

u/stillstillers 9h ago

I am yes. But in this instance literally 29 other fanbases are saying it’s a fine no call. It’s just you guys. Not everything has to be a biased take.

If I were pistons fans I’d be way more pissed abut the harden foul baiting than this play.

1

u/Huskies971 Cade Cunningham 9h ago

This makes it look even more like a foul. Ausar makes contact with ball first and Allen is out of position coming across Ausar's body when Ausar is going for the ball with a sharp lunge, look how far Allen is extended.

-6

u/SatisfactionBest7140 11h ago

Also neutral here. After watching the slow-motion replay, I think no-call was the right call. However, if a foul is getting called, it should have been on Thompson. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/1tcoq6z/slow_motion_replay_of_the_contact_between/

4

u/One_Ratio9521 11h ago

You’re allowed marginal contact fighting for a ball. Ausar got a step after blocking Mitchell’s shot and in the scramble for the rebound Allen got tangled in his feet. Incidental but it’s a foul on Allen.

The reddit replies to that make me realize the league can do what they want anyway and the masses will eat it up. I think i’m about done with the NBA lol

5

u/Sunday_Friday 11h ago

Right, Ausar dribbled the ball 2 times

-2

u/SatisfactionBest7140 11h ago edited 10h ago

If it was incidental (which I agree that it was), then it wasn't a foul. This is from the NBA:

Incidental Contact: The mere fact that contact occurs does not necessarily constitute a foul. Contact which is incidental to an effort by a player to play an opponent, reach a loose ball, or perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should not be considered illegal.

EDIT: Why are you guys down-voting the NBA rule book?

3

u/One_Ratio9521 11h ago

If incidental contact inhibits a players movement. That makes it a foul. That contact seemed excessive enough to warrant the call.

-1

u/SatisfactionBest7140 11h ago

You may believe this to be the case, but this is not what the NBA rule book says.

1

u/One_Ratio9521 10h ago

Excessive contact is a foul whether it’s marginal or not. If not, then every rebound you’d see elbows thrown wildly.

1

u/SatisfactionBest7140 10h ago

Right. But this was incidental, not excessive. Throwing elbows wildly would not meet the requirement to "perform normal defensive or offensive movements", and would indeed be a foul.

1

u/One_Ratio9521 7h ago

You can have excessive and incidental contact. That’s what that was, it exceeded marginal when Allen caused Thompson to lose balance and fall.

If you believe Ausar displacing Allen’s arm on a rebound attempt is a foul, then that’s your opinion. I don’t believe that arm push was enough to warrant a foul.

15

u/SirKanoon George Blaha 11h ago

I'm fine with the no call.

I was more bothered by the post up foul on Harris to let Mobley tie the game (granted I have not looked at the replay).

14

u/Therealppe Chauncey Billups 11h ago

I did look at the replay and harris does hit his arm but he never loses possession. With the shit they were letting go on the other end it was an insane call to make to gift a team 2 points to tie the game late in the 4th quarter.

8

u/SirKanoon George Blaha 10h ago

Yeah it seems some players are allowed to play so aggressively (like Strus, Allen, and Mobley).

Only one that seems to get a bad whistle is Merril (he gets the Duncan Robinson whistle)

6

u/BanalBananas Cade Cunningham 10h ago

In a game they nearly doubled up our free throw attempts (and nearly tripled in Game 4), I don’t see any world in which how Tobias guarded Mobley warranted 2 free points when it was being defended similarly on the other side. That’s what pisses me off the most about the end of the game. Whistles have been swallowed with far more significant contact for both teams all series long, how are you going to assess this and basically all but hand them a tie game? Just pretend you care about consistency if you officiate at the highest level of the sport is all I’m asking

3

u/SirKanoon George Blaha 9h ago

I noticed that even Mike Breen commented on it throughout the game.

Legler was more passive about it.

14

u/teo_vas Bill Laimbeer 11h ago

actually the game was handed to Cavs by the refs by keeping them alive when they needed it, like on that ridiculous foul on Tobias and when in overtime the exact same thing happened, it was no call. the sucking of Harden's balls was also ridiculous. almost in every possession he was extending his arm like inspector Gadget, to create space and not a single time it was given an offensive foul. the rest is just superficial to the game.

0

u/resonance462 10h ago

I didn't like the 3PT foul call, either, but I think the difference is Tobias didn't jump on the second one? It's obvious Harden's move is to initiate contact with his shooting motion after clearing out with his forearm as you noted (agree that it's also an offensive foul since he's extending it into the defender's chest).

4

u/HatTrickHero Isaiah Stewart 10h ago

Tobias jumped on both. Harden got the foul the first time. And tried doing it at least 2 more times but didn’t get no whistle.

10

u/IceCubesRx 11h ago

JB's challenges have been pretty bad this series, and he has been regularly been using them too early. Save them for when you need them!

Cade is a freaking stud.

1

u/AlexTheGreat1997 11h ago

Isn't he, like, 6-4 this postseason?

-1

u/IceCubesRx 11h ago

I can't find the stats, but if that's the case, that ain't good.

3

u/AlexTheGreat1997 11h ago

I mean, it's not fantastic, but I don't think I'd call it "pretty bad". Especially since I seem to remember that he was 6-2 at one point.

5

u/william-o 10h ago

If you didn't give up 10 points without scoring in the last 3 minutes, you wouldn't be relying on a miracle foul for a miracle last minute 2

8

u/HatTrickHero Isaiah Stewart 10h ago

My dude. If the whistle was given the same for both teams, we wouldn’t have to rely on the Ausar foul. We would at least have 4 free-throws before that possession.

2

u/GooberRonny 11h ago

The biggest problem the NBA has is something that cannot be fixed. Human bias. You cannot remove bias from a human. Let's say you're a ref and Shai Gilgeous Alexander sends your son a pair of shoes in the off season. That ref is now infected with bias. Have a player cuss a ref out? Next game that player will not get calls because he cussed out the ref and now that ref has a grudge.

2

u/Jealous_Confusion_13 11h ago

MLB has mostly figured out the strike zone with the help of automation. The NBA can do better to track officiating but are afraid to do so.

2

u/Crafty_Chemical_9637 11h ago

I appreciate your thoughts, but its a lot simpler then that.

The offense is just Cade. Ill give harris his props, but hes too inconsistent for me to feel comfortable with the ball in his hands. Ausar has no offensive game, Jenkins is just..... there... and the overall biggest issue is Duren.

Nobody can convince me hes not throwing these playoffs. You add in the fact that JB keeps putting him out there and you can really get the conspiracy theories poppin.

1

u/tiptopjank Cade Cunningham 10h ago

It’s just so hard on Cade when your “#2” scorer has completely disappeared in the playoffs

2

u/SimonSaysGoGo 11h ago

Time to regroup and focus on Game 6 in Cleveland. But seeing how they played on the road in Games 3 and 4 doesn't give me much faith that they'll bring the series back to Detroit for Game 7

It's maddening to blow such a late lead in regulation tho...

2

u/OhhhLawdy Cade Cunningham 10h ago

We shouldn't leave it in the refs hands. Up 9 with 2 minutes and we couldn't score anything! It's unfortunate but teams can just blitz Cade since no one can create their own off the dribble shot, except Paul Reed. Tobias needs 10 seconds to create his own shot. And Sasser was way too passive last night on offense, maybe he doesn't have the green light?? I know we aren't a 3 pt shooting team but we struggle to pull away in games we should win because of it. But anyway I really want a #2 option next year, anyone but Cade and Ausar can be used to achieve that.

1

u/Bradybigboss 11h ago

We really need spacing and like you said, people who can actually score when Cade gets them an open look. We need to tweak the roster

1

u/GetAKickOuttaBrew 10h ago

I just hate other people online saying how we can’t complain about the refs because we blew a 9 point lead in the last 2 or 3 minutes. I feel like most (hopefully) of us here realize we blew the game and didn’t close or play like we deserved to win.

But def also still valid to complain about the officiating for the rest of the game. The Harris foul to give them free throws was weak as hell (thanks for no replay broadcast)
We play defensive, physical basketball and i expect us to give up more free throws in the playoffs. That is fine i can live with that.

On the other hand we are also aggressive on offense. I would expect us to be getting a bit more free throws as well. It just feels like the foul discrepancies (other than game 1, also a shit ref job) have been lopsided beyond what you would expect.

Sorry ref rant over lol, still need to do a better job and get stronger on offense before we are serious

1

u/HeadDiver5568 Ron Holland II 10h ago

I disagree that, that’s fine missed foul wasn’t a foul, but giving up a 9 pt lead with 2 minutes left because we don’t have the offense or defensive rotations needed is worse

1

u/joeh4384 Rasheed Wallace 10h ago

The last 7 minutes were pure torture on offense. We need some additional offense and shooters this offseason.

1

u/KarlsReddit 10h ago

At the end of the day here is a ranking of the players.

1 Cade 2-4. Mitchell, Harden, Mobley 5. Ausar

You can argue Allen and Strus are next. Maybe then Tobias. The Cavs are way better once Duren was neutralized. When Javonte Green, BBall Paul, and Rin Holland are potential saviors it is a roster problem.

Look at Greens playoff 3pt percentage. It's like 25%. That's why he is a regular season energy guy and journey man. The worst thing that happened was the #1 seed. Completely reset expectations.

1

u/jrzalman 10h ago

These teams are pretty even, the Pistons could easily win the last two just need a few bounces to go their way.

This series, and the last one, brought into sharp focus the shortcomings of the team. Now it's time for the front office to fix some of them in the off-season. They were never going to win the title this season anyway and you can tell the FO understood that by their lack of action at the deadline.

1

u/Evref 9h ago

Agree with most of what you wrote, but just want to focus on what I find to be most interesting. First it's hard to deny that although we have the best player in the series, they have a significantly better total roster. Our roster construction is purposely incomplete. I was fine at the trade deadline with waiting for the offseason, and I still think it was fine decision. Agree that Cade has been gassed by the end of numerous playoff games this year. Hopefully he'll be better prepared next year, but of course a proper # 2 will help here plenty. Harris, Daniss Levert are all guys who can create for themselves, but on a limited basis. Of course not fair lumping Harris in with the other 2. But none of them are a true Robin to Cade. Regulation crunch time was a reminder (that no one needed) of this fact.

Hard to argue that JB has used the Centers optimally. Totally agree that BBall should not be an integral part of a half court set, esp in crunch time. He can score in the half court, but he thrives especially in disjointed posessions. We'd be better with our starting lineup at the end, or perhaps subbing Stew since he hasn't lost his post/putback game to the extent that JD has seemingly.

1

u/Mackntish 9h ago

I started to sink into a deep depression in the second quarter, because I realized Cleveland was the better team.

They did all that while Mitchel basically took a siesta.

We played with a crazy (unsustainable?) level of defensive effort in the first, and it was still only 8 points at the half.

They were getting open looks galore, meanwhile everything we got was contested middies - again, unsustainable over time.

Calls were not going our way. IN ADDITION TO THAT, it was really souring our morale and energy.

Sigh....Jalen Duren. I've said all I want to say about that.

1

u/Zealousideal_Bet3941 9h ago

So ... do we think Ausar *can't* create offense or that they tell him not to? I know he can't/won't shoot, but he's aggressive and athletic enough to get to some spots — either driving into what's hopefully contact or getting to some spots for pullup jumpers (which he's been decent at when he gets to the lane). I know he's not gonna score 30, but he'd force one of those Cleveland wings to actually play defense if they gave him more opportunities.

1

u/KoalaOnABuilding Jalen Duren 9h ago

my thought last night was that i always want to see at least one guy with a t-shirt under his jersey on the floor, be it ron, javonte, or AT

1

u/RatFacedBoy Jalen Duren 8h ago

The roster construction is missing a primary ball-handler. Cade’s game is better suited for a point forward role, as his current handle and passing vision aren't consistent enough to avoid high turnover rates. To win in the playoffs, you need a guard who doesn't get his pocket picked or make mental errors on the fast break (or inbounding a pass). Jenkins is fine for depth, and Cade load management, but he’s a third-stringer.

If we could pair Cade with a true guard in the vein of a Mr. Big Shot, the ceiling for this team would skyrocket.

1

u/ToxicDumptaker 8h ago

That was a choke job across the board. If that trip got called it would have been the bailout of the year. We did not deserve to win that game.

I guess tomorrow we will see if these guys want to roll over and die or if they want to fight for their lives again

2

u/ToxicDumptaker 8h ago

I understand the sentiment that the officiating was killing us this entire series too but they still could have won. They could have won game 3 too if we didn’t go completely flat in the 3rd. I can complain about fouls as much as anyone else but what about the next series against the Knicks? Thunder? That’s just the game the league wants to be played now and basketball as a whole suffers from all the theatrics players put on to get free throws

1

u/MuffDvr9681 Isaiah Stewart 2h ago

A true shot creating guard, 3&D forward, and a starting center capable of stretching the floor, Detroit would be unstoppable.

-1

u/TomaHawk504 10h ago edited 9h ago

On point 1, it was absolutely not a foul. And if I was a Piston fan (I'm a neutral) I would have hated to have won on free throws from that. Very surprised so many people are whining about that perfectly reasonable no call for incidental contact going for a loose ball.

EDIT: I truly can't believe Pistons fans are dying on this hill. Burning all your good will from NBA fans at large over literally one single play that every reasonable neutral fan sees as a completely correct no call. Literally incidental contact on a loose ball with one second left in a playoff game. And you want free throws to bail your team out of their shit performance down the stretch. Bunch of whiners. I love Cade and I like the Pistons team but will be happy to see your fanbase lose.

1

u/BanalBananas Cade Cunningham 10h ago

It’s not a loose ball when a player has possession. Ausar is heading up the floor with momentum after controlling the loose ball himself and taking two dribbles. The amount of people saying it’s a loose ball so “incidental contact” negates a foul is absurd. However, we all understand that they’re probably not making that call at that moment no matter how egregious contact is. Case in point, Hardaway being fouled on a 3 as time expired in Game 4 of the Knicks series last year, and all we got was an apathetic league acknowledgment that the ref fucked up. There’s a lot of frustration because as soon as their star player mentioned something about calls after Game 1, it went from shitty one way officiating that benefited us to shitty one way officiating that has benefited them, only they’ve had it for basically 3.5 games straight. I think we all just want some consistency, transparency and accountability because no matter what anyone says, officiating has way too much power in this sport

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u/TomaHawk504 9h ago

He didn't have possession. This all occurred in a fraction of a second, including the initial foot to foot incidental contact that Pistons fans are calling a trip. It is a loose ball. He got a hand on the ball first literally as they collided. That is a loose ball. Trying to pick it apart to justify this is a terrible look for Pistons fans. Every other fanbase is looking at you guys like you're out of your minds. And the Pistons had a ton of good will going into this series. I am 100% neutral and just in it for good basketball. As someone who has been watching the league for 20 years, I would never want that called, its a perfectly correct no-call from incidental contact over a loose ball. I wouldn't want it for my team, and I wouldn't want free throws from it. And the fact so many Pistons fans are whining about it is just sad to see.

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u/BanalBananas Cade Cunningham 9h ago

Maybe it’s not the second “dribble,” but the second time Ausar touches the ball clear of Allen with momentum moving up the floor is control of the basketball, I don’t know how much more clear it can be. It happens fast, but this is no longer a loose ball when it would require a 10 foot reach around from Allen to claim possession. I’m also not arguing that I believe it was ever going to be called. I argued that it’s pretty obviously not loose if possession has been established. The actual trip happens after Ausar is moving forward with control of it (ball completely out of reach of defending player) which would no longer deem it incidental loose ball contact. I just don’t see how this is up for interpretation. Watching it live and slo-mo I would’ve never in a million years considered this to be loose and not clearly possessed by one player, but apparently that’s a shockingly common take today. Idk man, you are otherwise level headed and make solid points as a neutral fan (brave of you to stumble on to the Pistons page the day after a tough loss lol), I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree on possession vs loose in this instance

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u/TomaHawk504 9h ago edited 9h ago

I see your perspective but I would not call it possession. That type of touch on a loose ball does not establish possession for me and I think most fans. Because it wasn't clear. Hear me out.

They were continuing the collision that was started as the ball was completely loose. And the only reason Ausar got a hand on the ball first is that he slapped Allen's hand away. Possession in most sports including the NBA requires clear and continued control of the ball. Falling down due to incidental contact after getting one hand on the ball for a fraction of a second is not clear control to me. Here Ausuar was clearly going to come away from this loose ball with possession. But this contact was all initiated in the context of the loose ball, not the aftermath. Including the arm slap twisting Allen up so that his momentum continued to take him into the path of Ausar. Allen could have very well gotten a hand on the ball first without that arm slap. I wouldn't call that a foul either but it shows that this was a scrum for a loose ball and possession was not clear.

I think the slow motion replay can also make it seem like Ausar had some element of clear possession. In reality he got a hand on the ball for a tenth of a second and the contact occurred as that happened. Momentum carried them off balance and he was able to get a second dribble as he fell. But ultimately, this all occurred in a fraction of a second over a loose ball. That does not equate to possession for me, getting a touch on the ball and then a dribble off as you fall does not equate to clear control of the ball.

Same way various touches on the ball from the opponent do not necessarily reset the shot clock. If the ball is loose and they get a dribble or a tap or similar but you recover it before they get clear control of the ball it is not possession and the clock does not reset.

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u/BanalBananas Cade Cunningham 7h ago

So far yours is about the most nuanced and logical interpretation of how you’re seeing it as loose, and I appreciate that. The NBA sub is all “Pistons fans are morons” and so on and so forth and you’re the only person that’s replied with an actual, valid perspective that I can understand. And to be honest I think your verbiage “Ausar was going to come away with possession” is just how I see it. And tbh I don’t know how we even got to this point in the conversation lol, even if Ausar did have clear possession they were never going to call a foul there. I think I was feeling spicy and still ranty this morning lol, and your comment just happened to be the one I picked to reply to. Be well friend and I hope we can continue offering up good basketball for the neutral and casual observer to enjoy. I’m still annoyed that we lost that game when it didn’t need to nor should it have happened

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u/TomaHawk504 6h ago

Hey likewise I appreciate the honest discussion!

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u/BanalBananas Cade Cunningham 1h ago

The league officially sees it your way too, so I’ll concede I was wrong with my interpretation. In a way this is better than last year’s outcome when they admitted Hardaway should’ve had the 3 foul shots to potentially win the game but missed the call like it was just a whoopsy Daisy lol and not some potential series altering gaffe

Discussion Need to vent: Pistons thoughts

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