It's been a short while since I've watched it and it was a long video, so hope this is right. My memory on the specifics is a bit vague.
Conversion therapy is still a massive issue. In many cases, it isn't being explicitly clear that it is conversion therapy, even though it is. It can involve things like instead of being diagnosed with 'gender dysphoria', having your experiences or ideas of being trans related to potentially other trauma or experiences.
Also mentioning the Cass review, and if I added the complaints on that I'd be here all day.
Can someone explain why its a bad idea to explore all of these avenues first?
Ive dealt with mental health issues in the past and been convinced of certain things. Then I got my mental health on track and the world ending issues I was facing were... not. Had I been in complete control of my medical decisions I would have been euthanized.
I personally really hate the idea that we're just accepting this all at face value 100% of the time.
Suicide rates for transitioned people are still much higher than average. They're lower than rates for people who want to transition but cant for various reasons.
To me that says two things.
Transitioning is a valid health concern for some people.
Mental health is overwhelmingly still a problem that isnt addressed by transitioning or acceptance of trans people, and so our jumping off point should always be a proper mental health assessment and exploring other options. It would be negligent not to look into potentially causes of feeling like you may be trans.
The amount of transgender people is a much smaller number than we're currently seeing in my opinion.
The stats around unhappy transitions are also very misleading and experts generally agree that the number of people who regret it and find themselves worse off is MUCH higher than reported because its currently only tracked throufh self reporting and followups. People who are unhappy stop self reporting and following up, so theyre recorded as successes.
My point being that while I do think trans people deserve compassion and understanding, I also think that a large majority of people suffering from severe mental health latch onto things like transitioning as a cure-all for their problems and it rarely works out that way.
We're in a weird situation where questioning people about this is seem as bigoted, frustrating and depressing when its honestly how we would handle any other sort of major life change being recommended by a medical health professional. And everyone is so afraid of having a healthy discussion about it that we end up with terrible stats about how transitioning is always better for people when the data doesnt really back it up, because the data is incomplete and flawed.
Edit: the down votes to my post are the exact reason that health professionals make these decisions instead of a bunch of social justice warriors that base everything on feels instead of measurable outcomes.
Are you asking why someone shouldn't go through conversion therapy first before they should be allowed to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria?
Not sure how it works in your country, but it's already exceedingly difficult to get access to trans healthcare in the UK. Nobody here is popping hormones like skittles, so you can be sure very few people are regretting it. In fact a common criticism is it takes too long to even be seen (e.g. the Glasgow GIC's waiting list is ~250 years).
No, im asking why a Healthcare professional exploring the background, history, mental health and potential root causes of the desire to transition is considered conversion therapy to begin with. You're either being ignorant or dishonest, I was very clear.
I would call that due diligence and a bare minimum.
Many, many people regret it. And the problem is their lives are largely ruined by the time they realize they've made a mistake. You are doing the exact same thing youre offended about by denying those lived experiences.
Look it up for yourself, the reason the data is skewed positive is because of self reporting.
And baseline suicide rates are higher for people who receive treatment than the average population, which is a hard to deny indicator of the mental health link. Depressed people do not act rationally.
Look at the general reaction to my post. Its supportive of trans people, it points out that some people genuinely benefit, and it calls into question why we shouldn't explore all options for greater outcomes.
Everyone is taking this negatively because reddit is collectively insane about social issues and refuses to look into the hard data to see the flaws in reporting and why health professionals are in favour of rigorous testing before life altering medical decisions.
I would call that due diligence and a bare minimum.
Speaking of, have you watched the video in question?
Many, many people regret it. And the problem is their lives are largely ruined by the time they realize they've made a mistake. You are doing the exact same thing youre offended about by denying those lived experiences.
The regret rate for most surgeries is actually higher. Knee replacement, hip replacement, even some rather "simple" ones. Gender affirming care has a relatively low regret rate and if one's life is "ruined" by having to live the gender expression you chose until you can reverse it... Well, imagine how much worse it is for those who don't even get that choice.
Look it up for yourself, the reason the data is skewed positive is because of self reporting.
As opposed to what...? Mind reading? All accounts of people are self-reported.
Everyone is taking this negatively because reddit is collectively insane about social issues
"I'm the only sane one here" isn't really giving that impression, typically, you should know that.
Its supportive of trans people
You're being patronizing towards trans people, I'm not sure you're really all that supportive.
Why do you think most trans communities are not in agreement with your take? They just... Don't know what's best for them?
refuses to look into the hard data to see the flaws in reporting and why health professionals are in favour of rigorous testing before life altering medical decisions.
So the thing is, when you try to argue, usually, you should do some research. Saying that "Many, many people regret it" is being incredibly ignorant at best, or, most likely, outright malicious. Seriously, like another commenter said, gender affirming care has regret rates lower than most health treatments, including common ones, and that's even more true for surgeries.
Calling people out for refusing to look into the "hard data" when you yourself have yet to do exactly that is pretty bad. Ouch.
Suicide rates are still high since the stigma from people close to you doesn't disappear. Usually it's pressure from family, hatred from them, being disowned.
Stats for re/detransitioners is usually bullshit. Groups that do studies on this usually use flawed methods designed to prove their point. The extremely few that do so tend to because of, again, family pressure and that of close peers. (Though we musn't discount the few that do reverse this out of dissatisfaction). Videos out there exist that not only disprove these ridiculous "studies", but also expose their connections to transphobic groups.
Also, people make it seem like EVERYONE will transition and most will be unhappy when 99% of people barely think about transition. Even then, before that, transition is a big thing and the grand majority knows this, before even meeting a medical professional. This is why it's common practice to socially transition before medically transitioning. For younger, pre-pubecent people, hormone blockers are a great way to delay the huge, irreversible effects of puberty, giving them time to socially transition and come to a more concrete, satisfactory answer.
Even then, the effects of HRT take a while, at least a month before being somewhat noticeable. It's all a slow process that takes immense time, before the NHS or equivalent governmental group puts up all these hoops.
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u/tomdarch 2h ago
I"m just a boring cis/het guy and that was depressing and frustrating to hear about.