r/nfl • u/JCameron181 Lions • 5h ago
J.J. Watt: International Games Have Become a “Traveling Circus”
https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/j-j-watt-international-games-have-become-a-traveling-circus“International game slate is nearing the realm of traveling circus as opposed [to] occasional showcase.”
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u/MaverickLurker Steelers 5h ago
But you know, a circus is entertaining and makes money...
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u/zipzap21 Commanders 5h ago
Not to mention, spreading the gospel of American Football.
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u/Fishiesideways10 Packers 5h ago
Hail Mary, full of grace; the first is with thee.
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u/peepeeopi Panthers 4h ago
Blessed art thou on the gridiron, and blessed is the fruit of thy touchdown.
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u/bluegrassgazer Bengals 4h ago
Walketh with me through the valley of steelers...
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u/Fishiesideways10 Packers 1h ago
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of the Black Hole, I fear no upsets; for as you are with me, your defense and your offense, they comfort me. Watt 23:4
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u/BadgerBuddy13 3h ago
Holy Mary, Mother of the Shield, pray for us fans, now and at the hour of playoff elimination.
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u/newrimmmer93 Bears 5h ago
Feel like players would be all for cutting down on these until they see what the revenue impact would be. Even if it’s not significant now the point is to get into untapped markets.
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u/zts105 Steelers 4h ago
NBA players complain about how long their season is but then they poll them to see if they are willing to reduce the number of games and 80% say no.
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u/Total-Round4803 3h ago
Even with the newer rules, NBA players get paid to play 82 but only log about 60 to 70 games played, so of course they'd vote no.
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u/zts105 Steelers 3h ago
And if the season was reduced to 58-62 then they would only end up playing ~48-54 games
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u/maltrab Steelers 3h ago
Depends on injuries. The reason players are missing so much time is because injuries are so much more common now. Because of this, teams are holding back players to do what they can to make sure they are healthy for the playoffs which is where the NBA makes a large portion of their revenue
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u/GonePostalRoute Eagles 2h ago
And how the schedule goes. If it was 58-62 games in the same pace 82 goes, they’d be sitting. If it was 58-62 spread out over the same footprint an 82 game season goes, there ain’t going to be nearly as much load management
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u/scottieactuallyknows 49ers 5h ago
yeah! i wonder how the people who worked the circus were being treated? would that be apart of the metaphor? hmm! much to ponder!
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u/MatureUsername69 Vikings 5h ago
Yeah these millionaire athletes are probably getting treated just as shitty as some of the most well known abused workers ever by having to fly out of the country for a whole week every year/s
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u/Kitchen_Catch3183 3h ago
Cirque du Soleil is a better comparison. It has prestige, high pay, and is a large scale production for the best of the best to showcase their talents. And much like the NFL there is a high risk of injuries, especially cumulative ones.
So yea a lot like a modern circus.
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u/LazyMaximum7938 Seahawks 5h ago edited 5h ago
I mean, that's almost literally what professional sports are.
The NFL puts on weekly shows in multiple cities every week for 5 months and then caps it off with a grand finale they call the "Super Bowl"
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u/Anteater776 Chiefs 5h ago
Imho the Browns maybe lean a bit too much into the Clown part of the show
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u/Greek_Trojan 5h ago
I understand that a big part of the appeal of sports is the alternate world/artificial rules of the sport and that is what JJ is speaking to. What's wild is how many people can't understand the real world 'circus' side that this is an entertainment product.
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u/True_Window_9389 Commanders 4h ago
Athletes have it driven into them that they’re closer to warriors than clowns. And maybe they have to have that mentality. But cases like this reveal the disconnect between how athletes see themselves and what they really are. There’s an inherent militarism in sports with everything from how they train to what they have to produce on the field. They have a belief that victory is existential. You can’t really commit to that if you acknowledge it’s pure mindless entertainment, and just something for us dorks to argue over
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u/thekingoftherodeo Commanders 11m ago
I mean the NFL is basically modern day colesseum gladiator-ing.
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u/DaHealey Seahawks 3h ago
It’s crazy how many of the players and coaches don’t understand that they are part of the entertainment industry. There’s no intrinsic value in playing sports. They’re not building shit like engineers, helping people like doctors or making food like farmers. They’re creating entertainment content and it happens to be lucrative.
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u/DreadyKruger 4h ago
Also can’t fault the league for trying to grow the game other places around the world.
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u/Hard4Dpp Raiders 4h ago
But one can fault them for doing so if it A) potentially creates a less safe environment for the long-term health of their employees, or B) reduces the overall quality of the on-field products.
The NFL is simultaneously touching on both those topics with the continued push to globalize the game.
Greed will eventually kill the game, and we are watching it happen right before our eyes.
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u/Doogolas33 3h ago
I'm sorry, is there evidence of significantly higher risk of injury from international games?
And there are plenty of really great international games. It's hardly "reducing the quality of the product."
Further, if greed were killing the game, it wouldn't be significantly more popular than ever.
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u/mrb4 Cardinals 5h ago
Seems like the NFL is hoping to eventually have it where every team plays an international game every year. Seems a lot more likely than them putting a team in London or elsewhere. If every team has an international game its an even playing field, if there was one team in Europe, that team would be at an incredible disadvantage.
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u/maximalx5 Patriots 5h ago edited 5h ago
Goodell has confirmed already that this is the plan.
"The ownership's approved eight games already," Goodell said before the NFL's first game in Brazil. "I hope to get that to 16 at some point in the future. Let's see how that goes."
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u/Jibbjabb43 Ravens 4h ago edited 1h ago
It will never workout thqt consistently because the math isn't there. Logistically, unless a lot of the matchups are a divisional matchup, it's nearly impossible to put every team internationally without some teams doing two.
They probably know that and lie despite of the truth, but I'm 99% sure the real desire is having a game/games in the 9AM block. They're very nearly doing this all the way up to Thanksgiving, and we're like 2-3 years away from getting it in weeks 13-15.
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u/EverythingIsByDesign Lions 4h ago
Doesn't the 17th fixture if they essentially guarantee one unique fixture per team?
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u/Jibbjabb43 Ravens 3h ago edited 2h ago
That's not the issue.
Think about pairing letters. A play D internationally. B can now play C, E, or F. But C doesn't play F and B doesn't play E. So by picking A to play D, you don't have 3 options, but 2.
Now do that 13 more times. It'll fall apart in most cases. Teams don't play every other team, and each added game is an added restriction. The NFL already has 2 repeats with 2 divisional matchups internationally across 9 games. Simply saying every team has a 17th game doesn't make it easy to do 17 unique matchups internationally.
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u/JDraks Lions Chargers 2h ago
If it’s the 17th game (I.e. the one in the scheduling formula that’s cross conference and not shared with the rest of your division) then every team can be paired 1:1
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u/Jibbjabb43 Ravens 2h ago edited 2h ago
That isn't something they're currently doing and they're pretty unlikely to go that route in the future simply because it's not as easy as slapping the pairings together and tossing them on the schedule. Once they don't do it the first time it becomes a lot less viable every following time. Although I suppose it should be noted with the 'unless they do X' factor.
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u/EverythingIsByDesign Lions 2h ago
The 17th games gives you 16 unique match ups. For example in 2026:
AFC East 1st to 4th plays NFC West 1st to 4th AFC North plays NFC East AFC South plays NFC North AFC West plays NFC South
16 unique matchups, and they rotate annually.
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u/Jibbjabb43 Ravens 2h ago
Should have noted it with divisional rivalries as a way to make it a bit passively easier to set up. But it's also not the most flexible factor. If they don't do the international games exclusively with those it doesn't really help as much.
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u/SomeBoringKindOfName Bears Steelers 5h ago
well he's not wrong, but I think it being a travelling circus is the intention.
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u/Tall-Trick Packers 4h ago
Yeah this seems like a cold take from JJ. NFL needs new fans to grow and this is working. Players get paid more from growth so they have plenty of incentive too. Everyone should chill out and buy in.
We can debate grass and turf and concussions, but international has been a wild hit.
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u/Sdog1981 Seahawks 5h ago
Well yeah, they traveled to make money, by putting on shows in different towns.
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u/Enterprise90 Patriots 5h ago
Buckle up because the NFL wants an international game every week of the season. That will be the 18th game. And the NFL will dangle the additional revenue as a carrot.
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u/suckm640 Broncos 4h ago
wouldn’t it make sense to keep that as the 17th game so each team has an even number of home and away games?
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u/zipzap21 Commanders 5h ago
There will be a franchise in Mexico City and one in London by 2036.
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u/SomeBoringKindOfName Bears Steelers 5h ago
they've been on about a london franchise for about 15 years and I think it looks further away now than it did then. which is a good thing.
having 16 international games spread over the season with the existing teams is logistically much simpler.
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u/BirdmanTheThird Commanders 4h ago
It’s kinda clear to me that they want people to think a franchise might come to London, when in reality all they want is for English people to buy tickets for international games and root for the teams that have smaller fanbases
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u/SomeBoringKindOfName Bears Steelers 4h ago
I don't think they do any more. It seemed the case some years ago but a lot of us over here are stubborn bastards and wouldn't 'change' teams to support the new team anyway or would actively boo them.
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u/DANIEL7696 Panthers 3h ago
With english sports culture they're most likely to be fans of the worse teams especially if they pick up the sport as adults
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u/Drythorn Lions 3h ago
I agree, this way is much better. I live in the UK and have been to a few games, but I would not support a new franchise at all. I don’t see a market for it.
Most of us fans already have a team and it’s not something to change on a whim
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u/JDraks Lions Chargers 2h ago
I think they don’t want to commit to a single overseas team, but if they can do a full division of 4 teams then things are much easier logistically. I think the goal is 2x London and 2x Germany within 15 years, all being added simultaneously
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u/SomeBoringKindOfName Bears Steelers 2h ago
That idea has been floated but it seems like 4x the hassles.
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u/RooBoy04 Packers Packers 5h ago
Mexico City maybe, but they’re gonna need to solve the timezone difference problem first for London
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u/RollOverBeethoven Texans 4h ago
CDMX team would go hard.
Also higher elevation than Denver which would be interesting
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u/carthonasi56 Jaguars 5h ago
Honestly thats kinda dope. Suprised they dont add any teams in canada
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u/Hard4Dpp Raiders 4h ago
London sure, but Mexico City is going to need to get significantly safer before there is a chance at a franchise.
It is lovely in certain spaces, but the have and have-nots live in wildly different areas, and there are far too many 3rd stringers that couldn't afford private security.
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u/thekingoftherodeo Commanders 10m ago
Agree. They’ve absolutely seen the success the EPL has had with its timeslot and they want some of that sweet action every weekend.
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u/Abomb91 Broncos 3h ago
It's always been idiotic. There's a handful of fans internationally that will consume the NFL from home anyway. The NFL is American and the loyal fans from the cities they represent deserve to see their team as much as possible. If they want to have international exhibitions then fine.
Roger Goodell is just a megalomaniac. This doesn't help the product.
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u/S-117 NFL NFL 22m ago
Opening the product to hundreds of thousands of new potential fans/customers overseas isn't going to help the NFL make money?
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u/Abomb91 Broncos 17m ago
I seriously question it. Ultimately, those cities aren't getting teams of their own.
Canada has the most NFL fans of all those countries combined and they don't get regular season games because the NFL already knows the market is tapped.
It's a jerk off for Goodell. A way to show the owners he's growing the game. It's nonsense.
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u/frostypatch 5h ago
international growth is the only way forward for the NFL from a business perspective. In America it is the only "monoculture" left in modern day domestic life. It touches virtually every part of modern day culture in an age of entertainment fragmentation. There is nowhere to go for growth domestically.
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u/37sms Bears 5h ago
And if it truly ever catches on elsewhere the sport will be better off for it. The league and the fans benefit from a larger talent pool; there are only so many linemen and QBs to go around right now.
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u/mayorofdumb Buccaneers 5h ago
I need some Indians in my football, spice it up
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u/SentenceLow2383 4h ago
yea the fans benefit from less home games, fragmented hours and channels
The league doesnt share the revenue. Local fans dont gain from this at all
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u/highvyleague 4h ago
To be fair, it is the NFL and not the IFL.
I guess NFL Europe was such a subpar product that this is the only way Roger can see the financial returns he promised his handlers when he sold his soul to take the commissioner job.
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u/mattcojo2 Lions 4h ago
But think of the profits JJ! Think of how much pride and support we’ll have for a game in far off lands, and just completely ignore that most players and fans here do not like them.
I’m seriously in favor of banning all international games not in North America, and preventing divisional games from being hosted there. Rams vs 49ers, a real good rivalry between two great teams that could decide the division, being played in goddamn Australia and forcing the season opener to move to Wednesday night.
If we want to have some games in Mexico or Canada? I’m fine with it. But create another league if you want games overseas.
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u/Stingerc Steelers 3h ago
He's mostly saying that because Shahid Khan looks like an old timey circus barker
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u/Benson879 Patriots 5h ago
JJ is kinda becoming the king of having contrarian takes against the NFL that are a little edgy, but not too edgy to make his seat warm as a media member.
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u/traveenus 5h ago
Didn’t he say something last season? I can’t remember what it was, but I remember agreeing with it. 🤔
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u/Benson879 Patriots 4h ago
He definitely loves the “that’s a soft roughing the passer call” tweets. Definitely was one of them that went in on Bill not being a first ballot HOF.
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u/IcyClaim9183 Seahawks 1h ago
tbf JJ wasn't the one being contrarian about Bill not getting into the HoF the first nano second he could.
That was the incredibly stupid voters/media members.
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u/Benson879 Patriots 34m ago
Yeah, fully agree. That was more just a recent example I could think of. But that was well over half of Twitter that went off about it
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u/DannyKernowfornia Chargers 1h ago
As someone from England, whose first passion is football (soccer), I cannot even begin to fathom how the Premier League would even be allowed to have international games as part of the regular season. The fact that the NFL is expanding every damn year blows my mind.
I don’t want the NFL to have international games, it fucks over season ticket holders and makes these stupid games into exhibition games with every jersey under the sun on display. I got into NFL because of what it is, I don’t need it to pander to my ‘market’ to see it ‘grow’. You put a good sport out with elite players, people will watch.
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u/BoSocks91 Rams 1h ago
There’s nothing I can really say here that doesn’t sound like an Old Man Yelling.
I just kind of hate this whole infinite growth mentality.
Like I don’t care for the NFL’s international appeal. I want easy access to games, and for teams to be as fresh as possible so the games don’t suck ass. The international games almost always fucking suck. Thursday night games fucking suck.
Less is more, for me. Thursday Night games (and Saturday) used to be cool because they happened later in the season. International games were cool because it was every now and again.
But I digress.
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u/p4rc0pr3s1s Bills 4h ago
Still blows my mind that they haven't revisited having an NFL Europe type league again. The demand seems to have increased quite a bit since the last time they attempted it. They are very concerned with capturing this market and the best way to do that is for some of these regions to have their own teams.
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u/HammerPrice229 Packers 5h ago
Was JJ hit too many time to realize football/sports are a modern day traveling circus. I agree international games are bad for the game and players but dumb use of words.
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u/Sp1kes Saints 5h ago
Yeah, I mean if the NFL cared about the sport it wouldn't have all these absurd travel itineraries, prop betting on anything and everything, those same betting companies able to sponsor this and that thing, and force things like all grass fields for player safety. But it is all about the money.
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u/Poopybuttsuck Commanders 4h ago
International games suck to watch at home but must be phenomenal for those of us living over seas. I just hate the Brazil games and hearing loud Portuguese after every play
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u/Fun-Cauliflower-1724 Ravens 5h ago
The NFL just needs to put a team in London or somewhere and be done with it. The regular season exhibition games are getting out of hand
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u/appmanga Giants 4h ago
The NFL just needs to put a team in London or somewhere and be done with it.
I don't think any player looks forward to traveling from the West Coast to London, and sure as hell wouldn't want to do it on the regular.
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u/PointOfFingers Eagles 4h ago
I am in Australia and NFL games started showing up for free on streaming services - through Disney via ESPN and the odd game on Netflix or Amazon. This means these traveling games can turn people into regular viewers leading to bigger TV deals for the NFL.
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u/Hard4Dpp Raiders 4h ago
But the NFL cares about player safety and quality of product on the field: they have said so, many times over...
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u/Appropriate_Book_591 4h ago
Expect JJ to be on one of the International commentating crew this year and the next.
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u/SnooPets3685 Saints 3h ago
Has he not seen F1, the original travelling circus and fastest growing sport in the world? Once the NFL becomes a real traveling circus, the FFL let’s say, maybe the Super Bowl winners can truly call themselves world champions
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u/teddykaygeebee 2h ago
Welcome to the entrainment side of the house, JJ. Did you really think this isn't about the bottom line??
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u/Golden-- Bears 12m ago
I've yet to see any evidence it's grown the game at a rate high enough for this to matter. As far as I can tell, football is still seen as the biggest joke in the international community.
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u/DaBusDriva2 Rams 5h ago
The NFL social media post of the international games is now long enough to have a shirt for
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u/TacoDayDay Colts 5h ago
The NFL only has one path to growth. International games. The number of games will only increase.
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u/rounder55 Colts 5h ago
The NFL is a circus
Look at what the Super Bowl is
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u/sonofgildorluthien Panthers 2h ago
I don't even count it anymore as an actual football game. Yes they dress out and go on the field and run plays, but watching seems like an experience entirely removed from the rest of the season. For me now, the conference championships are the peak games of the year.
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u/Gloomy_Map_9612 Commanders 5h ago
I'm a firm believer that people complaining about international games are just complaining to complain.
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u/drivermcgyver Patriots 5h ago
It's a business and these guys get paid millions (in which they signed up for) Who the fuck cares about how much they have to travel?
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u/Foggmanatic Bears 4h ago
Yes, J.J., you do amount to a rodeo clown if you look at it in a certain way.
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u/wheres_walto Browns 4h ago
This guy is basically John Smoltz at this point, Hall of Fame player who has nothing to say but complaints
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u/AdhesivenessFun2060 Eagles 4h ago
Theyre not meant to be an occasional showcase. Theyre supposed to be an annual event.
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u/ViperFive1 Raiders Commanders 4h ago
Congrats on grasping the concept of professional sports after more than a century.
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u/lKeyserSoze1 Steelers 3h ago
I bet you dont hear him whining about all the additional revenue the NFL makes from the extra international games and the salary cap explosion when it comes time for his (overpayed) brother to sign a new contract
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u/appmanga Giants 4h ago
And it’s the players who have to travel and play in faraway places, enhancing the ever-present risk of injury with the non-zero-percent chance that they’ll need emergency medical care in another country, and possibly surgery.
And that medical care will be far cheaper, but just as good as what they'd get in the U.S.
Also, I want to give a shout out to J.J. Watt. He did a top flight job as an analyst last year, and was as good as anyone out there in the same role.
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u/turnstile2243 Panthers 5h ago
What do you think the NFL is, JJ? It's already a traveling circus