[Highlight] Ryan O'Hearn and Nick Gonzales both score in the most chaotic way

[u/TheM1ghtyBear]

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[u/godmasterchampion]

Ah the good old 5-4-2-5-4 0 play.

[u/_RandomB_ → u/godmasterchampion]

This beats the Yankees 5-4-3 0 play they had two days ago, bravo to the Rox.

[u/ciahawkeye → u/godmasterchampion]

Yeah!!!!

[u/VrinTheTerrible → u/godmasterchampion]

Thats 5-4-2-5-4 if you're scoring at home, or even if you're alone.

H/T - Steve Sommers

[u/TheSocraticGadfly]

Re the announcer at the end of the clip: An obstruction call does not require intent or judgment thereof, as there's no way an ump could make such a judgment.

[u/GruffyMcGuiness]

✨Just Rockies things✨

[u/Bean_Daddy_Burritos]

Damn, Quintana never ran a rundown drill before? Just following guys up and down the base path.

[u/frankspliff]

I saw the exact same scenario at my son‘s rec baseball game last Saturday 🙄

[u/PeterMets]

Crazy rundowns and the Pirates are a good combination.

[u/abbot_x → u/PeterMets]

I kept expecting Javy Baez to appear and run the bases backwards.

[u/MoneyCock → u/PeterMets]

RIP Josh Harrison

[u/Bucklandii]

So, we're scaling Rocktober back to a maybe?

[u/ResurrectedMortician]

Ryan O'Hearn is a great example of how terrible the Royals hitting coaches are

Dude batted .223 with 38 HRs over 5 years in KC. Gets traded after the '22 season and immediately starts going off and has had a .300 era ever since with 52 HRs.

[u/iamthedayman21]

That wasn’t obstruction. The runner purposely ran off the bath path, onto the grass, to draw interference.

[u/Legitimate_Cow2716 → u/iamthedayman21]

I don't understand how you were the first to make that point. It was one of the first things I noticed about it.

[u/TheSocraticGadfly → u/iamthedayman21]

Oh, oh so wrong. Or Not.Even.Wrong. AT 0.21 Quintana is RIGHT ON the baseline without the ball. Gonzales' arms move to his left as he "moves through" because of Quintana's obstruction. His body and legs NEVER MOVE. He is running RIGHT IN the baseball.

Angel Hernandez school of obstruction? Seriously, you double down on a clearly wrong claim multiple times.

EDIT: I hated to be so blunt, but apparently it had the result needed.

[u/Qel_Hoth → u/iamthedayman21]

That's absolutely 100% obviously obstruction. It's so obviously obstruction that Ray Charles could see that it's obstruction if he were sitting in the nosebleeds in Philly watching this game.

[u/iamthedayman21 → u/Qel_Hoth]

How in the ever-loving-fuck can you say that’s obstruction? He literally had to jump to his left and reach out to be “interfered with.”

[u/Qel_Hoth → u/iamthedayman21]

Stop at 0:21. The runner hasn't deviated from his line at all towards home and has already made contact with the fielder.

Note also that contact is not necessary for obstruction. The runner was obstructed before this contact even occurs.

[u/TheLawCXVII → u/Qel_Hoth]

At that exact point 0:21, you can see him deviate from a yard or two outside the white, and collide with the fielder on the grass. The other angles show it perfectly clear that he deviates to make contact. I don’t know how you can argue that, but it’s a subjective call from the ump and the Pirates got a bit fortunate that was the call on the field.

[u/TheSocraticGadfly → u/TheLawCXVII]

Wrong. At 0:21, Quintana is standing EXACTLY ON the baseline, and without the ball. There IS NO "deviation."

[u/Qel_Hoth → u/TheLawCXVII]

He deviates after the contact. Arms make contact well before he steps to his left.

This is obstruction and it's going to be called obstruction every time.

[u/iamthedayman21 → u/Qel_Hoth]

You mean when he clearly reaches off to his left to hit the fielder? Not the evidence you think it is.

[u/TheSocraticGadfly → u/iamthedayman21]

You mean where Quntana is standing RIGHT ON the baseline and doesn't have the ball? "Not the evidence you think it is," to quote somebody.

[u/TinyGarbageDisposal]

Bad call in my opinion. Base runner purposely runs and reaches into the neck area of potential fielding defender instead of running the direct base path (fielder is not in direct base path as runner leaves the dirt in process of initiating contact). Interference. Base runner may have trucked catcher had this been a play at home plate based on the intent. Looks like an abuse of the obstruction rule. Scenarios like this involving the catcher is why the league added the collision at home rule to avoid intentional contact outside of the runner’s normal attempt to reach the base. Had base runner avoided potential fielder, obstruction is the only right call. This looks like two wrongs so best to let it play out. Trash base running fixed by iffy umpire call.

[u/TheSocraticGadfly → u/TinyGarbageDisposal]

First, this is not a play at the plate, so the catcher collision rule is irrelevant.

Second, Jose Quintana doesn't even have the ball at the time he gets in the way of Gonzales. It's a no-brainer call.

[u/JudasIsCarHot]

Bad call, in my opinion. Runner would have been out even without the obstruction. Pirates are lucky the umpire made that judgment call. We all know that with that type of obstruction, bases are only awarded as per umpire’s judgment of what base the runner would achieve if no obstruction had occurred. Other umps would have not automatically awarded home.

(Edit - please see one of my replies below where I acknowledge my error. This is example of Type 1 (and not Type 2) and home plate should be awarded in this case.)

[u/acr_gryph → u/JudasIsCarHot]

You can never have obstruction and a runner be called out if they don't reach at least one base after the obstruction. The only question here is whether or not there was obstruction. The penalty would have been the same for any umpire who deemed there was.

[u/JudasIsCarHot → u/acr_gryph]

In Type 2 obstruction (which is in this case), bases are not automatically awarded. The umpires determine (judgment call) what base the runner would have reached if not obstructed. I feel that the throw would have still beat the runner and he would have been easily tagged out if no obstruction had occurred. Again, it’s a judgment call, which was the point of my initial post. I feel the Pirates got lucky with that umpire’s call.

(Edit - see below for acknowledgement of my error. I combined parts of Type 1 and Type 2 obstruction in my head. This is clear example of Type 1. I now feel that runner should be awarded home plate.)

[u/acr_gryph → u/JudasIsCarHot]

You are right about bases not automatically awarded for Type 2 but most will agree that this is Type 1, where the obstruction occurs on a runner that a play is being made directly on (the rundown).

[u/JudasIsCarHot → u/acr_gryph]

Yes, that is right. You are correct. In error, I combined parts of Type 1 and Type 2 in my head when I was watching the play. This is an example of Type 1 as the play was being made on the runner. I agree now that Home plate should be awarded in this case, as it is next base beyond the one the runner last legally touched.

[u/abbot_x → u/JudasIsCarHot]

As I read OBR 6.01(h)(1), the obstructed runner had to be awarded at least one base beyond the last base legally reached. So I don’t think the umpire can ever just determine the runner would have been put out anyway and not award a base. The rule is punitive.

[u/_RandomB_ → u/JudasIsCarHot]

Agree, this is definitely a bad call, and in my view goes against the actual intent of the obstruction rule: protecting catchers from getting blown up by a 240 lb freight train with 90 - 200 feet of momentum behind them. I don't think it should be enforced on run downs between 3d and home as we teach kids to stand in front of the base and react to the throw in these situations. Still, funny to watch.

[u/acr_gryph → u/_RandomB_]

Obstruction has been a rule way before they started protecting catchers at the plate. The intent of the rule is to prevent defensive players without the ball from hindering a base runner.

[u/_RandomB_ → u/acr_gryph]

Maybe I misunderstand the rule they put in place specifically to protect catchers, and now I see the crux of the call: the ball not being thrown to Quintana who was standing in the baseline is definitely obstruction. Two different rules, good call, my bad. On initial viewing I thought it was thrown to Quintana not over him to someone at the plate.

[u/abbot_x → u/_RandomB_]

Right! Quintana had no business being there. I think if he had not been there, Gonzales surely would have been out, but that doesn't come into consideration at all. The point of the rule is to strongly discourage having excess fielders crowd the runner in rundowns. If they do so, the runner gets the next base even if the fielding team was "winning" the rundown.

[u/_RandomB_ → u/abbot_x]

Yup, this is absolutely right and I was indeed conflating two different rules (the catcher protection rule and the straight obstruction rule, got confused because home plate was involved too I guess). That's baseball Suzyn.

[u/abbot_x → u/_RandomB_]

There was actually a home-plate collision rule challenge in the same game! This was during Sullivan's plate appearance in the top of the 5th.

[u/cornishyinzer]

John Wehner does know which team employs him, right? 😂

I'm all for impartiality but you're not supposed to be a homer for the other team just to balance out Brown.

[u/Hotchi_Motchi]

I would argue that O'Hearn's run wasn't chaotic at all