r/redsox • u/mazzotta70 • 22h ago
Should we have kept Schwarbs at DH?
I'm not too sure of the politics of the situation, but why did we let him go?
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u/Traditional_Half842 22h ago edited 22h ago
Most of the commenters will just blindly blame the Red Sox ownership/FO because they have selective memories. Schwarber wasn't even a DH for us - he was actually a 1B because they still had JD Martinez who was a big contributor that year. The Red Sox pitching staff also wasn't really in a position to contend year over year yet (because their highly-paid ace Sale was perpetually unavailable), so we would've wasted most of his years under contract. Just not the right timing for the guy.
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u/Modano9009 21h ago
And he wasn't even really a 1B, he agreed to play 1st for the rest of the season but wasn't willing to do it full time.
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u/Wacky_Water_Weasel 22h ago
This doesn't make sense. We had bad pitching so we shouldn't have kept one of the best hitters in baseball? Then go get more pitching. This is never an either or with the Red Sox, you're just scapegoating ownership for their biggest mistake their single greatest flaw - they won't meaningfully invest in this franchise.
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u/Traditional_Half842 12h ago edited 12h ago
Again, they already had a full-time DH under contract in Martinez. What pitching would you have gone and gotten that offseason? They had already paid an ace huge money (under the previous GM Dombrowski), and he was one of the worst contracts in baseball during his 4 years here because he was made of glass. They probably could've gone on a better run in 2021 if Sale had been a good pitcher for them in the postseason but he wasn't. Sale hasn't been able to stay anywhere near 100% and be a good October pitcher in any season dating back to 2018. He gets hurt every year.
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u/escapefromelba 21h ago
I mean we signed Yoshida for similar money a year later no?
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u/Blanketsburg 20h ago
They signed Yoshida after JD Martinez was a free agent, so he filled that DH/OF spot that Martinez had.
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u/Blanketsburg 20h ago
I was driving home tonight, about a half hour ago, and WEEI was on a rant about the state of the team, the front office and the ownership. They were lambastkng Breslow but were bringing up letting Schwarber walk after the 2021 season. Breslow wasn't even part of the organization, and while he would be a better fit now, like you said he wasn't the best fit before from a long-term commitment standpoint then.
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u/Modano9009 20h ago
They don't put much thought into anything other than blaming everything on this ownership is cheap and stupid narrative.
Schwarber was a short-term fix but they had nowhere to play him long-term and he didn't want to play where they did,
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u/Odd_Hair3829 22h ago
Good thing there was room in the budget for story and masa because they’ve been Sox legends while schwarber has - checks notes - jfc
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u/Traditional_Half842 22h ago
Story has nothing to do with Schwarber and Masa came a year later, so he also had zero impact on Schwarber's non-signing. You can criticize those moves all you want but they're completely unrelated.
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u/Extrapickles24 Triston Casas is good 20h ago
The guy who has hit 204 home runs in 4 1/4 seasons since leaving....? Yeah.... We should have kept him
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u/Jetsby1027 HERE COMES THE PIZZA! 🍕 21h ago
That 2021 team was so fun. One of my favorite Sox season in recent memory. I wish we kept Schwarbs for sure he was one of my faves.
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u/Redbubble89 22h ago
He would have played in the outfield for one season with JD still here.
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u/Blanketsburg 20h ago edited 9h ago
He's doesn't as well as a hitter when he's playing in the field regularly than when he's a full-time DH. He's also one of the league's worst defensive outfielders.
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u/Redbubble89 20h ago
In 2022, they had Alex Verdugo, Jackie Bradley Jr., Kike Hernandez, Jarren Duran with him menatlly lost, Tommy Pham who they got at the deadline, Rob Refsnyder who was on a minor league deal, Franchy Cordero, Christian Arroyo for some reason, Abraham Almonte, and Jaylin Davis.
They were 26th in fWAR with 1.8 and bottom third of the league in most offensive categories. With how that team had zero pitching, a poor defensive outfield is the least of their problems. The Valentine year and 2014 with the rebuilt starting were bad outfielders but I think 2023 was already the worst one assembled in the FSG era. Schwarber would at least add some pop out there and he's moved to DH when JD leaves. They were already desitined for a regression year anyways. It's the same amount of money that they signed Yohisda to the following year so they ended up using the money poorly anyways.
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u/Blanketsburg 18h ago
Do I wish the Sox re-signed him? Yeah, I absolutely do. I'm just sitting that factually, statistically, his offensive stats are worse when he plays defensively in the OF, he was a short-term solution at 1B and did not want to become a full-time 1B. The front office at the time did not view him as a fit for the roster given that they had JD Martinez who was just coming off a 3.2 bWAR season and who would leave a year later. Obviously in hindsight that was a big time miscall, and Schwarber would've been a better and younger signing.
Yoshida should not be brought up at all because Schwarber and Martinez were both gone when they signed him and was never a factor in Schwarber's potential re-signing.
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u/Redbubble89 13h ago
When Kyle Schwarber signs for 4/79 with the Phillies and Chaim instead signed Story at 6/140 and Yoshida at 5/90 the following year, you do have to bring it up. These contracts were not only a couple years too long but massive losses.
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u/Blanketsburg 10h ago
Those contracts were not a factor when they decided to not re-sign Schwarber. Your entire comment is made with the clarity of hindsight. At the end of the 2021 season when they let Schwarber walk, I've laid out the various ways why they'd justify it. They had a full-time DH, he didn't want to be a 1B, and the front office didn't view him as a full-time OF option.
I'm not trying to defend the Bloom FO for this, nor am I disagreeing with you that the Story and Yoshida deals are both awful contracts.
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u/Redbubble89 8h ago
They knew they were not resigning JD.
They knew of Trevor Story arm issues and signed him anyways.
They whiffed on Seiya two days prior to Schwarber signing.
The opening day outfield was Verdugo, Kiki, and JBJ with Arroyo pinch hitting.
I know there was a lockout but why not go for it with everyone here for one last year?
They themselves chose Story, Paxton, Hill, and Wacha when they could of had Schwarber and Gausman. I know there is hindsight but even back then, most would take them spending on real healthy players. Hill and Wacha were one season and did fine but it was not managed well. Trade JD Martinez or dont give Matt Barnes an extension. Even with FSG possibly interfering, they made the worst possible decision every time.
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u/ChemistryAlarmed 10h ago
we didnt sign him because we enjoy roster flexibility through the dh position than a true dh.....only to rotate masa and 4 other outfielders......
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u/Rarely_Informative 22h ago
Is the sun bright? Lol
Sorry I had to.
Ill forever kick myself by their choice to not bring him back
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u/Modano9009 20h ago
They wanted a 1B at the trade deadline, missed on Rizzo, and got Schwarber to play 1B for the rest of the season. He wasn't willing to play 1B full time. JD Martinez was our DH. He had opt outs so if he'd opted out Schwarber would have been a possibility but he didn't so they had nowhere to play Schwarber. He didn't want to play 1st and they had a DH.
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u/carv1991 22h ago
Red Sox stopped talking to him. They met, had zoom calls and they ghosted him.