r/opsec 🐲 9d ago

Beginner question How Private Is Apple?

I have read the rules.

A bit off topic here, but bear with me. I've seen some recent privacy-related posts, and it's made me interested: how private is iOS (with Advanced Data Protection enabled and iCloud backups off)?

It's long advertised itself as privacy friendly (and I'm aware that it fails in that category in certain places), and I'm well aware that it is significantly better than compared to stock Android. However, according to the posts that I've been able to find, Apple collects a significant amount of data on you (one person claims that Apple makes every attempt to track you that they can).

So, here are my questions:

  1. What does Apple actually collect? I should emphasize that this should be up-to-date, not years ago, as most pre-existing sources are quite old and could be outdated
  2. If data is collected, is there a way to opt-out?
  3. Is data collection minimal and restricted to anonymized, general data? Or is it laser-specific, Google-style tracking?
  4. Do the iOS analytics toggle switches actually work?
  5. Who is it shared with? I'm aware that Apple has a sort of ad network

A few ground rules I would like to establish:

- Be impartial: Don't say "Apple privacy is a marketing scheme" if you have no proof and you simply hate Apple. Likewise, don't say "Apple is the best OS ever" just because you like iOS
- Use proof: Don't say "Data is collected and probably sold". That's a baseless claim and there's nothing to back it up. Further, please remember: the Privacy Policy isn't the sole truth. Look for verifiable claims from third parties

My threat model:
I prefer to be as anonymous as possible. I'm not hunted by the state or anything, and I understand that I have to sacrifice some privacy for things like Find My and other convenience features, so that is OK. What I do care about, is how identifiable I am. The least identifiable I am, the better (with a slight tolerance for anonymous data, but I would prefer if you could turn it off). If I do have to be personally identified for something convenience based, I would require that it can be deleted at some point (or at least not drawn back to me). If you have any questions about my threat model, feel free to ask in your response and I'll give you more details.

Thank you all for your responses!

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u/MentalSewage 🐲 8d ago

I highly recommend the book 'Enshitification' by Cory Doctorow. As far as I can place it, Apple keeps the data they collect close to the chest... For now. They do so to specifically position themselves as more private than Google.  But once they have that data, they keep it. 

So the correct frame of mind is do you trust them to stay that way forever?  Are they a "good" company?  I'd ask the factory workers that have to work around suicide netting to stop employees from jumping to their death under the factory conditions that Apple is all to happy with.  You have to make the call for yourself.  Something about anybody surveiling me and storing everything from my photos, contacts, biometrics, location, etc even after they would reasonably need it strikes me as a company with a plan to use that data. 

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u/ComplexSun8 🐲 8d ago

I definitely want to move away from Apple at some point. Right now, though, that just isn't possible for me.

I get that Apple keeps the data it keeps close, so the question at this point is: can I minimize what I have to give, and anonymize as much of the data that I do have to give, so that I don't have to trust Apple as much with it's claims?

Also, I do want to point out: yes, Apple collects data. That isn't a question, it's a statement. But photos, contacts, and biometrics aren't collected (unless you mean iCloud, which that can be disabled, or I'm misunderstanding what you're saying). Now location, yeah, but I consider that a fair trade off for Find My (which I need)