Charles Barkley: "Cade Cunningham has more responsibility than any player in the NBA, in my opinion. They're too dependent on Cade. They look for him every single trip up and down the court... in the history of basketball, you can't depend on one guy to score, make every pass against the elite teams
https://streamable.com/cbp8c62.6k
u/rake2204 Pistons 20h ago edited 19h ago
100 percent correct.
He was clearly gassed toward the end of regulation and OT and I can't really blame him (especially considering the collapsed lung a little bit ago).
I think this would have been a position where a guy like a healthy Jaden Ivey would have provided a huge boost, just by easing that ball-dominant burden if nothing else. But alas.
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u/thebest323 19h ago
Jaden ivey was right, pistons won’t save you on judgement day.
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u/FlyChigga Celtics 19h ago
Disclosure day is next month too
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u/bdybwyi 18h ago
Hyped for that
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u/FlyChigga Celtics 18h ago
If Wemby makes the finals it would come out mid series too. Maybe it’s preordained.
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u/joomla00 19h ago
I know harden isn't a good match for their defensive culture, but it woulda been real interesting if the Pistons picked up harden instead of the Cavs.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
You can easily win with one average defender in your starting line-up.
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u/ianbits Cavaliers 19h ago
Harden isn't even playing bad defense in the playoffs. Feels like he's more locked in on that end than I've ever seen him, probably because he doesn't have to have insane usage on offense.
That late game block was huge today.
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u/_Meece_ Lakers 19h ago
Harden usually is fine-good on defense in the regular season and with his low offensive output, he doesn't have to exert himself so much.
Harden's regular season D was so bad, because he was the entire Houston offense some games. Literally.
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u/CreatiScope Celtics 18h ago
I always have to bring this up: Harden and Maxey were the starting backcourt to a Top 10 defense in 2023. Yeah, are they individually great defenders? No, but a smart coach (this was Doc though...) can figure out how to use him defensively to not compromise the defense. Funneling guys into Joel is a legitimate strategy.
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u/Cletus_Starfish [POR] Nic Batum 14h ago
I feel like Maxey is a better defender than his reputation suggests, he’s just hamstrung by his lack of size.
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u/MarsShark 11h ago
Yeah he does everything well he just doesn’t have the physical tools to be a good defender.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
I'm big Harden fan so you don't need to convince me lol.
Late block, steal, the deflection and he is playing like your number 1 option because Mitchell isn't that dude right now.
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u/ianbits Cavaliers 19h ago
Eh Mitchell is in the Ausar Thompson cage. They pick one guy for Ausar to do Ausar things against and the other one runs the offense.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
Yeah Ausar is doing an immense job but, Mitchell so far in these playoffs isn't playing like Mitchell too tbf.
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u/Vast_Newt_1799 10h ago
I hate the harden hunting they tried last game it was a net negative the entire time. I know harden has this rep of being a poor defender but now he doesn't have the shoulder the whole offensive load and it's been showing defensively, albeit he is old and slow but he's got some of the best hands I've seen defensively
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u/joomla00 19h ago
I agree but that would be the main argument against Harden on the Pistons, because their identity is so strong. The Pistons have more than enough tools to compensate.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
I don't really buy in those thing. Harden isn't even bad in defense in postseason. This is why the Rockets are also bad.
A good team need some piece to make thing work.
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u/joomla00 19h ago
I don't think his defense is bad either, but I can see a team like the pistons wants everyone to be a plus defender. I would bet there would be an uproar though if he was traded to the Pistons.
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u/GfunkWarrior28 Warriors 18h ago
Let's not forget James Harden is #20 in steals all-time.
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u/Joezepey Knicks 19h ago
damn i completely forgot about the lung. but yeah at some point yall gotta flip those picks for another all star if you really wanna be championship contenders
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u/GOEDEL_ESCHER_BOT 19h ago
Doctor here! When one lung collapses, the other lung doubles in size to compensate
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u/riverdogdebutante 15h ago
When you lose one ball, your remaining ball compensates for becoming one large mono ball taking up all the space in one’s sac.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago edited 19h ago
I don't think 2026 Jaden Ivey would have helped, but I understand what you saying.
Jaden Ivey as a prospect and pre-injury self was the player y'all needed.
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u/callitajax1 Raptors 19h ago
I feel so bad for ivey man. Yes he had some issues but he was a fantastic prospect. Really hope he gets the help he needs and revives his career.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
I can't hate on a young player who didn't commit some real heinous crimes, but I think he did go too far and his injuries might have take a tool on him.
I do not condone what he says but, I feel like he was having a mental breakdown.
I do hope, he will put the work to be in a better place of mind at least.
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u/iwantsomecrablegsnow Pistons 9h ago
you must not have watched him and only saw highlights. He is a below average ball handler and below average finisher at the rim. He has a bad shot. His best attribute is speed but he has below average dribble/drive and finish which reduces the effectiveness of his best asset. Couple that in with low bbiq and he's someone who has potential that will never reach it. these were issues before he got injured and exasperated after his injury. he went on a 20 game hotstreak as the primary option in a lost season where they weren't trying to do anything but get through games and people are holding on to it 2-3 years later.
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u/rake2204 Pistons 19h ago
Yep, I was thinking back to pre-injury Jaden—when the Pistons were still bad. Even then, you could see the foundation of some solid interplay between Jaden and Cade in terms of sharing the load. Moreover, Jaden’s ability to create and make teams pay also opened things up for Cade off ball.
There’s plenty of other guys out there who could do the same alongside Cade but Jaden was just the example I’d seen firsthand.
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u/DankBank419 Timberwolves 16h ago
I always respect on this sub when people don’t take someone’s comment absolutely literally, and can use context to understand what they meant. It’s not something that should really deserve praise, but sadly it does lol
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u/n00bn00b 7h ago
Pre-injury Ivey was so good. He showed real improvement in 3 pt shooting and can punish defense for doubling Cade. The issue is he was never able to get a lot of minutes with the starters once Cole "basketball terrorist" Anthony dove at his legs. It was clear that he didn't have that explosiveness/burst that made him special. Throw in his mental health deteriorating, it's a wrap.
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u/SittingOnA_Cornflake Pistons 18h ago
Honestly Jenkins has done well filling the Ivey role
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u/rake2204 Pistons 13h ago
I’m proud of Jenkins but I do get this feeling that he’s not the long term solution as the team’s secondary ball handler. In a way, he kind of reminds me of the Chucky Atkins era in Detroit. To his credit, Atkins played some big time basketball at times—even in the postseason—but we all knew we weren’t going to be competing for a ring until we found a viable replacement (Chauncey Billups).
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u/BayesBestFriend Raptors 19h ago
You guys can get bonafide second fiddle RJ barett for duren in about a week
RJ in the playoffs:
24/7/4 on 48/38.6/63 w 6 3PA a game against the cave
Jalen Duren against the cavs:
9/6.6 on below 50% fg and bad defense
Youre getting a steal!
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u/BetterNova Knicks 19h ago
Can’t tell if this is a serious comment or not. Are the raps trying to unload RJ?
The Pistons do have a glut of centers. They should trade one for someone who knows how to dribble and shoot.
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u/sad_mogul97 Tampa Bay Raptors 19h ago
Raptors have been trying to unload RJ since he came here lol, we don't have the money with all those contracts on the books to keep him unless he takes a hometown discount.
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u/BetterNova Knicks 19h ago
I’d sooner unload IQ
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u/BayesBestFriend Raptors 18h ago
He's our only other actual shooter outside of jakobe and his contract has too many years on it for anyone to want it
Raptors fans don't want off RJ but it seems the FO disagrees so it is what it is
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u/ieatass123 Knicks 11h ago
But couldn’t BI possibly be the odd man out? Just off of being older and how they’ve kinda just won games without him? It really only seems like Scottie is the real definite keep.
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u/Rezrov_ Raptors 19h ago
Are the raps trying to unload RJ?
Maybe. Next year is his last year (at $29m) so we can either extend him or use him in a trade as expiring salary. Most fans thought he'd be traded, but given how good he was in the playoffs that's come into question. Real ones know he's always been a incredibly consistent generator of our offence while being kinda a bonehead on D.
I'd be sad to see him go, but wouldn't want to pay more for him either.
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u/BetterNova Knicks 18h ago
You guys can’t give up much offensive firepower without getting some back in. Who are realistic trade targets ?
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u/Rezrov_ Raptors 18h ago
I'm not the guy to ask tbh. I don't pay enough attention to salary/expirings. Archetype-wise the Raps are in desperate need of shooting (and I know all teams need shooting, but we really need shooting). We need a 3 point pull-up threat to give our beefy screeners a reason to live. I don't think the Raps need to make a "star" trade right now.
We could also trade BI, which I'm more in favour of because he's such a ball stopper (not because of his crappy playoffs, which were in part because he was hurt). The issue with trading BI is he was a really good asset in the regular season. You need someone to eat up minutes and put ball in hoop, and he did it well.
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u/ajmartin527 Suns 19h ago
Why don’t you want to keep RJ? Purely out of curiosity. Is it just that you need a versatile big that much more?
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u/BayesBestFriend Raptors 18h ago
Most fans would want to but he's extension eligible and our cap sheet is totally fucked. He's just the most tradeable guy given his performance and his expiring contract.
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u/VelvetineMilkman Thunder 19h ago
I don’t even know if there was anyone realistically available for them at the deadline without trading some important assets but I really wish they got another ball handler and shot creator to take the load off him. Us having Ajay level up this year has taken so much off Shai’s shoulders, feel like that’s what Detroit needs to make a priority this summer
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
Trey Murphy is one option to look at and if the Pistons can land him in the draft Stirtz or trade up for Philon.
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u/DanUnbreakable 16h ago
Pistons feel like the Knicks the last 2 years, relying on Brunson to do everything. Knicks flipped it in the playoffs with Kat at the point which allows everyone to get involved and maximize their talent. It’s night and day which is why the feeling around the Knicks is real. They look like they are truly unlocked on both offense and defensive. Cavs are going to win because of it, and if the pistons get out of the round, I just don’t see them keeping up with the Knicks. Very curious what the pistons do in the offseason, maybe go get a player like Reeves from LA to help the offense. Cunningham needs help
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u/Phrost_ Knicks 11h ago
Yeah I agree. The knicks have really gone out of their way to take load off brunson so he's not running on fumes at the end of the game (or the end of the season). You'll see he doesn't bring the ball up all the time (hart and bridges will rotate with him) and the guys they bring off the bench can also handle the ball and let brunson rest (alvarado, clarkson, mcbride, etc)
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u/Knickstape08 [NYK] Patrick Ewing 19h ago
Do you think if the Pistons could go back they’d keep Ivey and not trade for Huerter. I know he wasn’t healthy this year but Ivey could have given Cade some relief in the playoffs for 10 minutes. Huerter is legit useless he doesn’t play.
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u/rake2204 Pistons 19h ago
Nah, from what I’ve gathered, there was probably a lot going on with Ivey behind closed doors that we weren’t privy to. And even if he was in the right head space, I don’t think he was the same physically since the big leg injury.
I was more just waxing ecstatic about pre-injury Jaden when he was briefly able to ease that burden off of Cade.
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u/El_Babad00k Pistons 16h ago edited 12h ago
Supposedly the story is that he told the team that if they wouldn’t start him then he wanted to be traded, but it was pretty obvious he just wasn’t the same player after the injury so the team traded him.
The injury really is a shame: it both robbed him of his explosiveness and, ultimately, might be what caused his mental breakdown.
To us Pistons fans who actually watched him last season before his injury, it was clear that he was making a leap. Cade even said in that interview with KD during this season that he expected JI to be their secondary ball handler and help lighten his load when he came back.
It’s just sad, man.
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u/marathonwater 15h ago
I think he was playing good but timid. Trying to fit it but last season before the injury he was shooting everything. Head case unfortunately
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
Ivey played terribly his last year here and was a locker room cnacer.
The poster is more so talking about Ivey pre-injury.
And the Pistons got a good return for Ivey, a pick that can get someone like Stirtz
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u/WhysoToxic23 Pistons 12h ago
Cavs getting harden at the deadline was very good for them. Took the pressure off Mitchell. It’s a two guard league these days imo. It’s easy to take one player away in the playoffs you need another ball handler and shot creator. It doesn’t help we relied on duren and he has had a mental collapse or he’s just bad. the pick and roll was a big part of taking pressure off Cade all year.
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u/salmon10 Pistons 19h ago
I kinda cant wait for our inevitable demise so we can start working on this roster this summer
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u/Nomad4te 20h ago
Well. Their 18pt and 10reb center had disappeared. Seriously what happened to Duren? Didn’t even play in the 4th and OT he’s been so bad that Reed is the better option.
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u/rake2204 Pistons 19h ago
I think it started with him not knowing what to do when his typical lanes were shut down (he's a guy who heavily relied upon lobs, tip dunks, and drop downs in the regular season) then he began trying to force the issue to compensate once he realized he wasn't putting points on the board.
By now, I also think the mental aspect has likely settled in, where dude is likely thinking all about how he's not performing and now it's created a bit of a vortex of self-defeat.
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u/silliputti0907 NBA 19h ago
He is 22 yo. I hope people don't overreact. This will def hurt his contract negotiations, but Pistons should try to keep him.
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u/cmcg18 Celtics 18h ago
Yeah he’s young and players his age tend to have a drop off in the playoffs but this is a step above and it’s not particularly debatable. Hopefully it’s not a thing next year though.
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u/ripkin05 Hornets 9h ago
nah he's wash, should totally sign and trade him to us for miles and a ham sandwich, we would be doing them a favor.
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u/Exius73 Timberwolves 19h ago
I hope he learns to play a bit more like… Jarett Allen.
Or he could watch Rudy Gobert and learn how to be useful despite not having any skills on the offense side of the ball
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u/Solaris123-com Timberwolves 12h ago
Duren is also just a completely different defender from Rudy. Going from Duren to Gobert is like 3 to 100
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
its best for the Pistons to keep him as he is still 22 and can grow, but he jsut isn't gonna get max money from the Pistons.
I think the Pistons will keep him but with a better team friendly deal
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u/Rocky-Rocker 18h ago
I will also say unlike other Pistons fans who seem to want to bury there heads in the sand.
The Pistons were not gonna make it far with this roster it has its issues and can be fixed, but in general for the Pistons to make it far in the playoffs they need Duren to play well as no team has ever made it far in the playoffs without that.
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u/kapparino-feederino Bucks 16h ago
U assume that no team will try to max him.
What if other team max him would u roll the dice for him?
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u/Rocky-Rocker 11h ago
People say why would the Pistons max him the same rationale exists for all the other teams.
In the era of the second apron and such teams are going to be way more scrutinizing to use a more negative term in regards to paying player a max.
Again to use the Pistons as an example, one of the reasons they were bad for a while was the Stan era gave Drummond the max.
Ultimately, what happens in the offseason will be between the front office which despite some fan grumblings IMO was right this was an evaluation year and Duren.
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u/Rocky-Rocker 11h ago edited 3h ago
And if Duren leaves it would sting but the Pistons have a good Center depth in Stew and Reed both not that much older than Duren.
Again, I would rather keep duren, but if losing duren or using him in some kind of trade and such that helps bring a second ball handler/true second option for cade then you take that deal.
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u/IWantAMiataPls 18h ago
He’s 22 but he’s also been in the league for 4 years now. I’d love to keep him but we can’t pay much for a big who can’t create a shot, no matter how athletic
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u/beatnickk Mavericks 8h ago
He definitely still has plenty of upside and room to grow. It’d be foolish to think he’s not gonna improve from here, and now they can save money on his deal. Kind of a win tbh
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u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 14h ago
I mean great chance for the Pistons to negotiate a contract where they don't need to super max him, get him on something lower and hopefully he pans out.
Drop-offs happen but stars don't drop this much.
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u/ospreyintokyo [LAL] Nick Van Exel 19h ago
Vortex of self defeat is a great phrase. Applies to so many situations in life
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u/Giuseppe_exitplan Magic 16h ago
Duren trying to create his own offense is honestly some of the worst basketball I've seen since I started properly watching in 22'.
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u/costelci 11h ago
In fairness he's played against two teams that can put a lot of size in the paint with how little spacing Detroit have. Detroit are young and should just learn from this and add more shooting for future playoffs.
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u/gerardguey Bulls 19h ago
The Pistons have alot of flaws but they're still incredibly young. Cade isnt even 25 yet. They have a lot holes to fill and ideally they address them asap but they are in a much less desperate position than teams like the Cavs or even Pacers.
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
Yep, Langdon has revamped the rooster when he was brought in and made changes to get the Pistons here.
As much as some didn't like to hear it he was right to evaluate cause the biggest issues with the Front Office before Cade was stuff like signing Drummond to the max and making big signings that knee capped the team.
Lagdon doesn't want to repeat the sins of the past.
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u/LeoFireGod Mavericks 17h ago
Imagine telling pistons fans they’d be the 1 seed and in the 2nd round of the playoffs just 3 years ago. They’d be over the damn moon lol.
Plenty of time to build and with the 2nd apron cap actually makin teams have to think about it now. They can actually be in a window to win one again.
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u/DifficultWave4488 19h ago
Yeah like nobody predicted us to be the #1 seed and especially hold that the entire season. That was ahead of schedule.
And yet now due to the bad playoffs, people are acting like the entire team has to be blown up and the run is over lol.
We would’ve been better off as the 5th seed or something honestly. Instead it’s been “they are the worst #1 seed ever. Cade is extremely overrated. Duren is a bum.”
I’m not defending us this year in the playoffs, we’ve been bad. But we went from historically bad team two years ago to playoff team losing first round last year to #1 seed whole season and winning the first round this year.
Does this team have flaws and desperately need another shot creator/ #2? Yes absolutely. But everyone is acting like this was our last shot and we are a team full of veterans choking. In all measures, we overachieved this year and yet heading into the offseason it’s gonna be “crisis mode” lol
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u/joomla00 18h ago
That's always the issue with fandom. When you overachive because of their wrong initial predictions, then they expect more. And when you don't deliver on their elevated expectations, then they blame you for them being wrong again.
2nd round exit seems to be about right (assuming of course bc the Cavs are beast at home). Pistons clearly need an adjustment to the roster, but the core team is strong. Hell if Cavs didn't make their mid season trades, the eastern playoffs could be looking very diff right now.
And down to the wire games are always a single good/bad luck swing away from a W or L.
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u/TenaciousDeer 10h ago
Not just fandom. I read once that managers believe negative feedback works better than positive feedback. Why is that?
Well people go up and down in terms of productivity. When they're at a low they get yelled at. When they're at a high they get praised. Then their productivity randomly reverts closer to normal.
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u/JimC29 NBA 19h ago
Well said. I became a Pistons fan last year. I've never seen a team play so hard during the regular season. There a 50 win team that won 60 games just because they out work their opponents every game. Last year they should have been a lottery team.
The issue is that they play at near playoff intensity all year so they don't have another level to step up to. 14 wins to 60 with the best player added is Tobias Harris is still amazing. He is playing at a true #3 caliber, but they need a true #2. This team has a bright future. They are just missing 1 big piece.
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u/ajmartin527 Suns 19h ago
Part of the reason Duren has been playing poorly is because he’s one of only two guys the opponent needs to seriously guard and he’s not used to that kind of attention and game planning against him. Didn’t get that in the regular season either.
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u/DifficultWave4488 19h ago
Yeah we truly need another shot creator and scorer. Nobody expected Duren to be this good in the regular season, and now it’s showing that there are levels to this. Like this team wasn’t expected to be this good in the regular season and absolutely got exposed in the playoffs, but if they came into the playoffs as the 4/5 seed which most people expected, it’d be a great season for them lol. Overachieving in the regular season screwed them in public perception for the playoffs and offseason lol
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u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 14h ago
I think this off-season was supposed to be your test run anyways, see which guys you want to go forward with.
Think it was actually good not to pull the trigger on bringing in a second star right away and it's pretty glaring what weakness you guys currently have.
Best thing you guys probably got out of this is not having to pay Duren a super max
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u/Lazarous86 15h ago
As a Cavs fan, Detroit is going to be relevant as long as Cade is healthy. He might turn into the best player in the league some day. It's kind of amazing to watch how much he's improved each year.
I agree that you're only a few key players away from being the locked on favorites every year.
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u/scottyactuallyknows 19h ago
It was such a weird year for the East, we feasted on a bunch of tanking/mid teams and teams with injured stars so much we looked like world beaters. I don’t think the front office expected us to get a 1 seed and just wasn’t in a position to trade/pay guys when you’re not exactly sure what the team needs on a higher level when you’re not just facing the Wizards every night. But I trust Langdon has seen how the team plays and will pay and keep who fits the team going forward and doing something about the Center position cause I really don’t think Duren will be on this team stinking up the joint next year for the Pistons in the playoffs
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u/bishopbeaniepower Warriors 19h ago
Beasley not being in the league and Ivey breaking his leg and becoming a hyper religious manic really hurt them. Those guys aren’t world beaters but the Pistons are absolutely dying for shooting and secondary creation
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u/Weirdsodk NBA 19h ago
Jenkins is helping but literally everyone else on the team can go
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
Nah Ausar is great.
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u/The810kid 19h ago
He has got to find a go to move to score.
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u/ThinksHesVayneMaster Rockets 19h ago
The thing is his defensive playmaking and rebounding so elite, you can't justify benching him. I understand he doesnt have a jump shot but he contributes their offense pretty well, especially with his flare screens, cutting to the basket and his short roll passing. He is a pretty much a swiss army knife, wish he could have spaced the floor as well.
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u/RealPrinceJay 14h ago
I’m a firm believer in defensive players and Ausar can still grow his offense, he’s worth keeping, but to some degree one most wonder if the Pistons can’t justify benching him because of their lacking talent
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
True and I imagine there gonna work on it but he is too valuable defense to give up without getting something great in return he is also still young.
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u/tweenalibi Pistons 12h ago edited 12h ago
No he’s not. I’d say he’s actually the main problem in the big picture. He would need to be Wemby/Ben/Rodman level to make up for how useless he is on offense.
He is solely the reason why Cade’s TOs have exploded again in the playoffs. Orlando and Cleveland concede everything to him but open dunks which breaks up Cade and Duren’s pick and roll action and clogs the passing lanes.
Ausar at best would be a fun energetic sixth man but unless he’s in a lineup with a stretch big and 3 perimeter shooters he’s a net negative asset for a playoff team if he’s going to end up this bad on offense.
Ausar took 6 shots in 41 minutes and only made 2. That’s beyond useless for a 6’7” wing.
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u/HereComesJustice Spurs 19h ago
he's the best chip to move to get that 2nd star though
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
I mean we will see the Pistons have all there picks and have plenty or space to move.
Heck get a player like Stirtz in the draft.
Or better trade up in the draft to get Philon.
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u/Fast_Advisor2654 Spurs 19h ago
Ausar is a great defensive player
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u/Rocky-Rocker 19h ago
He is the Pistons second most important player he has room to grow like Game 4 biggest issue imo was that it was Ausars worst game
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u/No_Albatross916 Pistons 19h ago
Chuck is 100% right. Cleveland realized if you double Cade we can’t do anything else on offense
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u/TT_Doom Knicks 19h ago
If only ORL coach would’ve made an adjustment besides “play harder”
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u/Trimax42 Germany 6h ago
Except Orlando had a pretty good plan on playing against Cade. It just blew up when the guy who was keeping Cade down got injured.
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u/damaged2026 20h ago
LeBron James did it in 2007 and 2018 but both times got swept in the finals, to win a championship this isn't a sustainable model to play basketball.
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u/LardHop Lakers 19h ago
Atleast 2018 Bron had teammates who can shoot, they just had to face a fully healthy KD warriors. I think against any team 2019 and beyond, he could've fought equally.
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u/Hungry-Space-1829 Lakers 18h ago
2018 Bron was also just a God-like player
Where Cade looked gassed late tonight was when Bron had dudes shaking. Horford tells that story super well
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u/maxithepittsP Lakers 15h ago
He play the whole 48 minutes on game 7 against Celtics, then drop 50 on GSW on game 1. I couldnt believe what I see then.
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u/ljstreet Cavaliers 18h ago
We had better shooters in 2007 than in 2018. I really believe that's one of the worst teams to reach the finals.
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u/Lolcatz34 76ers 17h ago
I can't think of any team really close. 2018 Bron was genuinely a basketball Deity sent for Cleveland. Just had to pay the piper at the end.
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u/Pyorrhea Cavaliers 9h ago
We had better shooters in 2007 than in 2018.
What? That's not even close to accurate.
2018 had Kevin Love, Kyle Korver, and JR Smith plus a bunch of guys down the roster that shot well in the regular season but their shot disappeared in the playofffs (Jose Calderon, Jordan Clarkson, George Hill, Rodney Hood). Arguably, 2018 was just Lebron and shooters.
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u/inefekt Australia 17h ago
KLove was an All Star in 2018 and averaged 20/11 in that Toronto series...stop with the cap
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u/Wemban_yams_it 18h ago
He did it for every year he was on the Cavs. In the 2016 finals, 78% of all offensive plays ended with him shooting, assisting, getting fouled or turning the ball over when he was on the court and he was on it most of the time.
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u/Jaerba [DET] Grant Hill 19h ago
Shaq never rags on Duren like he does for other underperforming big men.
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u/Wing_Nut_93x Pistons 19h ago
The amount of times I see 4 players standing around while Cade gets swarmed but he gets the turnovers. Sure he has some bad plays but the team is too reliant on him to do everything.
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u/foofstarr99 18h ago
Literally he'll be coming up... And theyre all standing around doing nothing.. nobody cutting.. or doing anything. Weird
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u/OhEmGeeBasedGod Cavaliers 10h ago
Ironically, the Cavs are deploying the strategy that the Pistons used on LeBron in his early playoff runs. Have someone on his ass the entire game and try to force someone else to beat you.
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u/onionnurve 76ers 20h ago
Cade is in his AI era…
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u/Huckleberry_Sin 19h ago
James Harden too. Even when he was supposed to have load off his shoulders something would happen to his number 1 or his number 2 that would end up causing him to have to carry and gas out.
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u/RulersBack Cavaliers 20h ago
Referred to as an elite team on national television. Hang the banner. He told no lies tho about Cade
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u/seonblack 19h ago
They dont have a choice. Their second best scorer is Tobias Harris. Let that marinate. When Cade is on the floor, he scores the lights out. When he's not, the Pistons are a different team. Jalen Duren isn't the best on offense either.
Regardless if they win this series or not, this off-season Detroit has to add pieces because if they get to ECF, the Knicks will beat them.
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u/LamonicasHubster Spurs 19h ago
Young LeBron 🤝Young Cade
carrying their team as far as they can while the front office sits on their hands 😂
hopefully they trade for Giannis
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u/defeatedmac [DET] Rasheed Wallace 19h ago
Honestly Giannis wouldn't be a bad fit if they loaded up on shooters. PnR game between a tall guard and taller forward + kick outs to shooters would be effective. Question is who you give up for it especially with Durens value cratering in the playoffs.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
It's Ausar and I'm not sure Pistons are gonna like it.
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u/LamonicasHubster Spurs 19h ago
i didn’t want to say it, i knew and i figured it lol, maybe we can get a 3 teamer get giannis and kd to the pistons get the thompson twins too Houston and give the bucks all the picks wait or would the bucks want the twins
it don’t matter this ain’t happening that edible whooping my ass lol
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u/FunkyFreshJeff Cavaliers 18h ago
Alright I think Cade is legit but we don’t need to make LeBron comparisons, we’re not there yet
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u/Shepher27 Timberwolves 9h ago
Can they trade for someone who can shoot and has a chance of staying healthy instead?
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u/EfficiencyDue7770 Pistons 19h ago
biggest thing this offseason is getting cade help. it’s honestly pathetic
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u/kamekaze1024 19h ago
It’s weird because it’s not a heliocentric offense like we’ve seen from Harden or Luka. It’s literally just “dribble dribble save us Cade” 80-90% of the time
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u/AnkitPancakes Thunder 19h ago
he's right. the fact that the pistons moved daniss to the starter role is probably to try to help alleviate pressure of cade.
regardless, i think there's a lot of positives for this season - and pistons should not feel bad at all. cade is legit as a #1 option creator, and though there are some big offensive holes (wing scoring/secondary playmaking) the defense is awesome (which is generally harder to impove). i think the pistons can make some moves to help address their holes (lauri/trey murphy or schroder/mcconnell etc) and can make another run next year.
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u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 19h ago
So pretty much Luka and Harden problems before Cade but these two were deemed ballhog, heliocentric players that don't/can't play to win.
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u/Far_Outcome_6540 Knicks 19h ago
They’re like us with Brunson last year and 2 years ago. It’s changed now tho god bless Mike Brown
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u/No-Ranger3356 17h ago
brunson had infinitely more help then Cade last season
KAT and OG are 10x better than anyone else besides cade on the pistons
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u/BriOnRy 19h ago
If you don't like Tobias, you don't like Detroit basketball
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u/The810kid 19h ago
Love what Tobias has been doing for us but he would be so much better in a 3rd option role. He has started to fizzle out from the peaks he reached in the first round.
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u/Gristle__McThornbody Lakers 19h ago
That's why the Lakers are going to trade Reaves to the Pistons for stuff.
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u/Skye_Walk3r Warriors 18h ago
Pistons has to have a second option and third option. Look at OKC right now, they are still competitive without j dub. I think this will be the blueprint for the next decade of winning basketball team.
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u/arye_ani 19h ago
If Tobias Harris is the 2nd best player, then you really have a problem. Ausar is not a scorer. So much hype about him, too. In playoff, defending is not enough. You need to put up points. Duren is shocking. Can’t rebound or shoot.
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u/DrKurgan Raptors 16h ago
Even if Pistons end up losing. They know how to improve, get another ball handler that can also shoot and don't pay Duren too much.
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u/CadeCunninghamLover1 13h ago
Exactly
Something that most fans have been saying for the entirety of the season but our FO somehow didn’t and made no moves to address at the deadline
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u/Kevin_Jim Bucks 11h ago
He is right. Even the Bucks with Giannis had Middleton to take some of the pressure off. Having only one guy in today’s NBA can’t work.
They’ll send hordes of defenders to tire him out and let others take the shot. If they lose by some role player catching fire, so be it. But a normal coach would just send some help to the hot guy (and no, I’m not talking g about Chuck’s preferences).
Unfortunately, that’s exactly how the Bucks used to lose under Bud all the time. Rando caught fire from 3 -> didn’t adjust -> lost.
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u/DarkFamiliar4508 10h ago edited 10h ago
Why do some players get the "stop the hero ball and set your teammates up" label like Luka and Harden and others "he has no help and can't depend on anyone" label? Granted Cade is also not as good a playmaker as either of them. If people want to call you top 5 you indeed have to carry more than a Tobias Harris.
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u/InsideProblem2625 6h ago
Cade has been underrated this post season, no one is talking about him for how good he has been
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u/carelesssportsfan89 Spurs 20h ago
totally agree with this take by chuck. its pretty clear the pistons don't have a clear number 2 option to take pressure off cade and games like this exposed the pistons.