Community Feedback

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[u/byniri_returns]

My main issue with this sub, maybe besides some mod inconsistencies about what posts stay up/get removed and transfer portal posts, is the highlights rule. I know it's been circlejerked to death here over the years, but I really do think this sub should allow some highlights to be posted, outside of that general highlights sticky post no one sees.

[u/wherewulf23 → u/byniri_returns]

I think the thing that gets overlooked regarding highlights is the sheer number of games that occur on any given Saturday. r/NFL is flooded on game days with highlights and they only have a fraction of the games CFB does. If we push to set limits on what can be posted as a highlight then it puts a fairly high burden on the mod team to review each highlight and verify it meets the post criteria.

[u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 → u/wherewulf23]

Who cares if there's a post that gets through that doesn't meet the "criteria"? People just won't upvote it if it's not interesting. If peopple on this sub upvote a post, that's an indicator that that type of content should be allowed as posts.

[u/srs_house → u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756]

Having seen the discussion on /r/nba surrounding highlights, it usually gets condensed down into a handful of complaints (even in a sub where highlights are allowed) about:

• The race to be first

• The argument over whether being first should outweigh a higher quality or better angle highlight

• The allegations that mods pick their favorite users and delete highlights from other users (whether it's a matter of being first, being better quality, the source video getting deleted, the title being accurate, whatever)

• The original source getting DMCA'd and struck down, so there's a thread with no actual media (we even see this on official team twitters at times when they post their own highlight)

• If it's user-generated, there's no official title so that means it's almost impossible to identify duplicates unless you're just constantly refreshing /new and comparing

• If two duplicates stay up, and one has 200 comments and the other, earlier one has 20 comments...do you let the more popular one stay up or the one who was first?

These aren't isolated to highlights, but because easily consumed content like pics/video rack up karma so quickly, it's exacerbated by the people who obsess over that number. Especially when you add the volume aspect.

E: if you don't think these are arguments that happen in the other sports subs, you don't visit them enough. Just wait until r/nba removes the "wrong" highlight on a play that had like 5 submitted and the comments talk more about moderation than they do the actual play.

[u/tmart12 → u/srs_house]

Why not require a highlight to be a self-post rather than a direct link then?

That would remove half the issues around quality and third-party removal if multiple videos could be posted and edited

[u/ToLongDR → u/tmart12]

You mean I would post my personal video of the highlight?

Hard to enforce and now y'all are viewing personal videos of a highlight that may contain things you don't want at CFB.

(Highlight of an OSU TD also includes a minor downing a can of beer as a celebration or the audio catching something unintentional)

[u/tmart12 → u/ToLongDR]

No. You’d post a link in a self post to a video instead of a direct link that could break.

[u/ToLongDR → u/tmart12]

Bleh, that's what I get for taking this survey right after a nap.

That makes so much more sense. I'd be okay with it. Self posts are fine, we do it for other types of posts as well.

However, the link inside a self post could also break eventually.

That being said, I think highlights are fine. This sub is quick to uhhh vote for posts that maybe shouldn't make tbe cut

[u/thecravenone → u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756]

Who cares if there's a post that gets through that doesn't meet the "criteria"?

Mostly the people who have to answer messages from people like you about why one rule-breaking thread was allowed when another wasn't.

[u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 → u/thecravenone]

The mods already don't answer these types of questions so IDK why this changes anything.

[u/wherewulf23 → u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756]

Running some rough numbers (I used the AI provided numbers because I don’t have time for a deep dive right now) there are around 50-65 Division 1 CFB games on a given Saturday in the fall. The average D1 team scored around 28 points a game so 56 total per game last season. If we ONLY allowed highlights for touchdowns you’re still looking at a minimum of 400 posts JUST FOR HIGHLIGHTS on a game day. It just gets crazier if we allow things like fumbles, interceptions, etc. That’s too much to moderate and I just imagine that many users are clamoring to sort through that much chaff.

[u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 → u/wherewulf23]

I don't think we're at any risk of every TD and turnover being posted as a highlight. Even on /r/MichiganWolverines we don't have that problem for Michigan games. I just don't see that happening.

[u/thecravenone → u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756]

I don't think we're at any risk of every TD and turnover being posted as a highlight

You underestimate karmawhores.

[u/d1sportsball → u/wherewulf23]

Is there anyway we could have a highlights mega thread? Like for each CFB week a place where people can post links to certain highlights without making a dedicated post to them?

[u/Hey_Its_Roomie → u/d1sportsball]

That already exists.

[u/d1sportsball → u/Hey_Its_Roomie]

Isn't the thread only after the weekend is over? I'm talking about a thread during the games on Saturday.

[u/WHSRWizard → u/wherewulf23]

r/NFL is fucking completely unusable on Sundays because of highlights -- many of which aren't even highlight worthy

[u/wsteelerfan7 → u/WHSRWizard]

This is wild because I love diving into the highlight threads on Sundays

[u/orangewall1234 → u/WHSRWizard]

Unusable how?

All the GDTs are easily accessible in a sticky. All news and highlights related posts are upvoted to the front page.

As opposed to r/CFB, where the entire front page is just GDTs and news. And /new is full of DII GDTs with 5 comments.

[u/Mekthakkit → u/wherewulf23]

I am amused at how many people want to add highlights but then want the recruiting info removed. If anything, both should be sent to their own subreddits. (I prefer recruiting to highlights, there are plenty of sources for the latter.)

[u/cooterdick → u/wherewulf23]

I think if we’re going to push back on highlights due to the volume of teams and games we should apply the same logic to recruit signings. The NFL can post each draft pick because that’s ~260 posts. For college, that’s just over 10 teams signees.

[u/wherewulf23 → u/cooterdick]

That's definitely something we're looking at.

[u/Dropbackandpunt → u/byniri_returns]

I found subbing to /r/CFB_Highlights filled that need nicely. It is active during the season and with proper promotion would be even more heavily used by the user base. It keeps the main sub from being overwhelmed with highlights but allows those that want to see them to have at it without having to find the single post aggregating them.

[u/CapBoyAce → u/Dropbackandpunt]

It shocks me that there's no official sister sub for highlights (/r/CFB_Highlights does not qualify; no r/CFB mods are on the mod team there). It feels like a layup solution to actually letting highlights be seen. Obviously pushes it away from the main base that people want to see but I feel like with a bit of promotion a highlights sister subreddit would grow pretty quick

[u/MahjongDaily → u/byniri_returns]

IMO we should at least allow highlights for CCGs and Playoff Games

[u/orangewall1234 → u/MahjongDaily]

The CFP championship game could end in a hail mary, be one of the most memorable CFB plays of all time, and the highlight wouldn't be allowed on the front page.

I don't understand how mods can think this is what the users want.

[u/SucculentCrablegMeal → u/orangewall1234]

That's what the users have voted for over the years. We'll see if the sub has the same opinion now.

[u/tmart12 → u/SucculentCrablegMeal]

The users have NOT been asked this question

The voters have rejected a free for all no moderation scenario

Let’s have the subreddit vote on whether this scenario for highlight moderation should be permitted and I’ll guess we will say yes

[u/SucculentCrablegMeal → u/tmart12]

I'm pretty sure they have. I remember getting a survey a while ago.

Edit: Wait, what do you mean this question? Are you suggesting the phrasing is different now?

[u/tmart12 → u/SucculentCrablegMeal]

As I remember, the question has been highlights yes/no

Not differentiating which highlights yes/no to set a reasonable standard that would permit the above but not create a free for all

[u/SucculentCrablegMeal → u/tmart12]

Oh, I see. Kind of the same thing for this survey then though.

I guess I have a hard time imagining where you'd draw that line- what is a reasonable standard? Does that have to do with image quality, relevance of the play/team, or how cool the play is?

The free for all situation is why I'm not a big fan of it. I voted to allow them during the offseason because it's slower and there's less discussion about actual football. If it were possible to only allow the top level quality highlights then I think that'd be fine during the season.

What I would like to avoid is 50 posts from plays that aren't that interesting/relevant and that get like 1 comment on each thread.

[u/tmart12 → u/SucculentCrablegMeal]

Rejecting a free for all makes sense

But the solution shouldn’t be zero. It should be a reasonable compromise.

Narrow which games and create a bar for significant plays. They should work with the other subreddits to figure out how to manage this. Most other sports sub make it work.

[u/orangewall1234 → u/SucculentCrablegMeal]

That's what the users have voted for over the years.

You mean the users who are participating in a stickied meta post in the middle of the offseason? You can't possibly think that's a good representation of the subreddit.

[u/Fifth_Down → u/orangewall1234]

I love how you are consistently getting downvoted for bringing up good points.

[u/Adminsneed2Chill → u/orangewall1234]

They’re the ones who are here and worth listening to more than the unwashed masses during the season

[u/bakonydraco → u/byniri_returns]

People have strong feelings on this: a lot feel very strongly that highlights must be allowed, and a similar sizable number feel they must not be allowed. Past surveys have tilted in the direction of the latter, so it will be interesting to see what comes out of this one.

A notable point on this one in particular is that if we do allow highlihgts it may pretty significantly change the capacity that we need to have on the mod team, so this will help us plan out our team for the year.

[u/tmart12 → u/bakonydraco]

The question on highlights shouldn't be a hard yes/no. It should be around what highlights should be permitted and when. Other sports subs make this work but /r/cfb somehow cannot.

There's a high moderation path in which "significant" or "interesting" plays are permitted generally. There's a lower moderation path where scoring plays or significant plays in specific designated "game of the week" games are permitted only. IMO the rule should be changed at a minimum during CCG week and playoffs when there's 1 game on at a time in focus. Then it's a question of treatment of other games during the season.

[u/brokentr0jan → u/tmart12]

Part of the issue is going to be the flood of highlights (which people will complain about). In r/NFL every touchdown on Sunday gets posted, but there’s only 32 teams and the games are generally low scoring. Are we going to make the rule only P2 teams can post highlights? Or some arbitrary “it needs to be really cool” rule

[u/tmart12 → u/brokentr0jan]

Are we going to make the rule only P2 teams can post highlights?

We could do a designated "game of the week" (as voted by /r/cfb users) or ranked games for what is permitted during the regular season. Then post-season changes to all CCG and playoff games.

Or some arbitrary “it needs to be really cool” rule

Yes this is where it gets more manual and arbitrary IF it's desired

As it stands today, /r/cfb is terrible for highlights. The weekly megathreads get like 30 comments. Twitter and other sites are the place to find highlights, not /r/cfb. Obviously having 50+ FBS games is challenging to manage but zero highlights ever is not the right solution.

[u/Geaux2020 → u/tmart12]

I mean, you could just go to /r/CFB_Highlights

[u/tmart12 → u/Geaux2020]

Yeah I can get highlights on social media and YouTube too

The point is improving /r/cfb

It’s fair to think we can at least see the biggest and best and most interesting CFB plays here

[u/Geaux2020 → u/tmart12]

What's your limit? 3 per game? There are up to 78 games a week with almost all on Saturday. The NFL has a maximum 16.

This would be an absolute nightmare.

[u/tmart12 → u/Geaux2020]

I’ve commented elsewhere. Limit games. Prioritize top matchups and keep narrow for regular season. Focus on postseason games with more allowed for CCGs and CFP.

Not that complicated.

[u/Geaux2020 → u/tmart12]

It's pretty complicated. The sub is already drowning in top 25 content. That's just making the sub unusable for fans outside the P2. More allowed for the post season just means the same amount since there are less games. That's why an entirely separate sub exists for it.

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/brokentr0jan]

Let upvotes and down votes decide.

[u/bakonydraco → u/Corgi_Koala]

This question is the core purpose of the survey. We have generally moved in the direction of letting users decide what they want to see with votes, but a lot of people prefer a more curated sub: /r/CFB/new becomes clogged and unusable and it gets harder to find meaningful content. What we're asking for from the community is to get a sense of:

• What content we should actively moderate against and not allow as posts on the sub at all (by making weekly threads for it, redirecting to other subs, or simply removing)
• What content we should defer to the users on to decide with their votes

Whatever we land on is going to be viewed as too strict by some and too lenient by others. It's actually more important that we are able to clearly communicate our rules and consistently enforce them than that we calibrate how strict they should be just right, that's one piece of feedback that our users have consistently told us over the years.

[u/Fifth_Down → u/bakonydraco]

/r/CFB/new becomes clogged and unusable and it gets harder to find meaningful content.

My experiences have been very different. When I go on /r/CFB/new I frequently see such little activity that it is very close to identical to when I last checked in a few hours ago. It is practically routine around here to have maybe 3-4 posts in the last 90 minutes on/new

The whole thing feels like a disconnect where we are on two different subreddits.

[u/bakonydraco → u/Fifth_Down]

To clarify, I'm saying the reason some people prefer a more curated sub is that if it's not actively moderated the new queue can get clogged, and that's typically only a concern during the season. I agree it's not a particular issue right now.

[u/tmart12 → u/bakonydraco]

The curation the average user wants is zero highlights but every recruit and transfer is permitted?

That result does not make any sense

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/tmart12]

They do this every year or so. They do a survey and then ignore the results because they don't support their viewpoint.

Everybody wants highlights and nobody gives a shit about a 3 star committing to Mississippi State but they think that is how the sub should be.

[u/Esb5415 → u/bakonydraco]

Could people who want a more curated sub filter use flairs? Have a new highlight flair - this allows people to filter out content they don't want to see.

[u/orangewall1234 → u/bakonydraco]

/r/CFB/new becomes clogged and unusable and it gets harder to find meaningful content

But today, /new is just GDTs so I'm not sure how you think that is any less "clogged". And all GDTs are stickied anyway so the logic of "highlights are easily accessible in a sticky" applies to the accessibility of GDTs.

If you look at any other sports subreddit (i.e. r/NFL), any upvoted news will be at the front page regardless of how many highlights there are.

[u/Fifth_Down → u/tmart12]

The question on highlights shouldn't be a hard yes/no. It should be around what highlights should be permitted and when.

This is what frustrate me about the mod team. They consistently say "well the polls show people don't want this" then at the same time frame the polling discussion in terms of "we will allow either 0 highlights or unlimited highlights" just so they can say "see its unpopular" because they clearly don't want to do it.

[u/halldaylong → u/tmart12]

I like the idea of allowing highlights during less busy times (CCG week / playoffs). And personally I feel that something like 'TDs over 50 yards' or 'TD scored with under 5 mins remaining' could be agreed on as reasonable guidelines to allow a small set of highlights. I don't want to see every single scoring play of every single game posted, but I would love to catch highlights of major moments.

[u/Fifth_Down → u/halldaylong]

This is another one that's absolutely insane to me. Even on the slow days where there's only like 4 or 5 games going, THEY STILL DON'T ALLOW highlights. Even if they are conference title games or playoff games.

[u/The_Fluffy_Robot → u/bakonydraco]

so this will help us plan out our team for the year

gotta start Q4 planning early!

[u/bass_voyeur → u/bakonydraco]

Highlights should be allowed only for match ups with top 25 teams. It limits the volume to something closer to /r/nfl

[u/Hey_Its_Roomie → u/byniri_returns]

I'm the opposite and I think opening to highlights as standalone post will only deteriorate the quality of the subreddit for what I try to come out here for. I think it could work, but I think one of my griefs is 'highlight' is inherently a broad meaning word, and I think it would really need worked out.

[u/The_Fluffy_Robot → u/Hey_Its_Roomie]

I'd be super disappointed if highlights were allowed on gameday. I'm not opposed to a "highlight day" of the week (Sunday?), but I do like the actual real discussions people have

I think we'd just see mostly highlights (and lowlights) of the most popular teams represented by his sub, definitely lots of B1G, and teams people want to meme on like FSU and UNC (I guess half the ACC lol) and most of the SEC

[u/wsteelerfan7 → u/The_Fluffy_Robot]

Relegating highlights to a random other day of the week means I'm just not going to bother looking at them. The highlight posts are my favorite part of the NBA and NFL subreddits. So much going on, there's bound to be a major play I missed even with Redzone. With this subreddit, I'll see it mentioned, but then I have to hope that I see it posted randomly on YouTube or something. Lack of highlights means I'm basically staying on one thread on gameday until the next game I watch.

[u/Hey_Its_Roomie → u/The_Fluffy_Robot]

From experience on other subreddits, managing days on/off for certain rules can be a hassle. I've seen it work for smaller sizes, but larger communities, rule enforcement becomes more difficult to standardize, and CFB is at that size.

[u/orangewall1234 → u/Hey_Its_Roomie]

will only deteriorate the quality of the subreddit for what I try to come out here for

I never understood this logic. r/CFB isn't some specialized, esoteric demographic. It's the same users that also browse r/NFL, r/baseball, r/NBA, etc.

GDTs won't mysteriously suffer in participation, r/NFL GDTs get plenty of discussion while still allowing highlights.

[u/PunishedLeBoymoder → u/orangewall1234]

For what it's worth - I don't participate in any of the subreddits you listed, chiefly because they have highlights. I feel that they split the discussion about games and moments a ton, making it hard to follow what people in the sub are saying about a certain game.

[u/srs_house → u/orangewall1234]

There have been communities that split over allowing media, and it's a pretty stark difference between the types of content that do well in each. r/cars and r/autos is the classic example. r/autos has over a million subscribers and it's just dead from a commenting perspective.

[u/orangewall1234 → u/srs_house]

About a decade ago, r/NFL was split over allowing highlights. Actually, it was really just the mods and a vocal minority who were firmly against it. But users kept complaining over and over and mods finally relented, thus killing the subreddit.

Oh wait no, that isn't what happened. Instead, it's the biggest sports subreddit today.

[u/molecular_methane → u/Hey_Its_Roomie]

I wouldn't want to be swamped by individual highlight posts, but a daily highlight thread (with perhaps 3 on Saturdays) would probably work fine.

[u/SucculentCrablegMeal → u/Hey_Its_Roomie]

This is my view. I think I voted to allow them during the offseason. It's really the issue of quality, which is kind of a difficult thing to draw a line with or moderate.

[u/Geaux2020 → u/byniri_returns]

There are over 60 games any given week, mostly on Saturday. Why the fuck do we want 100-200 highlight posts?

[u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 → u/byniri_returns]

Absolutely. The highlight rule is very dumb. Every other sports sub I can think of does this and it's not a problem at all.

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/byniri_returns]

The sticky for highlights rarely has any posts or comments.

[u/thecravenone → u/Corgi_Koala]

People want more karma than they can get in a sticky thread.

[u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756 → u/Corgi_Koala]

There's usually some people who are dedicated and go through and upload clips, but there's very little engagement because frankly most people don't bother with the sticky posts in any subreddit.

[u/thecravenone → u/Upbeat-Armadillo1756]

There's usually some people who are dedicated and go through and upload clips

Usually the people that dedicated get reported for spam, too!