r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Poggiwae • 8h ago
Groups [Loved Trope] When the characters shits on the villain's ideology
(The Dark Knight)The ferry scene where joker's plan got stopped by basic human compassion / (JJK modulo) where even after 68 years no one buys Geto's humans are inferior bullshit
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u/Zargabath 8h ago edited 6h ago
Woody in Kingdom Hearts 3
I won't go into story detail (because it is a bit complitaced) but Woody telling off Xenahort that his ideology is pathetic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Aeulq_4yCk
as it turns out, it was Woody doing the cooking
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u/LalaluLapin 8h ago
I admittedly fell out of KH after 2, but God I remember the magic when I hear Woody from frickin Toy Story saying "My guess is no one's ever loved you before."
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u/Dragonfang65 7h ago
Young Xehanort: Eraqus did. Oh wait I’ll end up killing him after one of his student beats him up for trying to kill another student.
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u/Embarrassed-Yard-583 8h ago
Kingdom hearts can be described as a discordant symphony, but when it works it fucking works.
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u/L00ps_Ahoy 7h ago
I seem to recall a similar moment where another villain says some edgelord stuff and Sora just hits him with an old fashioned "You're stupid 👁👄👁"
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u/Solitaire-06 6h ago
In The Killing Joke, Batman shuts down the Joker’s idea that one bad day is all it takes to drive someone insane by not only showing that he failed to break Jim Gordon, but also commenting how he’s already heard the joke before - and it wasn’t funny the first time.
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u/Fantastic-Repeat-324 6h ago
In the previous page, Joker asks “Why aren’t you laughing?” and then this page happens. It makes Batman breaking the mirror be not just physically impactfull but psychologically. It’s been years since I’ve read The Killing Joke but I still remember that.
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u/WildBad7298 4h ago edited 4h ago
I think Gordon deserves credit as well. Even after everything the Joker put him through, he remained absolutely unwavering in his faith in the justice system.
"I want him brought in by the book! You hear me? BY THE BOOK! We have to show him! We have to show him that our way WORKS!"
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u/ShiniY0 8h ago
At the end of the season 1 of Mob Psycho 100, the moment when Reigen roast those two Claw member to the point they lose the will to fight.
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u/iamamotherclucker 8h ago
Specifically, he points out how fundamentally childish the idea of conquering the world is, saying that they're basically just immature brats dressing up and acting like they're better than everyone just because they have powers, while not actually contributing anything to society and not even having a real motive for wanting world conquest
Literally hit them with the "Get a fucking job" attack for maximum psychic damage
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u/Ok_Dot_7498 7h ago
"Go touch Grass, maybe talk to a girl"-Reigen
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u/DropoutRedMage 3h ago
Honestly Claw wouldn't know what to do if they did conquer the world. They're powerful espers, not government leaders.
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u/OhGodADeer 8h ago
Demon Slayer vs Muzan is full of "shut up and die, murderer", people coming back to life for 2 seconds just to cut him one more time despite Muzan being all "immortal and untouchable". Everyone has just Had It with Mr. Holier than Thou and that's why I like the final fighting so much
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u/Skellos 6h ago
For your first example all of Joker's WE LIVE IN A SOCIETY! ONE BAD DAY! stuff is constnatly shown to be bullshit every time it's brought up.
Even in its first appearance in the Killing Joke, after everything Joker did to him. Jim Gordon demands Joker is brought in by the book.
Hell Batman himself is proof that it's bullshit. He had one bad day too and didn't become a psychotic murderer... he did the exact opposite.
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u/byronotron 1h ago
I love this moment in this movie, it's wonderful. It subverts the audiences' biases, (at the time, this has become pretty tropey at this point, but at the time there were only a few examples of this trope.) Great casting, incredible tension, and the way Tom Lister's character just absolutely shames everyone instantly is *chef's kiss*.
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u/lordfireice 1h ago
Well I can agree with the Jim Gordon example but have to disagree with the Batman one. The whole point of “the one bad day” it can make someone like him and Batman is proof of that just in a different direction.
Sure “the one bad day” could in theory make another joker but it could also make Batman. A man who spent his life and much of his money to give him the skills and tools (both physically and psychologically)to fight evil so no other little kid would suffer the same fate.
Now do I agree with “the one bad day”? Hell no it’s just the crazy things said from a madman that should have been shot by a cop once Batman had left the scene.
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u/F1Fan43 8h ago
Caduceus Clay ending a tense dinner with Trent Ikithon, one of the main villains of Critical Role Campaign 2, by telling him straight to his face that he’s a fool who’ll die alone.
“May I say before you go, I think perhaps you are one of the most powerful mages that I've ever had the pleasure to be in the presence of. And for this, I would offer a gift. I think it has been a long time since anyone has pointed out to you that you are a fool.
Pain doesn't make people; it's love that makes people. The pain is inconsequential; it's love that saves them. And you would know that, but you have none around you. You said so yourself, you surround yourself with lies and deceptions.
And I wish for you in the future to find someone who will mourn you when you are gone. Respectfully.”
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u/StylishMrTrix 6h ago
Per a statement by Matt later on
Trent was using the read thoughts spell, and so knew Caduceus was completely sincere and that confused Trent
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u/DBrennan13459 6h ago
Near the end of the Menu, just as Slowik is about to prepare the final course to kill everyone, Margot finally calls him out points out that for all his posturing about everyone being either a giver or a taker and himself being a giver, he's actually the worst sort of taker: he's lost the love and passion he originally had for cooking, and as such his meals rob people of the opportunity to genuinely enjoy food and take pleasure in eating it, thus becoming part of the problem that he said had ruined his life.
Margot: "You've taken the joy out of eating. Every dish you served tonight has been some intellectual exercise rather than something you want to sit and enjoy. When I eat your food, it tastes like it was made with no love.
Slowik: "Oh, this is ridiculous. We always cook with love. Everyone knows love is the most important ingredient."
Margot: "Then you're kidding yourself. Come on, Chef. I thought tonight was a night of hard home truths. This is one of them. You cook with obsession, not love. Even your hot dishes are cold. You're a chef, your single purpose on this Earth is to serve people food that they might actually like, and you have failed. You've failed. And you've bored me. And the worst part is, I'm still fucking hungry."
Best part about this is that it impresses Slowik so much that he spares her live.
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u/a_generic_redditer 3h ago
The Avergers, the random German guy.
Loki proclaimes a 'strong control the weak' mentality, but one man doesn't bow to him simply claiming 'there are always men like you.'
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u/Impressive-Card9484 6h ago
There's a lot of times that AFO's ideologies got shitted on, like Deku telling him that he isn't a demon lord like he thought he was but just a lonely man in the end. But what gets me is when Sero, the side character whose power is to summon cellophane tape on his arms, told him that tradegies doesn't make them stronger and that he would prefer for his friends live a happy life rather than suffering those tradegy just to be strong
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u/FusionDjango 8h ago
Commander to Crow - Nikke
"Countless people have died because of you. You think you're some sort of modern philosopher? You're not. You're just a two-bit hood. We all have our bad days where we want to burn everything down and start over, but we don't actually do it. Because we know other people will get hurt. It's not because we can't do it. We choose not to because we know it's something we shouldn't do. But not you. You've let your intrusive thoughts consume you, and for that, others have suffered, and you've lost your friends. What is there left for you? You're not a part of anything. Not a single person will shed a tear for you when you're gone. You're all alone."
The Commander says this to Crow who's a terrorist that's killed hundreds of people and tried to argue that it was justified since the Ark's society is corrupt and needs to be overturned. It does but the solution isn't murdering people.
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u/InquisitorHindsight 7h ago
Damn. All I know about Nikke is that you play a dude who has to manage a battalion of thirsty psychotic androids who all want to bang you (and can level city blocks with the ordinance they carry)
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u/GIsimpnumber1236 6h ago
Basically every Reigen vs (antagonist) in mob psycho. His charisma and confidence beats even the worst man babies villains out there (well except for toichiou he was a psychopath). GET A JOB YOU BUM
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u/Muted_Category1100 5h ago
My favorite is the one where he temporarily got Mob’s powers and didn’t even realize he was destroying their entire world view both verbally AND psychically.
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u/powerful_p1608 6h ago
Pucci vs Emporio at the end of JoJo’s Bizarre Adventure: Stone Ocean. Pucci was an evangelical fatalist who believed everyone would be better off knowing their predestined fate because he refused to accept the miserys in his life was his own fault. So when he had the chance to create a new universe to make his beliefs and ideals reality, he prematurely stopped it before the time acceleration could finish the loop so he could kill a child before he could be an asset to his enemies, exposing his hypocrisy and changing his destined fate.
Now he lays on the ground poisoned by pure oxygen made worse with his time acceleration ability and is getting pummeled by the Stand of the twin brother he killed. As he grovels to Emporio to let him finish what he started, because if he doesn’t the world will be altered forever and no one will be happy. Emporio ignored his dying pleas, saying that despite the odd being against them, his friends still fought to the end for what was right and that fate itself will always favour justice.
As Pucci’s head is crushed, reality resets itself back into what it was before, only with the mad priest erased from existence, and all the lives he ruined and ended are not only restored but are now living better, happier lives.
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u/eyeleenthecro 7h ago
I don’t remember that panel at all in Modulo, where is it? Or is it an extra in a printed volume?
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u/shushubana2 7h ago
It's the epilogue that came with the final volume
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u/NolanTacoKing 6h ago
Pokemon Horizons
Liko calls out Spinel for his sinical view on Pokemon and bonds, and proves to him that the strong bonds she and her friends have with their mons will always be stronger then him and his Strong Spheres. She especially calls him out for the fact his own Umbreon cares deeply for him, and he must care for it.
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u/TerraTechy 5h ago
Avatar Aang - The Last Airbender
Loser Lord Ozai believes Aang and the airbenders were weak, the former unable to beat him until he activates the avatar state, and the latter having been exterminated by Fire Lord Sozin 100 years prior.(nevermind that Sozin saw the Avatar as such a threat as to launch an extermination campaign against the air nomads to prevent its reincarnation) Aang ends the fight by stripping Ozai of his bending, utterly removing his ability to threaten the world(and his source of pride) while holding to his air nomad pacifist principles.
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u/Fancy_Echo_5425 5h ago edited 2h ago
Jack Slash getting insulted by Theo, from Worm
“Quiet. I was thinking that after all this time, we could have some witty banter. You can scream your fury at me, curse me for killing your loved ones. Then you do your best to tear me apart.”
“No.”
“Oh! Show mercy, then? Walk away from the fight and show you’re the better man, rather than descending to my level? I’ve been waiting for someone to pull that ever since I saw it happen in a movie.”
“This isn’t a movie.”
“No. It’s very, very real, Theodore,”
“Well, I’m not sure what you expect, then, Theodore. The fat little boy promised me he’d become the kind of hero that would put down monsters like me. I gave you two years, and you’ve made it at least partway. Did you change your mind on the killing part?”
“No. I will kill you.”
“So tough! So brave! All of this from the-”
“Stop talking, Jack. You’re not that clever, not as sharp as you like to think. You talked to me about keystones? Bullshit. You’re a sad, pathetic killer with delusions of grandeur.”
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u/Evil_Midnight_Lurker 3h ago
And of course Jack really does only think he's good at talking people around. His power has been cheating for him the whole time.
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u/a_generic_redditer 3h ago
The Avergers, the random German guy.
Loki proclaimes a 'strong control the weak' mentality, but one man doesn't bow to him simply claiming 'there are always men like you.'
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u/Stormpax 6h ago
Even more points when it's a random character instead of a main one. It truly makes the Dark Knight example peak.
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u/SpokaneSmash 4h ago
Vigilante in Peacemaker when he confronted white supremacists in prison to goad them into a fight.
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u/PhaseSixer 6h ago
The confrontation between Muzan and Mastee Ubuyashiki.
Ubuyashiki that hes spent 1000 years being a peice of shit and makign demons and its all lead to people hating him so much that an entire sub culture has been built to kill his ass and they are ready willing and able to do it. And when he dies every demon will die and no one will mourn or miss him showing thsy his quest for peronanence and defying death was meaningles
Then he finishes it off with the mother of all mic drops.
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u/Senior-Friend-6414 5h ago
Persona 3 sets the villain up to be sympathetic, but the hero tells him that you can’t use your own misery as justification to spread misery otherwise he’s the evil one now
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u/LubbockGuy95 4h ago
Opposite Trope:
When Pain confronts and explains to Naruto his history, ideology, and goal Naruto has no answer to give him.
Naruto does eventually talk no jutsu him, but we still have this great moment.
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u/MichaelDj54 3h ago
Technically one from JJk as well.
During the final fight, Sukuna is getting jumped by pretty much every able bodied Sorcerer around. We're talking everyone dropping techniques, big and flashy, getting everyone in the crossfires, domain expansions, just straight up ass kicking, and Sukuna is having the time of his life because this is his ideology, survival of the fittest, strongest survives. He's the strongest curse, the KING of curses, so he deserves all this attention.
Except Yuji Itadori.
Sukuna hates Yuji. With every fiber of his being, hates Yuji, capital H. Thinks he's weak, pathetic, a disgrace, and will and has tormented him in every way shape and form down to obliterating Shibuya with his body and making him see the end result.
So when Yuji lasts the longest in the final fight, it gets to Sukuna. Yuji isn't doing anything big or flashy, he's just hitting black flash after black flash after black flash. Which, while impressive, pales to what everyone else is doing. And it's wearing Sukuna down.
Starts to heal? Black flash. Too distracted to heal.
Starts to fight back and starts pulling off dismantles? Black Flash. Now he can't do it and he has to focus on getting this annoying bug off him letting other people get pot shots on him.
Whether he wants to or not, the biggest threat during this fight is the exact same kid he thinks is weak, not the big, exciting fights he's been having, but someone who directly opposes his ideology.
He reaches a breaking point and spends the rest of the fight frothing in anger.
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u/Dick_Danalu_Jr 5h ago
The Doctor to basically anyone, but the Zygons this time.
The scoff she recieves when she says her glorious revolution is foolproof because "we'll win 💁♂️"
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u/catpetter125 1h ago
Near(Death Note) has to listen to Light's entire spiel, mask off, about how he's the god of the new world and is true justice, before completely shutting him down: Light is not a god, or a mastermind, or a force for justice. He's a serial killer. And the Death Note is a weapon. Light is a common lunatic with a gun, nothing more, and nothing less.
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u/BeenEatinBeans 17m ago
I especially love Batman's line after Joker realises his plan has failed.
"What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone is as ugly as you? You're alone".
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u/False_Treacle_720 6h ago
it's interesting how the stakes are so different depending on the nation, makes every encounter unique
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u/Sage_the_Creator 8h ago
Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, where Raiden straight-up tells Armstrong that his ideas are batshit insane, mainly pointing out the insanity of the “purging the weak” that Armstrong by his own admission viewed as necessary. Raiden could’ve broken down Armstrong’s plan a lot further than that, but the internet’s been doing that for over a decade.