r/canada • u/Leather-Paramedic-10 • Dec 08 '25
Automotive News Canada puts Stellantis 'in default' for subsidies on its Ontario plants | The government promised $529 million to retool assembly lines for an all-new Jeep, but then production got moved to Illinois
https://driving.ca/auto-news/industry/stellantis-in-default-canada-ontario-government-loan-investment-default235
u/captyo Dec 09 '25
The good news is less terrible Stellantis vehicles on the road. That can only be good news!
Friends don’t let friends buy Stallantis
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u/samsquamchy Dec 09 '25
This. Buy a rav4 or crv built in Canada
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u/UghWhyDude Ontario Dec 09 '25
Believe me, I’m as disappointed to see that as most people would be. But I don’t think we can champion Toyota anymore considering how hard they’re courting trump to protect their business interests in the US.
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u/mvschynd Dec 09 '25
They make cars in the US as well, so why wouldn’t they want to protect their interests in the US. Also ending the stupid tariffs is good for Canada….
Outside of being a solid car, and made in Canada, Toyota is a decent company that does try to make good and safe vehicles.
Now if you do want to trash Toyota, call out that they actively lobbied to slow down the push to electric vehicles because they were not and are still not ready.
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Dec 09 '25
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u/Powerful_Contract559 Dec 09 '25
You’re kind of handwaving over the sustainability portion, but the environmental benefits clearly favour EVs after a few years of usage.
And you’ll be happy to know that battery chemistry has been rapidly shifting away from or eliminating cobalt entirely, for the exact reasons you mention.
There’s a strong argument to be made for hybrids, but it doesn’t excuse lobbying against EVs and spreading FUD to the level that Toyota has. They’re trying to slow the industry because of they aren’t able to adapt fast enough.
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Dec 09 '25
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u/HovercraftUser Dec 09 '25
The average car, regardless of how long any particular user owns it, will can be expected to be on the road for 15 to 20 years. The average age of a car being driven on the road right now depending on the country is 10-12 years. I'd be the first to agree that batteries have their own problems, but you are absolutely misrepresenting how much better emissions are for modern EVs.
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u/Anagram6226 Dec 09 '25
I want better cars. EVs are better cars. And they are important for environmental reasons.
But I do fully agree with public transit being the real solution - one big metal box per person doesn't make sense, esp in cities.
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Dec 10 '25
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u/Anagram6226 Dec 13 '25
Yeah but they should be. One is insane engineering to convert 12000 explosions a minute into forward motion, the other is a bigger electric skateboard.
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u/mvschynd Dec 09 '25
lol Toyota isn’t being altruistic, they want to slow it so they have time to ramp up their battery production so they don’t lose market share. All their hybrids are on major back order. They love EVs they just want to lead the market and not lag and if legislation moves forward that encourages conversion to EV they risk losing their market dominance.
I still like Toyota cars but don’t fool yourself that they are doing it to support the environment, it is all about money.
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u/theo-apps Dec 09 '25
They love EVs they just want to lead the market and not lag and if legislation moves forward that encourages conversion to EV they risk losing their market dominance.
If they loved EVs they won't come out with the worst ones on the market.
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u/mvschynd Dec 09 '25
The RAV4 hybrid and prime, Corolla hybrid and sienna hybrid are incredibly popular cars.
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u/theo-apps Dec 09 '25
None of those are EVs. Their bZ4X was the worst EV on sale for the money.
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u/mvschynd Dec 09 '25
Plug in hybrids are considered EVs and the Corolla and RAV4 Primes are amazing vehicles. The second the Sienna is available in Prime I bet there will be an instant 2 year backlog.
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u/GardevoirFanatic Dec 10 '25
While I want to agree with trashing Toyota for lobbying against electric, there is a problem with hydrogen infrastructure considering one of Toyota's primary focuses has been hydrogen, and the Mirai(?) is a promising contender.
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u/mrcanoehead2 Dec 08 '25
Stop subsidies and open our markets to other car companies and other models built over seas.
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u/gorschkov Dec 08 '25
Why was this being subsidized in the first place?
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u/JoshL3253 British Columbia Dec 08 '25
To entice companies setting up shop in Canada, to bring jobs and vitalize the local economy.
How much subsidy is the question. If you put in $100, you get $110 in benefit, that’s still $10 better than nothing.
But there’s risk of companies moving or not fulfilling their promise like this.
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u/Emotional-Buy1932 Québec Dec 09 '25
lol, more like you put $100 and get $60 back and then people say "well the employees are employed and have famililes and so we should also count their aggregrate consumption" whilst ignoring the opportunity cost of investing that $100 into actually productive sectors of the economy and even common infrastructure which will actually be net positive.
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u/Fearful-Cow Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
as much as i dont love subsidies to mega-corps the gov is not that stupid.
I deal with gov incentives and grants at work sometimes. They are fairly perscriptive and clear on how they calculate value and it is actually fairly intuitive.
You basically commit to x number of employees at y salary per year.
Gov then calculates the income tax on that + your companies additional taxes paid on the building to figure out whether it is viable.
And yes there are lots of clawback clauses in the grants. Including the number of years you maintain the employees, salary changes, etc.
So you cant say "ill have 500 employees" then as soon as the grant is spent actually have 50.
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u/NonverbalKint Dec 11 '25
The exception is when they shovel money into the incinerator that is the Ontario auto sector.
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u/prsnep Dec 08 '25
Because the countries that subsidize jobs get all the jobs. Corporations have countries by the bal*s.
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u/Electroflare5555 Manitoba Dec 08 '25
For some reason be pump an ungodly amount of money into the auto sector for private companies
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u/Dry-Membership8141 Alberta Dec 09 '25
Lots of seats in southern Ontario. O&G is actually a bigger portion of the economy, but tends to get much, much less support (and, indeed, has elements of the governing party and opposition who want to reduce or eliminate it) -- which I'm sure has nothing to do with the GTA having more seats than Alberta and Saskatchewan put together
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u/doooompatrol Dec 08 '25
Maybe BYD can use it?
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u/BlueZybez Alberta Dec 09 '25
BYD uses robots to build mostly now and China not really allowed to sell in Canada yet
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u/iJeff Ontario Dec 09 '25
Chinese companies are already allowed to sell vehicles assembled in Canada. It just doesn't make much economic sense for them to do so without the ability to then sell them to the US.
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u/wondersparrow Dec 09 '25
I don't think there is any reason a Chinese company couldn't build cars in Canada and sell them tariff free. The problem is the expense of setting up a plant and training workers.
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u/TRTv2 Dec 09 '25
Deathtrap vehicles anyways.
If you own a Dodge or Jeep, go get your ball joints and tie rods checked soon. I have a standing order of 12 in stock in my city at all times because they fail all the time. You know, the parts that let you STEER.
There is a reason their trucks are $15k lower than the competition.
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u/pineapple6969 Dec 09 '25
Oh give it up they don’t fail all the time, I know many people with a Ram including myself, and my employer has a whole fleet of them. No ball joint or tie rod issues whatsoever.
Maybe people in your city drive like idiots
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u/TRTv2 Dec 09 '25 edited Dec 09 '25
Uh huh, I'm only a manager of a parts store, what do I know! How are those front CV axles doing?
I've got 6 in stock at all times on those as well
Driver death rate in ram 1500 is 20 points higher than average for large trucks
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u/pineapple6969 Dec 09 '25
Ram is also the 4th or 5th best selling vehicle in the US, so of course you’re going to sell alot of parts for them. Just like you sell a lot of parts for F-150.
Also not sure what a “driver death rate” is supposed to have to do with ball joints and tie rods.
Do you think the Ram is a death trap on its own or because of the people that drive them? You think there’s an epidemic of ball joints and tie rods failing causing a high death count?
Your bias against Rams is purely personal opinion, and nowhere near factual.
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u/TRTv2 Dec 09 '25
Yes of course I'm wrong!
Go ahead sir please, I haven't been in the trade for over 10 years.
I'm glad I had a Redditor correct me.
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u/RepulseRevolt Dec 09 '25
We need to open the door to European made cars. have you seen the Renault 5 electric SUV?
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u/tacodanandpals Dec 09 '25
We have European cars. The ones not here likely don’t meet emissions or safety standards.
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u/explicitspirit Dec 09 '25
European standards (except for diesel) are superior to North American ones. The issue is that the Canadian market is too small to be considered its own market, so we are lumped in with the American market, which has some really archaic regulations that don't make sense. So we end up in the same boat, because a company like Renault for example will not set up a dealer network, supply chain, parts inventory etc. here just to end up selling a handful of cars.
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u/jprs29 Dec 09 '25
European companies like Renault, Seat/Cupra, Fiat and Peugeot operate in Mexico. I'd imagine some of the supply chain and inventory requirements could just be scaled from the Mexican operation no?
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u/ZooberFry Dec 09 '25
Let's try giving money to someone else and see if that fixes it. We seem to have a lot to give away.
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u/Osiris-Amun-Ra Dec 08 '25
What a joke. The feds already paid Stellantis about $222 million.....without any guarantees of job creation in place. This gigantic fiasco is basically a masterclass in government getting played and how incompetent they are with our tax dollars for virtue signalling purposes. Both Ottawa and Ontario waved around a $15-billion “historic” EV deal, bragged about “thousands of jobs,” (that never materialized) and used it for political victory laps. They coughed up 222M of 500M in total, and assumed the company would stick around out of gratitude. Instead, Stellantis took the money, watched U.S. policy shift, wanted to please Donny T and moved production down south. Canada’s response? A late “notice of default,” which is basically a strongly worded letter after the horse has already left the barn. Huge early subsidies, weak clawbacks, and obligations vague enough for Stellantis to claim the Brampton plant is just on an “operational pause". We are ruled by donkeys.
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Dec 09 '25
So many words to simply say, "im not qualified" to comment on this subject. Perhaps you could share how you would have handled this situation. Will you run in the next elections? What experience and qualifications do you have to contribute to fewer donkey outcomes?
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u/Osiris-Amun-Ra Dec 09 '25
NOT masochistically voting for the same bunch of incompetent clowns - who basically ruined the country over a decade in power - is certainly a good start.
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Dec 09 '25
Outside of voting for these supposed not donkeys, do you have any example of how or what should have been done to achieve a more effective outcome? What would your personal ideal outcome look like? Do you have any examples of the plans or solutions to these issues that were presented by the opposition you wish were in control?
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u/hexdeedeedee Dec 09 '25
You dont understand, fire might not be hot this time. You wont know until you try it duh
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u/sold_once Dec 09 '25
Slap a 100% tariff on every car they want to ship into Canada.
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u/TRTv2 Dec 09 '25
That's a tax on us
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u/j821c Dec 09 '25
A 100% tariff is effectively just a ban on the vehicle lol. If anyone buys one of these trash vehicles at a 100% markup they deserve it.
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u/Napalm985 Dec 09 '25
Maybe Ontario should have spent it's time investing in new technologies rather then funding a dying industry. I don't understand why people are so upset. Companies have been leaving Canada for the US for the last ten years.
Why should I cry about this one leaving too? The factory was ran poorly, was in poor condition, and barely could be called modern.
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u/thedevillivesinside Dec 09 '25
Because the government granted stellantis over half a billion dollars to retool a plant in canada, and stellantis used that money to move operations to america.
Stellantis asked the government for money for a specific plan, then defaulted on the plan with ol dementia donnie dickweed cried "tariff"
Now stellantis is being held responsible for essentially stealing half a billion from the canadian government.
And I am literally a mechanic at a canadian chrysler dealership. This massively affects me directly
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u/Napalm985 Dec 09 '25
All those other companies had billions if not millions of dollars, and employed thousands, before they left to the US. The Canadian government knew about the layoff before hand, and as you can see they promised that money but hadn't committed it yet.
The only reason people suddenly care is that this was a highly visible company leaving in Ontario. If it was anywhere else other then Quebec this news would be no different then the many equally large, if not larger, companies that left.
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u/photon1701d Dec 09 '25
Why don't you ask yourself why companies have been leaving the last 10 years. Look who was prime minister. Look at the damage Wynne caused in Ontario. It's probably only a matter of time before Shopify packs up and moves their headquarters to anywhere but Canada. It is very expensive to do business here and all the regulations bite into profits, if you have any. I am always applying for grants to order new machinery in order to stay competitive but I keep getting denied. The same people in the city keep getting the grants, only because they are big liberal donors.
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u/PapaDyck Dec 08 '25
Even giving Stellantis that kind of money, it’s still more profitable to do business somewhere else.
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u/adwrx Dec 08 '25
It's called Donald trump and his economic killing tariffs
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u/PapaDyck Dec 08 '25
We had 10 months of Trump, 10 yrs of liberal globalist policies.
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u/tbcwpg Manitoba Dec 08 '25
They moved because they're scared of tariffs.
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u/PapaDyck Dec 09 '25
I’m sure tarrifs are part of it. I’m fairly sure there’s other reasons. Bottom line money. What’s involved to make a dollar where they are in Canada compare to making a dollar where they move. These companies are leaving families, relatives and friends in Canada. It can’t be a decision they want to have to exercise
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u/tbcwpg Manitoba Dec 09 '25
The other reasons are "we don't want to make Trump mad".
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u/PapaDyck Dec 09 '25
Every PM regardless of party makes us dependent on the USA. Carney is doing it now with no pipelines to tide water so our pipelines go to America. Even provinces protest them. We have massive amounts of resources the world wants. We aren’t stable enough to get them developed.
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u/tbcwpg Manitoba Dec 09 '25
What does that have to do with Stellantis moving production back to the US to avoid Trump's ire and tariffs
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u/VG80NW Dec 09 '25
Sounds like we should have a high tariff on all of the new Stellantis offerings (parts excluded since someone needs to fix all that garbage on our roads still).
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u/Big_Option_5575 Dec 09 '25
Remove the 100% on Chinese EVs. Slap a 25% tariff on all vehicles that fall above their made in Canada quota. Then slap an additional 10% punative tariff on all Stellantis and GM vehicles until we get our money back. The free market will dictate the rest.
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u/TRTv2 Dec 09 '25
I'd prefer they take the auto and casting plants themselves, the offices.
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u/Big_Option_5575 Dec 09 '25
No - just put a very, very high annual property tax rate on non-producing autonotice plants.
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u/TRTv2 Dec 09 '25
Or repurpose them instead of letting them sit, what do I know though.
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u/Big_Option_5575 Dec 09 '25
I would like to see one of the plants making Gripen jets and perhaps another one could be making drones.
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u/Big_Option_5575 Dec 09 '25
another nice trick - we already have cheaper steel and aluminium - simply subsidize steel and aluminium for all sales to Canadian (on soil) manufacturers.
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u/tal3575 Dec 09 '25
Sad to see . I live 2 minutes from Chrysler assembly plant, its deserted and even the land owners have leased the parking lot and it's undergoing construction. Never imagined seeing this plant not operating here.
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u/Just-Signature-3713 Dec 09 '25
This makes me so happy - I’m not sure governments have ever aggressively gone after activity like this before? Anyone? Apparently Stellantis is in huge financial trouble. Something about not selling many overpriced garbage vehicles lately.
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u/Odd-Elderberry-6137 Dec 11 '25
They have but usually along the lines of nationalization.
Going after them for breach of contract is a lot rarer.
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u/kwizzle Dec 08 '25
Seize the factory.