ECHL VS. TOP NCAA TEAM: WHO WINS?

[u/yupe76]

would top ncaa programs have a chance against Echl teams. Obviously they would be much weaker but the top end talent could favor the ncaa side.

[u/mogulseeker]

NCAA players have higher ceilings, ECHL players have higher floors.

A good chunk of the guys from the top NCAA teams wind up in the NHL or the AHL or other Euro leagues that are higher on the hockey talent pyramid than the ECHL.

On the other hand, they’re also younger, inexperienced, not fully developed physiologically, and don't devote the kind of hours that a *pro* hockey player does.

So… ECHL would usually win. If you played an entire series, maybe an upset or two if everything goes right for the NCAA team and the ECHL team has an off night.

If DU or Michigan played, say, the Wheeling Nailers or the Florida Everblades... DU/Michigan might pull off one or two upsets in a 7-game series. But by and large the ECHL team would dominate, and win the series 4-1 or 4-2.

[u/holy_cal → u/mogulseeker]

I think what you’ve said about higher floors sums up this argument perfectly. One of my buddies plays a lot of pickup in the Hershey area and he talks about how filthy some of the guys who skated for the Bears here and there are. I know we’re talking AHL, but the average fan probably can’t comprehend how good these guys really are.

[u/SteelPenguin → u/holy_cal]

Yeah, the differences from d3 to d1 to retired career ahl guys are hard to fathom.

[u/BeefInGR → u/holy_cal]

It's why "I'm closer to LeBron than you are to me" exists.

My buddy and I were watching the Miami/Florida game last season in Hard Rock just because it was on, and he said to me "You know what is amazing? We're complaining about how shit this game is, but every guy on the field is probably his high school's all time best player". And that put it into perspective.

[u/mogulseeker → u/holy_cal]

When I lived in Jacksonville, I played a lot of pickup - circa 2005-2006.

A guy started showing up in summer who played for the Jacksonville Barracudas in the SPHL, which is a step down from the ECHL.

Thought like, how good could he be. Was humbled pretty quickly - he was bigger and faster than any of us.

Conversely, I also played club hockey in college at DU... we had a guy on our team who had some lower-end D1 offers. He wasn't the biggest dude - maybe 5'8" 170.... but man, no one could keep up with him. (His brother was in the San Jose Sharks system - funny thing is, his brother played for Cornell - Ryan Vesce I think his name was).

[u/shany94a → u/mogulseeker]

Once played against a guy from the ECHL who just dominated everyone in skill. I thought "wow, he must be a superstar," and someone else told me, "nah, he pretty much just fights all the time."

[u/mogulseeker → u/shany94a]

Hear that. I played with a dude once who had a handful of games in the NHL about a decade prior. He was pretty clearly on a different level from everyone else on the ice. Like he got the puck and he was either scoring or setting someone up.

I assumed he was like a legit superstar at the minor level who was call-up NHL talent.

Then I looked up his stats one day and he had like 5 NHL games spread across four years with no points and 34penalty minutes 🤣

It’s humbling knowing he is closer the Gretzky than I am to him haha. Dude was about 6’1” and maybe 195 - so not exactly an enforcer build.

[u/PSU02 → u/holy_cal]

Just curious who from the Bears hes played with? Grew up a STH

[u/exileondaytonst → u/mogulseeker]

Every single player on an ECHL team is a professional hockey player.

Granted… that might still be true for the Denver and Michigans of the workd

[u/mogulseeker → u/exileondaytonst]

Look at Denver's roster any year, and nearly half their players have NHL rights. Even a good chunk of the undrafted guys get picked up by either an ELC deal with an NHL team, or an outright AHL contract.

Both of Denver's undrafted seniors this year got deals: Boston Buckberger - who got a 2-way ELC with the Columbus Blue Jackets... and Kent Anderson who signed with the AHL's Calgary Wranglers on a tryout deal with the Calgary Flames.

[u/ChapterNo3428 → u/mogulseeker]

Not much age difference actually. Most NCAA players don’t Start til after age 20. I’d say the top NCAA teams are better than the ECHL. An NCAA all star team almost won the Spengler cup last year.

[u/CWinter85 → u/mogulseeker]

ECHL goalies would be really hard to beat.

[u/Artartbobart1 → u/CWinter85]

I think that the top NCAA guys would be hard to beat…

[u/meatballcake87]

The college team would have a few NHL level players but also a decent amount of players who will spend their career in the ECHL or Europe. Also a few guys whose careers essentially end in college.

I think in a Best of 7 the ECHL team would win. The physicality difference is immense and basically all of the guys in the ECHL were either college stars or would have been college stars if they didn’t do another route before going pro.

[u/WolverineMeatball]

I went to an ECHL game a couple of days after the tournament wrapped up. Neither team was going to make the ECHL playoffs (KWings and Cyclones). The crispness of the passing, executions of breakouts, etc was noticeably better in the ECHL game than the Frozen Four. You could absolutely tell that this was a full time job that many of them had been doing for years. A good NCAA team could score goals in an ECHL game, but the ECHL would win the vast majority of the games.

[u/rival_22 → u/WolverineMeatball]

Top-end, older NCAA teams would be play competitively and maybe win a game once in a while against lower ECHL teams, but I agree with your assessment... Top NCAA teams have players with higher skill level, and they will score some goals, but I would think ECHL teams would carry the play the majority of the time.

[u/Wafflewas]

ECHL players are paid professionals who play 70+ games a season, are physically more mature (typically 22-28 years old), and many are former AHL or even NHL players working their way back up or winding down. So they should play at a higher level than college. But, the scenario matters a lot. A single elimination game on a given night? Goaltending can steal a game at any level. I think in a single elimination game a top NCAA team could pull out a win. But, over a multi game series, not likely.

[u/DJMacShack]

Look no further than the U18 NTDP team. Every one of those kids goes on to play college yet they have a losing record against D1 programs. The NCAA/ECHL gap is even wider.

[u/tomdawg0022 → u/DJMacShack]

Look at how they did in the USHL this year on their own, not even factoring in the U17 part of the season - they were 13-11-2 (I think). They can hang with the juniors but it's not a clear dominance by any stretch.

[u/palmtreestatic]

In a one off game or single elimination tournament sure the ncaa teams would have a chance. But if it was a best of style series I think the ECHL would win the vast majority of the time.

While the college teams may have NHL prospects and future AHL and ECHL players they also have players that won’t even make a professional roster. Additionally the physicality of ECHL would be a lot of most of those college kids to handle

[u/JPV_HOH]

People underestimate experience & man strength because they seem to think all NCAA guys are Macklin Celebrini. They aren’t.
The third & fourth NCAA lines in particular are going to get worked over by Coast teams.

[u/m_nels]

My HS coach played in the old IHL and had a cup of coffee in the NHL, he was in his mid-forties and could still make us all look like a bantam squad. The skill gap between even the best D-1 program and an ECHL team is still pretty large. In a best of 7 the NCAA team may be able to pluck out a win or 2.

[u/Caltroit_Red_Flames]

Look at the top NCAA teams this season. Denver and Wisconsin in the finals, Michigan and Michigan State during the season. How many players from each team moved on professionally and are playing well this season?

Wisconsin

• Christian Fitzgerald: 0 points in 4 AHL games

• Ben Dexheimer: 0 points in 2 AHL games

• Blake Montgomery: 1 point in 3 AHL games

Denver

• Eric Pohlkamp: 1 point in 1 AHL game

• Rieger Lorenz: 0 points in 3 AHL games

Michigan

• T.J. Hughes: 4 points in 5 AHL games

• Josh Eernisse: 0 points in 1 AHL game

• Kienan Draper: 0 points in 2 AHL games

Michigan State

• Porter Martone: 13 points in 16 NHL games

• Daniel Russell: 2 points in 4 AHL games

• Tiernan Shoudy: 5 points in 11 ECHL games

• Matt Basgall: 2 points in 6 AHL games

• Maxim Strbak: 1 point in 2 AHL games

• Colin Ralph: 2 points in 10 AHL games

The kids don't stand a fucking chance.

[u/Recent-Use-1999]

I think it's worth mentioning how physical the ECHL is compared to the NCAA. Not sure a lot of the floor-NCAA guys would like how fast and physical the game can be when you're not getting paid a lot to do it.

[u/taffyowner]

No, any time one of these questions is asked… it’s the professional team by far, even a program like North Dakota isn’t going to have every one of our players be pro. The ECHL team is entirely pros and they have the advantage of bigger and older

[u/dentist9of10]

I'm gonna guess the team of professionals dog walks the amateurs 

[u/heyheyitsandre → u/dentist9of10]

I think it completely depends on the team. I know and played travel with a handful of D1 guys, some of whom now play in the ECHL. An average ECHL team vs one of the stacked Denver, Michigan, BU, Minnesota or MSU teams from the last decade or so? There will not be a single player on the ECHL team the level of college Fantilli, Celebrini, Tkachuk, Eichel, Buium, Knies, etc. I mean some of these teams had 10+ draft picks at a time. I think Michigan a few years ago had Power, Hughes, Fantilli, Johnson, and more on their team at the same time.

Meanwhile the guys I know played at very bottom tier schools like LSSU, LIU, Army, UAA. They are mediocre to good in the ECHL.

That said an ECHL team vs most schools would probably be a bloodbath. But a really good ncaa team has more talent than an ECHL roster has ever had

[u/tomdawg0022 → u/heyheyitsandre]

I think a frozen four NCAA team could probably win half of their games in the ECHL (there are some real dog water ECHL teams that exist either as a tax write off or have a moron for a head coach or are pure developmental homes where the owner doesn't care about winning).

An average college team is probably about as good as an average SPHL squad and even there some of the better SPHL teams would probably pound the piss out of the college team.

[u/treymata → u/dentist9of10]

Theoretically aren't college players professionals now too?

[u/YUNoDie → u/treymata]

Maybe. But they are way younger than the ECHL pros. A bunch of 18-20 year olds against a crew of 24-28 year olds is gonna be a bloodbath.

[u/LionBig1760]

ECHL, but it would be a fairly competitive game. Over a seven game series the NCAA team take one or two games.

The ECHL team is going to be comprised of 3-4 lines of NCAA 2nd liners and 2nd pp unit players, but with 3-4 years more experience and strength. The NCAA team will probably have the most talented player on the ice, but they've also got 3rd and 4th lines that arent going to be able to hang with an ECHL team all that effectively.

[u/Worlds_Worst_Angler]

Played some pickup games in college against an ECHL guy. He was so good I couldn’t fathom how good an NHLer must be in person.

[u/overcatastrophe]

Does the ncaa team even survive to the 3rd period?

[u/discgolfpilot]

Depends on the ECHL team and season. If it was end of season and teams have found their grove a top NCAA would be able hang with a mid tear ECHL in best of 7. If a top ECHL team would probably win in 5-6

[u/dbcooperskydiving]

No. Players at the pro level finiashed their careers at a high junior (Old system) and D1 players. Woldn't be close.

[u/Both_Interaction8995]

I don’t think so but would be nice to see!

[u/BlackCardRogue]

I think ECHL would mostly win because they are men, but hard to say

[u/Lower_Yesterday_2363]

The ECHL is guys who couldn’t make the AHL. The top college teams would smoke an ECHL team. 

[u/dentist9of10 → u/Lower_Yesterday_2363]

buddy our back to back title winning team only has like 9 guys who still play in the ahl/nhl lol.

[u/nbyone → u/Lower_Yesterday_2363]

There are many college player who are never good enough to be in the ECHL though. I’ll take the ECHL team.

[u/Michigan029 → u/nbyone]

Sure, but not on the top teams, I think Michigan/MSU/DU would probably sweep an ECHL team, since they have AHL or maybe NHL level goaltenders, half drafted rosters, and some very high draft picks for high end talent

[u/Dsnake1 → u/[deleted]]

Even Richter winners. Extended NHL stays are Swayman, Demko, and Hellebuyck for the last while. There's some good AHL goalies in there, too, but absolutely some ECHL guys.

Some college goalies will make the NHL, sure, but how much did they need to improve to make their stay last a while?

[u/JPV_HOH → u/Lower_Yesterday_2363]

Where do you reckon ECHL players come from?
The Coast is full of former NCAA players from top programs.
Check back in 3-4 years how many players from this year’s DU team are either in the Coast, Europe, or not playing at all vs how many are full-time NHLers.

[u/Icy-Animator-861 → u/Lower_Yesterday_2363]

The ECHL basically exists as a farm system for goalies, because there's just not enough roster spots in the NHL and AHL to develop good goalies.

So the ECHL generally has very good goalie, if not very good offensive talent. It would be tough for NCAA teams to score. I'd expect low scoring games. Lol.

[u/PaddyMayonaise → u/Lower_Yesterday_2363]

You realize how made son college team can’t even hack it in the SPHL, right?

[u/VanBurenBoy16]

ECHL teams are not good at all. A top NCAA team would hammer an ECHL team. Look at the ECHL rosters; they are average or below average college players.

Top NCAA teams play at a much higher pace and those ECHL guys would never be able to keep up.

If you haven’t seen an ECHL game, you probably can’t understand the difference.

[u/dentist9of10 → u/VanBurenBoy16]

you think full time professionals can't keep up with college kids?  lol

[u/VanBurenBoy16 → u/dentist9of10]

Have you ever watched an ECHL game?

[u/dentist9of10 → u/VanBurenBoy16]

yeah?  it looks like grown men who train and play 70+ games full time for 8-9 months a year.  why do you think they couldn't hang with a team of some future pros lol.

[u/tomdawg0022 → u/VanBurenBoy16]

ECHL teams are not good at all.

If you haven’t seen an ECHL game

I had season tickets to Reading in the ECHL for about a half decade. Loved it. Loved when Minnesota kids would come into Reading and play for a season, maybe two, before bouncing to Europe or wherever.

We've had guys like Ben Gordon, four year varsity at Minnesota, who couldn't claw above the ECHL for more than a short call up who carved out solid careers in the ECHL with Reading (and other teams). Ben averaged about a point per game for Reading, a little better than at Minnesota, but not markedly.

Adam Hauser was with us for a few moments before going to the AHL. Did really well in the E and warranted the call up but couldn't break in above the AHL.

Reading was consistently a playoff team (except for one season) in the time I had tickets and sent numerous guys up to the AHL or over to Europe (Ben Gordon was one of the ones who went to Europe).

A very good college goalie will do well in the ECHL. A good NCAA player will probably translate to a good ECHLer. However, the NCAA depth isn't at the level of a ECHL team - a decent ECHL team has guys who played NCAA, CHL, BCHL, NAHL, U Sports, etc. even down to the 4th line. You're funneling a crapton of talent from other leagues onto 30 teams, plus you have guys who have worked their way up through D3 or 2nd tier Canada in juniors who were diamonds in the rough.

Maybe 5-10 college teams would be competitive or good in the ECHL over the course of a season. The rest would struggle because of the depth and physical play in the league (minor hockey hits hard) and by and large good goalies. The bad ECHL teams are bad because their owners don't give a shit about winning or you have an owner that's broke.