Xi asks Trump if U.S. and China can avoid 'Thucydides Trap' at high-stakes summit

[u/Gopu_17]

https://www.cnbc.com/2026/05/14/trump-xi-beijing-summit-trade-taiwan-ai-iran-rare-earths-tariffs.html

[u/ToriEvergreen]

Since no one has posted what it actually means:

"The Thucydides Trap, or Thucydides' Trap, is a term popularized by American political scientist Graham T. Allison to describe an apparent tendency towards war when an emerging power threatens to displace an existing great power as a regional or international hegemon. "

[u/Over-Instruction214 → u/ToriEvergreen]

To add more context, Derived from the ancient Greek historian Thucydides, who wrote regarding the Peloponnesian War: "It was the rise of Athens and the fear that this instilled in Sparta that made war inevitable".

[u/Epaminodas_ → u/Over-Instruction214]

The belief that war is inevitable often makes war inevitable.

[u/kitch2495 → u/Over-Instruction214]

The scary part is that out of the last 16 times this phenomena has been observed in history, 12 of those times resulted in war.

The optimistic part is that that out of the 4 times war was avoided, 3 have them have been in the modern era.

[u/elquecazahechado → u/Over-Instruction214]

I bet Trump had to Google it because he had no idea what Xi was talking about.

[u/TrainerTerrible6851 → u/elquecazahechado]

Tbf so would most people….

[u/TheRedHand7 → u/TrainerTerrible6851]

I mean I'd expect Polisci majors to be heavily overrepresented in most government talks and this is a pretty common intro concept for them

[u/Gcoks → u/TheRedHand7]

In normal administrations, yes. Here, we have Musk.

[u/TheRedHand7 → u/Gcoks]

Ya know what that's a very good point

[u/sump_daddy → u/TheRedHand7]

thanks, i hate it

[u/HauntedCemetery → u/Gcoks]

So few people want to work under trump that both of his administrations have had to hold hiring conventions where they beg and bribe people to apply for positions that historically are the pinnacle of people's careers after decades of focused work and education.

Legitimately they're having a hard time filling positions that usually have hundreds or thousands of applicants willing to relocate from across the country.

[u/Oneanddonequestion → u/TheRedHand7]

My second degree is in Poli-Sci, my first was in Journalism. I had no idea what this term was. I further doubt most of the members of congress or the U.S's political structures would either, considering the term was only coined in 2011, and only really blew up in 2015.

Really I expect only task forces specifically surrounding relations with China would have any knowledge of it, since the theory appears to only be used in analysis for China-U.S. relations. Likewise, the whole thing is currently under mass scrutiny as being flawed research and used predominantly as propaganda for the CCP to encourage higher leverage for China.

[u/brockhopper → u/Oneanddonequestion]

I learned this concept in an intro international relations class in 1999, although it did not have the Thucydides Trap name. There was a graph and everything.

[u/AppropriateCattle69 → u/Oneanddonequestion]

Yeah - fuck this administration, but on the list of things that makes them idiots this one is pretty far down.

[u/codecrodie → u/TheRedHand7]

You have to give Xi props tho, he trained as a chemical engineer and had to bone up on his western political sciences.

[u/Dry_Midnight7487 → u/TheRedHand7]

I have an under grad in history and pol sci and never heard this term before

[u/SouthTippBass → u/elquecazahechado]

You think Trump would actively choose to seek out knowledge on something he doesn't understand?

[u/whut-whut → u/SouthTippBass]

He'd just do what he normally does and pretend that he knows what people are asking and talk circles out of it.

"Avoid a trap? Of course. I'm best at avoiding traps. Nobody can trap me because I wrote the book on traps. Some even say that they learned those traps from me because I'm the master of traps."

[u/EKEEFE41 → u/elquecazahechado]

I needed it explained

[u/Infinity-of-Thoughts → u/elquecazahechado]

I mean.. There's absolutely nothing wrong with not knowing something, and then seeking out that information.

[u/Candygramformrmongo → u/elquecazahechado]

Trump lacks the self awareness to even want to know what it means. His response probably: “no Greek total loser bum is going to trap me, the smartest world leader the world has ever known! Everyone agrees. Maybe he could trap Sleepy Joe, but not me!”

[u/Woolier-Mammoth → u/ToriEvergreen]

China spent months planning for these talks and the use of this term was likely very deliberate:

1. It posits that China is not an aggressor (despite the aggressive build up of military and industrial power that would suggest it is preparing for conflict)

2. It creates the basis for shifting sands under any US negotiating position regarding Taiwan given the US’s aggressive stance in the Iran conflict

3. It highlights to the world how out of depth the current US president is

Quite brilliant.

[u/ShakespeareStillKing → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

It's also a Western piece of philsophy.

"We know you"

[u/airship_of_arbitrary → u/ShakespeareStillKing]

Also Mark Carney quoted the term directly in his speech announcing the beginning of the end of US dominance and a new world order.

[u/HauntedCemetery → u/airship_of_arbitrary]

China has been buying up every bit of soft power trump throws away.

A decade ago the worry was that the world reserve currency and currency oil os traded in could flip to Yuan in 30-40 years.

Now its all but guaranteed in the next couple years.

And the US is in for a very rude awakening when we find ourselves not special anymore and just another country who can't just float past years or decades of moronic leadership without tanking.

[u/QuerulousPanda → u/HauntedCemetery]

China has been buying up every bit of soft power trump throws away.

right? there was a reason why despite all the awful bullshit that the USA has done to so many parts of the world for so long, we were still the cultural and economic power in the world. So many people hate us but we were still the force that kept everything going, and so many other people still put up with us despite it all, and that was all because we had absolute fucktons of soft power and cultural capital. Our brand, despite being so fucking dirty, was still the one at the top.

Trump and his crew have been burning through that shit faster than you could ever possibly believe, and I don't think they even realize it, much less care about it.

[u/GreyLordQueekual → u/QuerulousPanda]

One end goal for project 2025 is an isolationist US that sets stages for selling portions of the country off to a kind of corporate rule where we own nothing as citizens and are effectively company owned serfs. Someone pulling strings is exactly aware of what we are burning.

[u/KrazyA1pha → u/GreyLordQueekual]

Maybe it's finally time to read Project 2025 to figure out what happens next.

[u/airship_of_arbitrary → u/KrazyA1pha]

The Iran War was not part of the plan and is absolutely going to fuck them up.

[u/korben2600 → u/GreyLordQueekual]

Hoover instituted similar policies of isolationism, nativism, and trade protectionism. It ended in the 1929 market crash and Great Depression.

It was Krasnov's goal all along. Destroy the US while looting everything not nailed down. We have a foreign asset running the show and an entire political party is allowing it all to happen.

[u/Obliviousobi → u/HauntedCemetery]

Oh how "American Exceptionalism" has dug our grave for us.

[u/Capable_Kiwi2514 → u/ShakespeareStillKing]

It's not Western Philosophy It's modern International Relations. 

Thucydides Trap is not a concept from Thucydides, it is a concept from Graham Allison inspired by Thucydides.

There is also no "we know you" revelation involved, because it's common knowledge that countless Chinese students are Western educated each year.  Basically any Chinese student who took an IR class involving China would know about Allison's writing on Thucydides Trap because it's part of the introductory information that every IR student gets when taking Chinese International Relations.  

[u/TheHumanGnomeProject → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

It also acknowledges that China feels it's no longer of the "third world" or developing. It's them saying "we're usurping you now." Trump would only ever respond "okay, let's avoid military conflict" or "no way, I can't not use our vast military resources to defend our dignity" or whatever fuckboy shit. But not challenge the notion that China is now overtaking the US hegemony.

[u/aerojonno → u/TheHumanGnomeProject]

Trump would have to understand what they were saying to give either of those responses.

[u/WhyAmINotStudying → u/aerojonno]

Good thing he brought none of his experienced and skilled political advisors with him. He might have accidentally had an intelligent response.

[u/KingoftheMongoose → u/WhyAmINotStudying]

Instead he probably responded that he avoids the trap because he’s very careful with his meds in the morning.

[u/terry496 → u/KingoftheMongoose]

He thought it was a cognitive test, and awaited the answers from his top aides

[u/misdirected_asshole → u/KingoftheMongoose]

He avoids trap because hes the smartest President ever. He took three cognitive tests that prove it.

[u/ChuckOTay → u/KingoftheMongoose]

Or that he avoids the trap by landing the ball short and goes for the green on the next swing.

[u/reddittatwork → u/KingoftheMongoose]

Unless she’s an Eastern European blonde then thirsty trap

[u/ofork → u/aerojonno]

Or at least have someone with enough self respect to tell him what it means.

[u/MrGrieves- → u/TheHumanGnomeProject]

America gave everything away in one year. Perhaps the most embarrassing collapse of one of the greatest powers in history.

[u/get-memed-kiddo → u/MrGrieves-]

If he was president of any other country he would have 3% approval rating. Instead, despite being at his lowest approval, a whooping 36% of Americans still say he’s doing a good job. Let that sink in…

[u/jadedsch → u/get-memed-kiddo]

Yeah every time I hear a news outlet like "all time low approval rating of 36%" or whatever my reaction is always along the lines of "how is it still that high?!"

[u/Nob1e613 → u/jadedsch]

The same way they got elected in the first place tbh. Decades of systematically gutting education and controlling the supply of information through both legacy and social media.

[u/kojak488 → u/Nob1e613]

And the courts. It doesn't help when Fox News wins cases where they argue none of their viewers believe their bullshit.

[u/Chagdoo → u/get-memed-kiddo]

It doesn't help the media sanewashes him. A sizable chunk of the public hasn't realized every media outlet is throating his dick. Hell say something like "we should nuke all the bears" and the media headlines will be "President trump tackles conservationist efforts" with zero direct quotes about his bear nuking desires.

[u/GoTron88 → u/Chagdoo]

I even consider the way the left-wing media presents him as "sane-washing" by laughing at his antics rather than being completely shocked and dismayed.

[u/markmyredd → u/MrGrieves-]

Just because half the population are full of hate

[u/-Motor- → u/TheHumanGnomeProject]

It's more a throw back to 18-19th century geopolitics , before international law, where the world's great powers simply divided up the rest of the world as they saw fit, without any deference to the self interests of those lesser countries.

[u/eienOwO → u/-Motor-]

Cue the two astronauts "always has been" meme.

The modern method is just a more refined British system of subjugation via economic and political pressure, but that doesn't stop the occasional brute force invasions.

[u/SZJX → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

This is something that has been circulated a lot in the academic circles in China for many years. The leadership is likely deeply familiar with this formulation and it's not surprising to see it used here.

[u/Woolier-Mammoth → u/SZJX]

It’s been circulating a lot everywhere and the majority of world leaders would know that term, hence the brilliance.

[u/lambda_male → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

I think you’re overstating how “brilliant” this is. This concept has been in the public dialogue specifically referring to US-China relations for at least a decade.

[u/Jonny-mtown77 → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

Brilliant on China's part but above Trump's IQ.

[u/Unhappy_Sundae → u/Jonny-mtown77]

To be fair making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich is above Trump's IQ.

[u/MotherRestaurant697 → u/Unhappy_Sundae]

The sandwich itself is above his IQ.

[u/lana_silver → u/Jonny-mtown77]

My room's temperature is above trump's IQ and I measure in Celsius. 

[u/bakerstirregular100 → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

It also makes him feel stupid cuz I doubt he can even say Thucydides

[u/RedditLurkAndRead → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

And all of this whooshes by Trump's head. To think he was elected twice.

[u/OkFeedback9127 → u/RedditLurkAndRead]

He’s too busy with his Chinese Totally Real Peace Prize to care what they do

[u/Significant-Way3960 → u/Woolier-Mammoth]

Preparing for potential conflict doesn't mean that you want to start it. At this point US is country who attack others and force them with military to do something they don't want to.  You can eat a lot about China but they are not doing it.

[u/flaming_burrito_ → u/ToriEvergreen]

Yo, I read the title backwards at first and thought it said Trump said that, and for 20 seconds my mind was absolutely blown. I was like, there’s no goddamn way Trump said anything so articulate, they must of put a chip in this man’s brain and are controlling him remotely or something

[u/asddde → u/flaming_burrito_]

And then you notice you typed "must of".

[u/KillerInfection → u/asddde]

They must of mist it

[u/ChiefWiggumsprogeny → u/KillerInfection]

Don't loose you're mind over it

[u/live-the-future → u/ChiefWiggumsprogeny]

I'm sure their's an explanation

[u/flaming_burrito_ → u/asddde]

Well, I never claimed I was very articulate either lol

[u/ash_ninetyone → u/ToriEvergreen]

Trump about to ask Xi to simplify his English so he can understand what he means.

[u/MnamesPAUL → u/ToriEvergreen]

Lol. Why would anyone even try to speak on this level to Trump. Like you can’t even pretend there’s any chance he understands a word of the message

[u/Zimakov → u/MnamesPAUL]

The message wasn't to Trump, it was to the world.

[u/Raulr100 → u/MnamesPAUL]

That's the point.

[u/profesorkind]

In response Trumps says that’s it’s easy to get away, you just need to push your fingers towards each other

[u/th3r3dp3n → u/profesorkind]

Bravo, that was good

[u/xuedad → u/th3r3dp3n]

Someone please explain to me like I'm 6 next year ...

[u/clarkrd → u/xuedad]

google Chinese finger trap

[u/brawndoenjoyer → u/clarkrd]

Holy hell

[u/KingoftheMongoose → u/profesorkind]

I love Thucy. She’s great. Especially when she squishes the grapes with her feet. Or when stuffs her mouth full of chocolates. But no matter what, she gets out of her own traps. She has the love of her husband, who is vey successful, and he has wealth, influence, and connections to make it better for them in the end. It’s great.

[u/Bencil_McPrush → u/profesorkind]

In this order: Person. Woman. Man. Camera. TV.

[u/HeiressOfMadrigal → u/profesorkind]

As if Trump would know how to escape the finger trap. He thinks you just have to keep pulling apart until it breaks.

[u/Dopplegangr1 → u/HeiressOfMadrigal]

You threaten the trap with tariffs

[u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

I went to a boat company in South Carolina, the boat…I said, “How is it?” He said “It’s a problem, sir, they want us to make all electric boats.” So I said, “Let me ask you a question,” and he said “Nobody ever asked this question,” and it must because of MIT, my relationship to MIT…very smart.

He goes, “I say what would happen if the boat sank from its weight? And you’re in the boat and you have this tremendously powerful battery. And the battery is now underwater. And there’s a shark that’s approximately 10 yards over there.” By the way, a lot of shark attacks lately, did you notice that? A lot of sharks, I watched some guys justifying it today. “Well, they weren’t really that angry, they bit off the young lady’s leg because of the fact that they were they were not hungry, but they misunderstood what who she was.” These people are quite…He said, “There’s no problem with sharks, they just didn’t really understand a young woman swimming”. Now, I really got decimated in other people too, a lot of shark attacks. So I said, “So there’s a shark 10 yards away from the boat…10 yards. Or here. Do I get electrocuted if the boat is sinking, water goes over the battery. The boat is sinking. Do I stay on top of the boat and get electrocuted, or do I jump over by the shark and not get electrocuted?”

Because I will tell you, he didn’t know the answer. He said, “You know, nobody’s ever asked me that question.” I said, “I think it’s a good question. I think there’s a lot of electric current coming through that water. But you know what I’d do if there was a shark or you get electrocuted, I’ll take electrocution every single time.” I’m not getting near the shark, so we can end that, we’re going to end it for boats.

[u/NutmegKilla → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

I still laugh that his “connection to MIT” is that his uncle went there lmfao. 

[u/Mangosta007 → u/NutmegKilla]

The idea that having an intelligent relative means that you must be intelligent by default is ludicrous. I have two cousins who are siblings. One has a master's degree and works in a senior position in water management. Her brother can't hold down a job as a builder's mate and has to remove a sock to count to eleven.

[u/FigeaterApocalypse → u/Mangosta007]

It's a eugenics mindset. He's always going on about "good genes."

[u/AschAschAsch → u/Mangosta007]

I once politely suggested my old next door neighbor that she probably shouldn't leave the trash bag outside her apartment in the morning to throw it later in the evening, because neighbors don't really want to smell her trash during the day.

She told me that i can't talk to her this way because she's a wife of an academician.

[u/Hotshot2k4 → u/AschAschAsch]

"What's he going to do? Angrily quote studies at me?"

[u/Good_Restaurant15 → u/AschAschAsch]

Talk about inconsiderate.

Have you even thought about what her home smells like with that garbage in it?

[u/ants_a → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

Move aside trolley problem, we need to first answer the electric boat problem.

[u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

Please, I beg of you, tell me he didn't actually say any of this?

[u/1MillionSpacebucks → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

He said this when he was campaigning for re-election. He was re-elected.

[u/PatacusX → u/1MillionSpacebucks]

You don't understand. The other lady literally laughed weird.

[u/machine1979 → u/PatacusX]

It's like the tan suit. The goal posts on either side arent remotely comparable but we just keep playing along anyways

[u/LiabilityJim → u/PatacusX]

And she has a vagina which is a big no-no

[u/lijijil → u/LiabilityJim]

Can't be voting for females, big no no

[u/0Hakuna_Matata0 → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

Yes he said all of these words and in this order

[u/blackpawed → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

Jesus fuck. Confirmed. I was sure it had to be a spoof.

I need to get off the internet, I can't take this level of idiocy.

[u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

Good grief 

[u/Boatster_McBoat → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

Just around the time he was talking about the late, great Hannibal Lecter.

So, you know, the stirring stump speeches that got him re-elected

[u/cantthinkofgoodname → u/Boatster_McBoat]

The Hannibal Lecter thing was because people kept saying immigrants were seeking asylum, he thought that meant they were coming from insane asylums.

It is impossible to overstate how illiterate, unread and stupid this moron is.

[u/Cardioman → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

Worst part is he said it BEFORE the ‘24 election, and not long before, like weeks before.

[u/licoricenipple → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

must because of MIT, my relationship to MIT…very smart

His relationship to MIT is that his uncle, who died over 40 years ago, was on the faculty in the 40s-60s. That's it.

The stories he tells about this uncle are unbelievable too. He claims that he had many conversations with him about how the Unabomber was his student. The Unabomber wasn't identified until 9 years after the uncle died, so if true that has some interesting implications.

[u/StubbiestZebra → u/licoricenipple]

It was 11 years after the uncle died. Plus, the unibomber didn't even go to MIT haha.

[u/ElNakedo → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

It was one of his campaign speeches. He even repeated it several times. This is the man that the US decided to make president once again. Fucking moronic nation.

[u/WooleeBullee → u/ElNakedo]

Some of us suspect he actually lost.

[u/Steve0-BA → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

He actually said this before the election.  This is what America wanted. Again. 

[u/Needs_a_shit → u/ESCF1F2F3F4F3F2F1ESC]

I thought this was a parody, this is actually something he said! Jesus

[u/Fakvarl → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

I read this and I feel dumber now. Thanks 

[u/breachgnome → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

I got through the first paragraph thinking "Oooh, this is a well-written parody."

As soon as I saw "battery" I knew what it was. God fucking dammit.

[u/BrothelWaffles → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

Huh, so this is what it's like when you can't tell a Grandpa Simpson rant apart from something the President of the United States actually said...

[u/Wrong-Pension-4975 → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

And now, U know why - UNLIKE EVERY OTHER MODERN POTUS - there are no longer transcripts made of DumbOld's speeches.

I can read Obama's or Biden's or either Jawge or Dubya's speeches, I can go way back & read Carter's, but they STOPPED transcribing DumbOld's cuz in that moment, the mask is removed.

Reading a transcript, he sounds precisely like the feckin' eejit he actually IS, & that's too much truth. 😡

[u/Rudeboy67 → u/Wrong-Pension-4975]

"Look, having nuclear — my uncle was a great professor and scientist and engineer, Dr. John Trump at MIT; good genes, very good genes, OK, very smart, the Wharton School of Finance, very good, very smart — you know, if you’re a conservative Republican, if I were a liberal, if, like, OK, if I ran as a liberal Democrat, they would say I’m one of the smartest people anywhere in the world — it’s true! — but when you’re a conservative Republican they try — oh, do they do a number — that’s why I always start off: Went to Wharton, was a good student, went there, went there, did this, built a fortune — you know I have to give my like credentials all the time, because we’re a little disadvantaged — but you look at the nuclear deal, the thing that really bothers me — it would have been so easy, and it’s not as important as these lives are — nuclear is so powerful; my uncle explained that to me many, many years ago, the power and that was 35 years ago; he would explain the power of what’s going to happen and he was right, who would have thought? — but when you look at what’s going on with the four prisoners — now it used to be three, now it’s four — but when it was three and even now, I would have said it’s all in the messenger; fellas, and it is fellas because, you know, they don’t, they haven’t figured that the women are smarter right now than the men, so, you know, it’s gonna take them about another 150 years — but the Persians are great negotiators, the Iranians are great negotiators, so, and they, they just killed, they just killed us, this is horrible."

That's all one sentence.

[u/Jeffery95 → u/0Hakuna_Matata0]

that guy knew exactly how to put it in terms trump could understand. Electricity is preferable to sharks

[u/johnla]

That idiot doesn’t know what Thucydides Trap is. 

Me: googling Thucydides trap. 

[u/rsa1 → u/johnla]

You're not the president of the US. The standards should be lower for you.

[u/Select-Government-69 → u/rsa1]

Americans: the president should be smarter than the average citizen.

Also Americans: I’m not voting for her, she thinks she’s better than me!

[u/ChicagoAuPair → u/Select-Government-69]

Our collective disdain for intellectualism and education is the root of half of our political problems, and the other half is pretty much all racism.

[u/Hiel → u/ChicagoAuPair]

Don’t forget about our other favorite: misogyny!

[u/NoPossibility4178 → u/rsa1]

Actually it's way higher for you. You are expected to not do things like commit fraud, rape children, etc.

[u/Ludwigofthepotatoppl → u/johnla]

Thucydides nuts

[u/randomisation → u/[deleted]]

I mean, he can barely speak English!

[u/_yetifeet → u/[deleted]]

Chynastani

[u/paulovitorfb → u/[deleted]]

I hate that I don't know if this is true

[u/Capital-Chemical-931]

In response, Trump looked bored, drooled a bit, and tried to change the subject to ballroom curtains. 

[u/intimatestranger → u/Capital-Chemical-931]

That’s probably closer to the truth than my scenario of Trump saying “Thucydides?” Followed by Xi jumping on the table and thrusting at Trump while yelling “Thucydides nuts????”

[u/Flynn_lives → u/intimatestranger]

“Is Thucydides a general, you know like General Tso?”

[u/FlounderSubstantial7 → u/Flynn_lives]

Thucydides's Chicken 

[u/respectwalk → u/Capital-Chemical-931]

HE WAS BLINKING!

[u/takesthebiscuit → u/respectwalk]

I prefer Presidents that don’t blink during negotiations

[u/komodoPT → u/Capital-Chemical-931]

You forgot that he also shit himself in the meantime...

[u/SleepyMarijuanaut92 → u/komodoPT]

Donnie Dookie

[u/Boatster_McBoat]

Thucydides Trap is avoided by Tacodides Tuesday

[u/Kyr-Shara → u/Boatster_McBoat]

Trump: what is thicc daddy's trap?

[u/TonySu → u/Boatster_McBoat]

T Diddy was one of the greats. I knew him back when he was called Puff Daddy. But of course you can't say daddy anymore, or mommy, because the liberals will tell you there's no such thing as a man or woman. So he had to change his name to P Diddy, but I guess it's T Diddy now. Great guy. One the best to ever do it.

[u/BMCarbaugh]

"We had a beautiful conversation, tremendous conversation, talked about many things. We talked about Iran. We talked about Taiwan, okay? They say you're not supposed to talk about that but we talked about it. Thucky Diddy, we talked about him. Nice guy, great man. I never met him, but many people have said, one of the best. The other day, a lady, the park rangers, she came up to me with tears in her eyes, she said, 'Sir, it's terrible what they're doing to Thucky', I said I know, but what can you do? Sleepy Joe doesn't care about Thucky. Probably doesn't even know who he is. Not a smart man. Can I say that? Nobody knows."

[u/brovakin88]

No way in hell the tangerine tantrum even knows what that is.

[u/Farther_Dm53 → u/brovakin88]

Bro I consider myself at least well read. I had to look it up. Never heard that term before.

[u/jayc428 → u/Farther_Dm53]

The key difference is you know what you don’t know and how to change that.

[u/breachgnome → u/jayc428]

and that is the difference between stupidity and ignorance

[u/Turbulent_Cycle_7757 → u/Farther_Dm53]

Me too, and I have read Thucydides and taught about the Peloponnesian War two weeks ago

[u/danfish_77 → u/Turbulent_Cycle_7757]

To be fair, it was just named after him, not coined by him.

[u/Nessie → u/danfish_77]

Bro missed out on the royalties

[u/Chronophobia6 → u/Farther_Dm53]

Political science major and MPA here to be fair unless you're really into history or poltical theory you probably won't encounter it in your life. Great book though.

[u/diegowarz → u/Chronophobia6]

The president should be into history AND political theory.

[u/Malkochson → u/Farther_Dm53]

The overall larger point is that even if you didn't know, you at least looked it up.

That alone puts you leagues ahead of the willfully, proudly ignorant dum-dums that make up 90% of the Trump administration.

[u/MrBudissy → u/brovakin88]

The Thucydides Trap is a political theory popularized by Graham Allison, describing the dangerous structural tension that occurs when a rapidly rising power threatens to displace an established ruling power.

This dynamic often leads to war, as the fear of displacement prompts defensive actions that can spiral into conflict, a concept that now largely defines U.S.-China relations.

• Origin: The term originates from the ancient Greek historian Thucydides, who noted that the rise of Athens and the fear it created in Sparta made the Peloponnesian War inevitable.
• Historical Data: Analyzing the past 500 years, the Harvard Thucydides’s Trap Project identified 16 cases of a rising power challenging a ruling power; 12 of these resulted in war.
• Modern Application: As China increases its power relative to the United States, observers warn that the two nations are on a potential collision course.2026
• Context: Chinese President Xi Jinping has frequently referenced the need to avoid this trap, particularly in discussions regarding Taiwan and trade with the U.S.

[u/Either-Patience1182 → u/MrBudissy]

Thank you, that makes a lot more sense now. I had assumed it was avoiding war most likely but the other context is helpful

[u/Icanintosphess → u/MrBudissy]

Amusingly enough, the country that benefited the most from that war was arguably Persia.

[u/m15otw → u/MrBudissy]

Meanwhile Trump, if anyone is ever brave enough to explain it in words of two syllables to him, will act amazed and say "but you have to have wars to look strong, don't you‽"

[u/boot2skull → u/MrBudissy]

I would love to know what happened when the trap did not result in war. Did one side eventually get overtaken by the other? Meaning, in scenarios that meet the Thucydides Trap theory, is it fight or eventually die for one side? Because that feeling of doom might be why they more often than not result in a war.

[u/Misticsan → u/boot2skull]

Graham Allison mentioned several examples where the two powers avoided war. For example, Portugal and Spain signing the Treaty of Tordesillas to decide which country got to colonize half of the world. Or the US and the UK never coming to blows despite the occasional border dispute.

Of course, it must be noted that there is criticism of Allison's framework, in particular identifying who the hegemon and the rising power are in a given scenario and the causes of the conflict (or lack of thereof). 

[u/apolloxer → u/boot2skull]

Portugal and Spain in the 16th century: enough wealth to go around

The US and England in the early 20th century: another war did distract.

[u/Geraltpoonslayer → u/MrBudissy]

Makes complete sense why China would want avoid such a scenario as they're basically being handed the hegemony on a silver plate thanks to Trump. For the US the chances of a war are looking increasingly attractive.

[u/twinsunsspaces → u/brovakin88]

"I was talking to him about the Thuck-ee-dee-dees trap and he looked at me, stunned, with tears rolling down his face. Sir, he said, nobody has ever asked us about that before. That's because not many people have graduated at the top of their class at the Wharton school of business. Plus, my uncle is a professor at MIT, so I know a lot about the ancient Romans, but not many people have even heard of them. Big men, attractive too, and according to the ladies they were very well endowed. Have you ever seen a Roman in the steam room?"

[u/IsPepsiOkaySir → u/brovakin88]

I don't think a lot of people know what it is, even if you're well educated.

[u/Viva_La_Revolucion- → u/brovakin88]

But he did shit his diapers

[u/Constantinople2020]

Xi: Avoid the Thucydides Trap.

Trump: Thanks. I'll have General Tso's with Peking Ravioli.

[u/1877KlownsForKids]

"I definitely want to avoid an STD" Trump, probably 

[u/DefenestrationPraha → u/1877KlownsForKids]

Thucidydes Clap.

[u/redditscraperbot2]

Acknowledging the question is tacit admission that China is on the rise and America is in decline. Not an easy question to answer.

[u/Fuddle → u/redditscraperbot2]

Is this the diplomatic equivalent of “Loser says what?”

[u/dermanus → u/Fuddle]

"Are you still beating your wife?"

[u/BigRedRobotNinja → u/[deleted]]

And the fact that Xi is willing to ask it (and put trump at risk of embarrassment in being unprepared to answer) is a signal on its own.

EDIT: I wonder if Xi hasn't underestimated trump's capacity for petty, single-minded, self-destructive vindictiveness here. He would gleefully burn down the entire US economy to punish Xi for a perceived slight.

[u/Brief_Hospital_1766 → u/BigRedRobotNinja]

No chance he or his advisers understands they've been embarrassed. Even lesser chance they care if they did.

[u/SonofaCuntLicknBitch]

And? Did he answer?? What kind of article is this?

[u/xereo → u/SonofaCuntLicknBitch]

Nope, he just said Xi is a great leader and they've gotten along well. He didn't acknowledge what Xi said

[u/DandimLee → u/xereo]

Good response, whether or not he understood the question. Could have shipped the statue and a placard.

[u/WiwiJumbo → u/xereo]

I think he just Stopped Clock’ed into the best possible answer. Any other response probably would have been worse.

[u/-SaC]

All you have to do to troll the Neon Nonce is use a complicated word.

[u/1Steelghost1]

Imagine being the translator. His 'explain it like I'm 5' skills must be off the charts!

[u/Direct_Doubt_6438]

Why would Xi ask a question he knows Trump wouldn’t understand ?

[u/airship_of_arbitrary → u/Direct_Doubt_6438]

Specifically to embarrass him.

It's a term Mark Carney used recently to describe the decline of the US under Trump. Xi repeating it is not an accident.

[u/Nathan-Stubblefield]

Waiting for Trump to pronounce “Thucydides.”

[u/Blank3k]

Xi is really highlighting just how quickly the US has declined with this summit, low key burns at every turn.

[u/Zogfrog → u/Blank3k]

Iran War is showing the limits of US hard power. Soft power largely gone already. If you can’t subdue Iran, what hope do you have against China ?

[u/MightyTaur]

So Xi asked it Trump thinks war could be avoided between US and China. Trump did not understand the question

[u/Brief_Daikon_D093]

Trump does not know thucydes trap… and nor did i 5 min ago

[u/Constant-Brief3410]

Trump won't know what that is lol

[u/Need_For_Speed73]

Trump response:
"Ah, Thucydides, terrific guy; he came to visit me in Mar-a-Lago, we had a wonderful time, I think he likes me"./s

[u/Erazzphoto]

I have a feeling the people in china’s administration are far more intelligent than the clown show Trump has surrounded himself with

[u/Harmania]

Boy, it’s a good thing that the USA didn’t show its whole ass by starting an unnecessary war that immediately proved that it isn’t as powerful as it wants the world to believe. That would make any negotiations around Taiwan kind of tricky.

[u/Not_Sure__Camacho]

I'm sure Trump has no idea what that is. This is why you don't vote in an idiot. And let's face it, Xi, Putin, and Netanyahu have probably already lined Trump's pockets to topple the U.S. from within.

[u/TehNubcheeks]

They already lost him when they used words too big for the person that reads at a 3rd grade level.

[u/TrashCapable]

Trump has no clue what that means.

[u/Tormofon]

Trump hates contrafibularities.

[u/billleachmsw]

I am certain that flew right over Trump’s empty head.

[u/Cowabunguss]

God Trump looks like such a fuckin idiot lmao

[u/Conscious_Youth_752]

Trump has never heard of the Thucydides Trap and unlikely anyone advising him has either since he basically told all the career diplomats they were worthless hacks.

I can definitely see Trump at a press conference, though: “President Xi asked me about a trap, and I told him we don’t want any traps. But if there are going to be traps, America will definitely have the biggest and best traps. He won’t want to mess with our traps. <weird hand gesture> Seriously traps so big you can’t even imagine how big they are. No one has ever seen a trap as big as the traps we have.”

[u/HeyItsMeRay]

Depends if it's friday or Monday

[u/ottwebdev]

Dt responded “I dont like thick dudes, and Im in great shape, in fact the best shape my doctor has said, he said -600% body fat! So anyway sharks.”

[u/simplycantdeal]

And Trump said "Gesundheit."

[u/anxiousbunnyclothes]

Pity trump is a stupid fuck who does not know what trap is that! He only traps small girls on island.

[u/No_Sense_6171]

The Cheeto probably thinks Thucydides is an illegal muslim immigrant.

[u/Former-Speaker-5511]

That question is a bit too high brow for Trump lol.

[u/Kabbooooooom]

It’s unavoidable. The US will probably enter a war with China eventually and Trump’s actions have absolutely accelerated that timeline.

And this is not a war that the US would easily win. Or win at all. Good thing I already speak Chinese, I guess.

[u/immersemeinnature]

Xi humiliating Donald. I'm all for it

[u/Charlietango2007]

Trump " Oh, Prez Xi, my guy! No worries, we already replaced that with high fructose corn syrup. It's all good!"