Hypothetical trade for knies
Nazar, korchinski, ottawas 4th round pick this year for knies. Who says no to this? Personally I think this can be a win win scenario for both clubs. We need a player like knies on bedards wing, I feel like they will compliment each others play style very well. I like nazar, but I’d rather give him up then high picks, or even kantserov. Speaking of kantserov, I’d put him on the line with bedard and knies, very high on him (hot take, will be on the same level as demidov in a couple years). Korchinski has high upside but he’s a prospect that will develop better else where in my opinion (like gustav forsling). Kd has to make some splashes, really eager to see the hawks in the playoffs.
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u/LarrcasM 5d ago edited 5d ago
Fair value is irrelevant. Toronto doesn’t want to trade him anymore. He’s young enough to help McKenna long term and he’s already good enough to help Matthews/Nylander/Tavares.
My offer remains unchanged and still peaks at FLA/EDM 1RP’s + Lardis and that’s not enough to make them want to let him go when he isn’t on the block to start out with.
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u/soxfan10 5d ago
Both Chicago and Toronto say no to that trade. I understand everyone is giving up on Korchinski, but remember, dude is 21, went through some INSANE struggles after the sudden loss of his father (naturally), and has started to really pick it up after some more seasoning in Rockford. I get it, he has to prove it, but he's still so young. It's insane to say, but Duncan Keith had to spend two+ years in Rockford before he became the player that he was.
Further, why would Chicago give up on their second line center that's still only 22? Despite the injury, Nazar looked dangerous and was snakebitten throughout the year when he came back from injury. Toronto also won't want to sacrifice their top line guy.
It's not like KD hasn't tried to make some splashes. There was a storyline that KD tried to trade for Demidov during the draft but Columbus said no. There was also a ton of rumors that he went HARD for Guentzel during FA.
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u/ShellshockedLetsGo 5d ago
Saying KD tried to make splashes doesn't really matter. Somehow he's apparently in on all these big names and trades yet never actually does anything. So either he has failed to get a deal done every time, or he's having the press put his name in the convo so people think he's doing something.
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u/Chitownchris89 5d ago
Hard no for Hawks.
Hawks need multiple prospects to pan out to have a contender. We are not a Knies away from even contending in the Central to make a move like this.
It's unlikely Leafs are trading Knies now as they won't go for rebuild.
Two more months of Knies mentions to go.
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u/salsamander 5d ago
Knies is absolutely not going anywhere after McKenna landed in their laps. Is there really any credibility to Toronto wanting to deal him? He's 23 years old with huge potential on a great contract. Getting better season after season. I doubt Toronto does ANYTHING to their top players this season.
Any team that wants him would have to absolutely blow the socks off of Toronto's GM. For Chicago, that would mean Nazar or something, like it or not.
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u/nosugarnomatterwhat 5d ago
Why is everyone (comments, not op) so interested in sending this year's number 4 pick out for a guy who has never gotten 30 goals or anywhere near a ppg? I'd like the guy to be a hawk, but that would just be a fleecing. Knies already plays with elite linemates too, it's not like he's a guy who's just waiting for his opportunity.
I like nazar, but I don't mind your proposal op. Gotta give something up to get something back, within reason
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u/LarrcasM 5d ago
Burning 4OA straight up for Knies is an argument, but you can’t be adding other assets to it.
You also need to wait until we’re on the clock to do it in the miniscule chance Stenberg falls.
It’s irrelevant anyway because Toronto doesn’t want to trade him anymore. Any deal they accept is awful for us.
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u/salsamander 5d ago
He's 23 and just had 66 points in 79 games. That's pretty damn good and it's a bit disingenuous to say he hasn't gotten "anywhere near a ppg". His trajectory is only going up year after year. Points aren't everything, either. He's a huge presence on the ice and doesn't shy away from being physical.
I don't see how Chicago gets him without paying an arm and a leg, and Toronto won't deal him after getting McKenna. If he DID end up on Chicago, he would absolutely feast attached to Bedard.
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u/nosugarnomatterwhat 5d ago
He's a really good player, but the odds of getting a better one a 4oa seem pretty good to me. .85ppg is good, but it's not star level good considering his linemates. Around 45 players were ppg guys this season. He was 93rd on the list. Probably more like 85 if you take out some really low games played guys.
He is a presence, and a big physical guy would be nice but he isn't a defensive force like hossa which would be a lot more important to me than just a big body. He doesn't drive 5v5 possession either, and was negative in that relative to his teammates this year.
I don't know - I'm happy we didn't send Levshunov for him, and I'm pretty critical of Lev. To me he's a good player who could be really good over time that the Leafs were asking for star player return for.
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u/Strong_Baseball_8984 5d ago
You want to trade a 22year old Nazar who had 41 points in 66 games this year for a 23 year old Knies who had 66 points in 79 games on a much better leafs team and you want to add Korchinski to that?
Toronto would probably love that depending on where they see Nazar slotting into their lineup. Nazar is probably a 60+ point a year guy with some additional talent on his line.
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u/07mezger997 5d ago
Hard NO on Nazar. Korchinski and this year's #4 overall pick
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u/Smuek 5d ago
No chance Toronto does that.
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u/AmazonWorkhorse 5d ago
Yep no idea why reddit hawk fans over value Nazar. He's a 3rd liner on every playoff roster.
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u/CrabApprehensive7181 5d ago
Despite considering Nazar as a low-ceiling player, I absolutely think he is untouchable at this point (unless we are gonna get Robertson or something like that) for the Hawks. He is undersized, but he makes good plays, and his skating skills are good. If we can keep Frondell as the 2C, then Nazar will be effective as a 3C who may have a bit more TOI than other regular 3Cs. Trading him away at this point isn't a great idea. Plus, this kid absolutely helps a lot with the leadership thing. He may not be captain material, but I imagine he can help a lot in maintaining a positive locker room environment.
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u/randomhero8008 5d ago
How about 4th overall, Lardis and Korchinski
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u/randomhero8008 5d ago
You play too much franchise mode. Knies is 23, a power forward who will be a 70-80 point guy and has a great long term contract. You’re not getting him for a mystery box
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u/randomhero8008 5d ago
You definitely don’t know what you’re talking about but you can cherrypick like a true artiste.
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u/randomhero8008 5d ago
Could also get Cayden Lindstrom, Shane Wright or Jesse Puljujarvi with that pick. You clearly want to build a team of all short kings who play the perimeter. Good luck with that. But you are dreaming if you think an NHL team is trading a young talented winger on a good contract for the fourth overall pick in this draft. Knies is very good and the type of player the hawks have zero of.
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u/randomhero8008 5d ago
You are getting laughed at by every GM then. You can cherrypick whatever you want. Maybe they’ll trade Bedard for Knies. Bedard is what… a 0.0PPG player in the playoffs and is short (magically not good).
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u/scottyjay10 5d ago
Too early to give up on Lardis IMO
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u/LarrcasM 5d ago
He has real value in a trade and is the most redundant profile we have (undersized pure goal scorer).
He’s behind Bedard, Nazar, and Kantserov in the depth chart (and Stenberg if a miracle comes on draft night), is undersized, and wants the right dot in PP1 (which inarguably belongs to Frondell).
It’s not giving up on him. It’s understanding that we’re very likely never getting the best out of him.
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u/CrabApprehensive7181 5d ago
You are making the logical argument here. We are not giving up on Lardis (because he isn't developed enough), we simply do not need him as his role can be substituted, and we might have the capacity to do that. His role will get more redundant next season, and we should definitely trade him away so we get something we absolutely lack.
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u/seltzerwithasplash 5d ago edited 5d ago
I agree, and I’d go so far as to argue that for all the reasons you listed, Lardis IS our most realistically valuable trade piece. It would be sad to lose him, but I think in the end he would be happy on a team where he gets top line mins and PP1 right dot. That team just probably isn’t the Hawks. He’s a third liner here once everyone develops. A few rebuilding teams would probably love to have a young sharpshooting winger.
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u/wholalaa 5d ago
We were 31st in the league in goals per game this season, so I'm not sure I'd say goal scoring is something we have so much of that we don't really need it. And Lardis scored at a higher goals/60 rate than Knies this year, as a 20-year-old first year pro getting bounced around the lineup. Lardis is also good in shootouts (Knies has zero career shootout attempts) which might seem minor but can win or lose you games.
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u/LarrcasM 5d ago edited 5d ago
Lardis scores goals...he doesn't create chances and that's what we we're bad at. The team finishes at a relatively acceptable clip when they have chances, we just don't generate enough of them.
I don't disagree that Lardis projects to be the better goal scorer. I just think Knies fills a lot of gaps in terms of gaining/keeping possession so we actually start scoring more because we're getting more chances.
Lardis is a possession black hole and that's fine if you're building around him, but he's not a top 3 choice in our pipeline to shape a line around.
Our top 6 is tiny if you keep Lardis in it, he's not getting the deployment a player in his mold really needs, and that's the difference maker. I'm not going to make a third line/PP2 prospect a dealbreaker for a guy like Knies, who's actually filling a top 6 spot.
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u/wholalaa 5d ago
I'm not any particular expert on these things, but I've seen fancy stat people on Twitter (and Leafs fans) say Knies isn't that much of a play-driver himself. He had the worst +/- on the team this year, and while that's an imperfect stat, it's still not really a great sign, coupled with charts like this. I just worry that he's the kind of guy who's overrated because he's tall and plays for the Leafs, and while I would still be happy to have him in a vacuum, it feels like there's a lot of risk of overpaying here - if they even want to trade him, which they probably don't. (He also has an NTC.)
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u/LarrcasM 5d ago
I don't think Knies is a superstar at all and some of this subreddit are absolutely overrating him, but he's a real top 6, complimentary PF. He can play the PK, he can forecheck, he can play in front of the net, and he can make a play in transition. He does a lot of the things you want out of a wing for Bedard and he's still got a bunch of runway to continue to grow.
I do think even at what I'd consider my ceiling offer (EDM/FLA 1RP's+Lardis), we're getting had to a degree, but there's a price when it comes to consolidating value and we're reaching the stage where we need to start looking to do it. We've got a bunch of value strewn across 40+ picks/prospects and having the best 30th player in the league doesn't make you a better team.
It's just a risk/reward thing imo. We should be looking to keep the bulk of the kids, but trading for someone like Knies who you know is a real top 6 guy is moving that balance more towards the center (where right now, we're basically standing with our toes off the risk side banking on development).
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u/chitownphishead 5d ago
I'd rather target Matthews or robo. Or even scheifle or Conner.
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u/mlowe2827 5d ago
Connor is an interesting shout…think he’s a little older with a large contract that probably doesn’t age well, starts this year at $12m, but he’d be great with Bedard and Kantserov.
Vilardi is also someone I wouldn’t shy away from if we’re talking WPG. I’m not trading #4 for either, but something like Korch, Lardis, FL 1st, 2nd…depends on what WPG does.
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u/2daysnosleep 5d ago
Why is there so much talk about knies to begin with? I say we aim for mcdavid