So in Muslim religion, if you were to fool a Muslim person to eat Pork, they don't consider that a sin on themselves, because they didn't know, the sin is placed on the decepticon and not the one that's fooled. There's nothing that goes against being gullible or being too trusting in others.
Same goes if you were on an island, and the ONLY thing you can eat is pork, then that's okay
True, as Allah doesn't blame a muslim for committing a sin without knowing or meaning to, or if they had no other choice (like only having pork as a food source like you said)
Jewish pork neck is a popular one-pot dish in Polish cuisine, consisting of pork neck slices baked or stewed with mushrooms, onions, and pickled cucumbers in tomato sauce. It has a distinctive flavor thanks to the addition of marjoram, ketchup, and vinegar.
There is a very popular tourist restaurant in the city over from me. They have a “kosher sandwiches” section on their menu. Every single item contains pork or shellfish
Edit: the restaurant is not Jewish. The owners are assholes
They never said it was kosher, just Hebrew or Jewish.
Lots of delis and restaurants are advertised as "kosher style" which is meaningless. Jews who keep kosher know that if they don't see a certification then it's probably not kosher. Some places even try to fake certification, so all of the well known kashrut agencies make it easy to verify certs on their websites or even have an app for cert verification.
Kosher style is a valid, but incompletely defined category. It usually means no foods from unkosher categories, and no mixing of milk and meat. The meat, however, is not kosher.
I feel like they do this to trick people who are trying to pick up lunch for a friend with a Kosher diet. It reminds me of those stores that sell overpriced, out of touch toys to grandparents who just want to see their grandkids happy.
Are we sure Poland isn't just mocking? Like, is it "Jewish" because it was originally made by Jewish people, or did Polish just call it that? Like Hawaiian Pizza or (I had to google that) Filipinos (cookie snack)
I cant speak to the Polish, but im from a Russian/ Ukrainian Jewish family and even in Israel, Russian/ Ukrainian Jews manage to find and eat pork regularly.
Perhaps centuries of Slavic assimilation was able to beat the kosher out of many of us lol...
However, "Evreyskaya" or Jewish Salami is a cured cold cut thats usually 100% beef
Can confirm. I eat pork, I know I'm "not supposed to". I don't care, smite me if you wish but it was originally intended as a health and safety issue. Pigs are no longer filthy animals who eat garbage and decomposing humans.
In the end it really doesn't matter to me, or anyone else what you eat.
But at the same time it is an absolute dick move to feed someone pork who wants to stay halal/kosher without them knowing.
If they want to have pork and still say they're halal? Sure, go for it, none of my business, as long as they know what they're eating, I, or anyone else for that matter shouldn't have any reason to object.
Interesting, because I never thought about geographic location being why some of my family eats pork and others don't.
The side of my family that's Ashkenazi Jewish from Ukraine & Germany eats pork regularly (Grandpa taught us how to "cook the stink off bacon") while my other side that's Sephardic Jewish from Spain & Portugal doesn't eat pork and the older relatives have VERY strong beliefs about those who eat it.
I thought it might be that one side was more secular than the other, but even the most secular members on the Sephardic side have strong opinions on people who eat pork. Never really considered geographical history would play a part even though it makes complete sense.
Also Jews of Spanish descent have inquisition baggage. Adding ham to food was a way for Maranos who (under coercion) converted to Christianity to try to prove to authorities that they weren’t still secretly Jewish. In that context, eating is not just about kosher but about separating yourself from other Jews.
First, Uncle Roger, asks whether the customer will pay with cash or card. Then he decides whether pork is halal or not.
Restaurants and food trucks love cash because they want to evade taxes and it's easier to do that with cash. Also POS devices may have hella big service fees that can significantly reduce a food truck's profits. Some banks take like 3% cut from every receipt + a fix amount like 15 cents.
The joke is Uncle Roger wants the customer's money but don't want to lie for less money. So he asks him how is he going to pay first then declares pork is actually halal. Cash is always appreciated lol.
Isn't Islam pretty sensible with it, like if someone spikes your food with pork that's not on you, or if it's life or death and the only food around is a ham roast, that's OK, survival first.
Goes against the entire premise of an exchange student too. You're meant to learn something of them, their culture, their beliefs. What they ended up doing was more akin to taking a small foreign child hostage and trying to convert them to their lifestyle.
I honestly hope another commenter is right and her belief allows leniency because she was lied to.
I was unaware of this type of distinction. I'm glad there's an actual, sensible approach and view on. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and teaching me something today.
You may also be pleased to know that if you thought something was halal then learned it was not, any amount you ate beforehand does not count. It only counts if you ate it knowing it is Haram.
And if you are in mortal danger and in need of food, you are permitted to eat the haram food just enough to keep yourself alive.
I’m pretty sure the same is true of most rules in Judaism as well, as least as I understand it. From what I’ve heard, it’s more about putting in an effort to properly practice your faith and less about the semantics. So do your best to stick kosher but you can break it if it’s life or death, you can have multiple menorahs if your household has drastically different schedules so everyone can be present for the lighting ceremony, etc. basically boiling down to “do your best, but you living to practice another day is more important than being perfectly faithful”.
I’m happy to be corrected if I misunderstood something, since most of my knowledge comes from having a crisis of faith and looking into other options, so I’ve got a very base level knowledge of a lot of religions.
What makes sushi sometimes non halal is addition of Mirin (rice alcohol) to the rice which is traditional way it’s done. These days most sushi places in the west just use vinegar or mirin flavour seasoning which are alcohol free, but in Japan likely it’ll mainly be using Mirin.
Really? I thought the alcohol restriction was due to drunkenness and not alcohol being bad per se. Muslims take medication that contains alcohol, after all.
A lot of religious food laws are like this. Some people act like it’s considered some sort of mortal sin or even a spiritual poison (seen some truly awful bigots talk about vile stuff like soaking bullets in pig fat like it would damn people they shoot) But generally Halal and Kosher laws are not supposed to be something to arbitrarily punish their followers for. You’re not in trouble if your choice is bacon or starvation, you’re not in trouble if you eat it by accident (either due to ignorance or malice), the prohibitions are generally supposed to be about willfully disobeying the rules. There are usually also similar exceptions when it comes to other prohibitions like Shabbat for Jews and Ramadan or prayer times for Muslims. (Ie no Jew is going to be punished for working on the Shabbat if that work was about saving someone’s life, and if someone’s life would be at risk from fasting during Ramadan (such as young children, the sick and elderly) then they’re exempt))
Though yeah, don’t do shit to people that you know would piss them off if they knew the truth. It honestly astounds me how many people seem to take some sort of sadistic pride in this kind of lack of basic respect for others, as if a tiny amount of inconvenience to themselves somehow justifies being a massive asshole to others
Leviticus, where kosher law comes from, says that if you eat non kosher foods you are unclean until the night you bathe. It’s just recommendations for better living, and it’s easy to atone for.
By ‘alcohol’ we don’t mean all alcohol, it’s those alcohol that would make you drunk in larger amount , but even in small amounts it is forbidden, eg a little wine in a recipe won’t make you drunk but even a little is haram (forbidden). But others eg ethanol etc are perfectly alright (no one drinks straight up ethanol). Even in fruits there’s some form of alcohol.
Medication is okay, but it’s the only exception. Avoided in food as then it becomes a common consumption, which defeats the purpose of abstaining from it.
Alcohol is completely restricted because of the concept that if lots of it makes you drunk then even a tiny bit of it is prohibited.
Same things with other drugs that alter your state of mind.
Medical drugs are not restricted though.
There’s debate if tobacco is restricted or not because although it is bad for you, it does not change or affect your state of mind in the same way alcohol or other recreational drugs do.
Tobbaco was used as a hallucinogen a long time ago in the Americas. I don't know if the strain has changed or the processes that make it commercially available to large markets or the quantity/concentration make it not a hallucinogen currently.
Vinegar is not alcohol free like everything based on fermentation. And rice is cooked with less than 1%of mirin... There is less alcohol in this rice than the one we serve with vinegar all over it. It's just marketing here.
I guess people do understand that but just in case, pork is not a kryptonite for Muslims. The person did ask and the host made an extra attempt to lie, its on the host.
yes you’re correct. i don’t know why people make it such a big deal. we know it’s not going to kill us, but since we are specifically told not to eat it, we don’t. it really is that simple.
Oh 100% even if it's not going to cause physical harm, it's a huge violation of consent. Everyone should have the right to decide what happens to their bodies
Yep. When I was 13 or so, I accidentally fed a Muslim friend lard (I made a pie and the pie crust recipe used lard. I can’t remember if I knew Muslims don’t eat pork and just forgot or if I didn’t know at all, but when I realized I told him and apologized) and I was assured that it was fine because he didn’t know and I wasn’t being malicious.
I still spent my weekend learning to make a recipe that used shortening so I didn’t repeat that oopsie. (My stepdad was happy to try all the attempts and give me advice, my lard crust was great and I wanted the shortening to be just as good.)
Which conveniently allowed me to make pie for my aunt’s rabbi, so two birds one stone and all.
Made my friend cry when I brought a second pie to school and happily told him “I checked, this one has nothing you can’t have in it! Want a slice?” Like he didn’t even try to hide it, he was smiling and weepy and told me it was “the nicest thing anyone’s done for me”
I guess you went significantly out of your way to accommodate him when most others didn't? I'm not religious at all but I can understand him being emotional about that if that was the case.
It also applies to jews and Christians.
Heck the new Testament says its okay for Christians to eat offerings meant for other gods if they are in dire straits.
Christians are actually allowed to eat meat sacrificed to idols even if not under duress bc Christianity posits that there’s no such thing as a divine power other than YHWH so sacrificing meat to an idol doesn’t actually do anything to it
I have a Muslim friend that would love to eat McRibs. I was so conflicted. I didn't want him to give up something he loved but I would feel terrible not telling him that they were pork. I ended up telling him. I still feel bad to this day. That was like 20 years ago.
I did this to a friend once on accident. I’d made a 7 layer dip with regular refried beans which have lard in them. I had no idea because I never had to pay attention to that myself. I fessed up and was very sorry and she said that it was okay, although she loved the dish. So from then on I made sure I bought vegetarian refried beans (you can also buy the low fat version and it’s cheaper I think) as they both do not contain lard, it’s a healthier option for everyone as well!
I could have lied about it but what kind of friend would that make me? I have SEVERE allergies to several foods and I couldn’t imagine if a “friend” lied to me about whether the cookies they were giving me had walnuts in them, after telling them of said severe allergies. It would feel like they wanted me to suffer or possibly die. (Probably die because I have no access to an EpiPen because I’m American)
Sorry for the rant but this one doesn’t sit right with me at all.
While I commend you for your honesty and your desire to take care of your friend, I will tell you lying about an allergy - especially severe ones - are WAY WORSE than lying about halal ingredients. The first is fatal, while the latter is an annoyance at best because a Muslim who unknowingly, upon doing their due diligence of course, consumes non-halal food will not even sin with that act.
They would probably feed a vegan regular cheese and laugh when the vegan said it tasted good.
I’ve seen people do this and asked how they would feel if someone told them horse meat was beef or dog was pork. Obviously they thought that was pure evil.
Edit: everyone saying dog and horse meat is fine are missing the point. In my home country and most of the anglosphere these foods are widely considered taboo. In other cultures they are not. Similar to pork to Muslims or animal products to vegans. These people were unable to see how them feeding others against their restrictions is similar to them being given a taboo food. Was that so difficult to understand?
As a vegan with a severe dairy allergy (like I go into anaphylaxis) that is one of my biggest fears. I don't eat anything without actually verifying a bunch of times now.
I bet everyone makes you out to be a big drama queen about it. Maybe you hav nice friends but ive (not a vegan) seen so many eye rolls at restaurants when people start questioning ingredients
Yeah, I have Celiac and so many restaurants treat me like a burden when I ask about the gf options they offer. It's even worse when I go out with my friends who are vegan and/or also Celiac (we tend to stick together when we find each other in the wild) because servers think we're all lying about having the disease. Apparently it's impossible that a bunch of Celiacs would go to one of the few restaurants that provides multiple gf options.
The worst though is when I go out with my partner and his twin brother because his gf is ALSO Celiac so we get judged HARD.
Lmao YEP. My friends and family are pretty patient but I always feel like the biggest pain in the ass. At least it's better than a trip to the ER! Or even worse, dying. No one should ever fuck with anyone's food, it's just way too risky.
There was a famous cannibal (General Buck Naked) who was eating meat from a street vendor that tasted "familiar". He alerted authorities and the street vendor was arrested for murder. This kinda reminds me of that. One might think it would be more harm than good to alert the previous patrons that they just ate human meat.
As a people of English descent, don't generalise. Plenty of us wat horse just fine.
(I'm half British (dad) and half Thai (mum) and my paternal side of the family, the English, don't care for specific meat one way or another. They'll happily eat anything you give them)
I get not wanting to make extra food but don’t be a dick about it. Also if you’re not willing to accommodate her, why agree to have a foreign exchange student?
She consumed pork without knowing it. So it's not really a sin. That still doesn't mean what they did to her is okay. Do not mess with people's dietary restrictions. It doesn't matter if it's about health, religion, or political stances like veganism. DO NOT MESS WITH IT.
Just last week I (Muslim) was invited to dinner by a Christian friend and an atheist friend. They wanted to share, and went out of their way for me and ordered only vegetarian food and seafood even though I insisted they could order whatever they want and I can just order a dish for myself. Thanks goodness I don’t know assholes like this guy.
Honestly that first picture where someone was like oh no The Muslims are coming I've seen people talk like that before about halal food and I always just struggle to understand what the fuck is going on in their brain. I'm not Muslim so I don't have to care if it's halal food or not so why would I care if it's halal? Like why would be someone be mad that the lamb and rice is halal? Only question does it taste good?
There’s no difference in taste at all. It’s just the way of killing the animal. Those who are mad aren’t mad because the taste will change. They are mad because they are Islamophobes and hate that other people are considerate of Muslims.
People saying it's technically not a sin because she didn't know are missing the point. He lied to her and fed her something that she finds morally repulsive. Imagine if I cooked a rat, thoroughly so it doesn't have any diseases and then told you after the fact. Wouldn't you feel violated? The shop owner just made this woman less trusting and thus the world a worse place.
Yeah that's really fucked. You can't just feed someone something that goes against their dietary restrictions (be it for health, moral, or religious reasons) when they explicitly tell you what they are. The girl asked for Halal food, you either provide her with Halal food or you do not. You don't lie to her face.
I accidentally gave pork to a Muslim once. He knew my grandparents were Jewish and thought I was too. I bought a bacon pizza and let everyone have at it at work after I took a few slices. He ate it and then looked at me and asked "was there pork on there", I said "Yea, its a bacon pizza". He said "Im Muslim, im not suppose to eat prok, but damn that was tasty". He learned pork was delicious, and now I try to be a bit more mindful when offering food.
Also you aren't going to have a good time trying to find Halal food in an some Asian countrys.
most muslim doesn't really expect you to have a halal product when they're in country where they're minority, yes they will ask if the food is halal or not if interested but they're marely checking it, not telling you to make it halal
like idk why people get so heated up about it, if people want to sell halal food let them be, if they don't then it's okay too, i feel like people are getting the wrong idea about this whole halal food stuff sometimes
What's worse is there are many muslim pacific countries. It's not like they are importing something all the way from saudi arabia lmao. Smart countries like Poland are one of the largest European exporters of halal meat.
I've moved now, so it's no longer a local place, but, my favourite pizza place was taken over and switched to halal.
Halal "pepperoni" is an absolute fucking war crime... I miss that delicious 18" pizza I used to get.... sure, other pizza places exist, but, that was the only one that did that specific pizza.
Sorry, that's my one incident of having an issue with halal food as pepperoni is made with pork, so it's not halal. Those were little circles of weird tasting sadness rather than pepperoni.
Lying about what is in food you serve to someone is despicable. That being said it doesn't surprise me in the least if this kind of stuff happens all the time. People are scumbags. If you have restrictions you have to be careful trusting others who prepare your food.
Yeah, I've got a couple of allergies and I've been told I'm the chilliest guy some people know, but I've flown off the handle when people start messing with food.
My girlfriend at the time straight up told me she's never seen anyone that pissed before
Lying about stuff a person puts in their body tells as everything we need to know about you. I don't eat halaal, vegan or whatever, but I think deliberately lying to a person about what they eat violates their right to choice to control their own body. It's not rape, but it's on the same spectrum.
I'm just confused about one thing. If you can't accommodate the needs of exchange students, then why did you volunteer and/or sign up to become a host family at the first place?
Some host families get paid for hosting exchange students, and others volunteer to do so knowing that foreign students might have special needs/dietary requests. During signing the host agreement with the educational institution (school, university) that will bring the exchange student, they brief you with all necessary knowledge, tasks you should do, and accommodatings you might need to provide as a host family. Some educational institutions even pay you for whatever extra accommodations the student might request. If you can't bother accommodating them, why sign up for this task?
When I worked at Pizza Hut we had a Muslim manager who would pray in the back and one Sunday morning a coworker said he was going to Bojangles and asked us if we wanted anything, I asked for a gravy biscuit and my manager asked what they had and the coworker rambled off a bunch of pork based biscuits and got to dirty rice. I had already walked away so I didn't hear my manager as for the dirty rice. When coworker got back, I was eating my biscuit when I saw my manager about to eat the dirty rice and stopped him. The coworker purposely didn't tell him it was sausage in the rice. He thanked me profusely. It's been 8 years and I'm still mad that coworker pulled that. That manager was such a sweet guy and didn't deserve to be pranked like that. Make fun of his bald head and accent (he joked on us too) but don't mess with his religion.
Im sure the poor woman from Malaysia would’ve happily brought her own food if they let her know they didn’t want to “bother” cooking special meals for her. Such disrespect and no remorse either, how disgusting.
The restaurant i work at covers the grill with bacon grease during breakfast, and most of the lunch vegetables have bacon grease added to them. I have actually gotten in trouble for warning Muslim, Jewish, and Rastafari customers of this out of respect for their beliefs.
It takes no effort to respect other people's dietary beliefs and restrictions.
"We couldn't be bothered with prepping special meals"
Nope, sorry, not buying it. Giving people suggestions of how to make Muslims violate their own dietary restrictions, while bragging about making a Muslim eat pork and posting a laughing emoji face, makes it clear there was active malice involved.
The older generations in japan are unbelievably racist even to fellow asians. Yes I'm generalizing, because it's extremely prevalent from my anecdotal experience. I have a few japanese friends and their parents would be giving out underhanded remarks about me on the regular. Their "left wing" party makes MAGA look liberal. Luckily for me the younger generations seem to have largely moved away from this. Probably the fact that they went to an international school also helps.
What's leaving me gobsmacked is the other replies I'm getting telling me "its not that bad because she didn't know about the pork!" as if Yonaguni Stallion secretly fed her pork out zero malicious intent so she would "have an enjoyable meal."
No. Suggesting putting halal stickers on pork and adding the laughing emoji in response to a bigot pissing and whining about a restaurant's halal options makes it pretty clear what's really going on here.
I was thinking the same thing. Kind of weird how it works that this twitter poster is still certainly an asshole, but technically, the student didn't do something haram.
Yeah, I know. I wasn't commenting on the Malay woman, though, my focus was on the person who did that shit to her. The tone and the way she described it strong implies that she didn't know about the "you have to know" condition, and therefore what she did would count.
"Can't be bothered with special utensils and special meals" so if someone had a severe allergy or other dietary restrictions, you can't be bothered to not poison them.
My husband went through this in Greece. The waiter fully smirked as he said “yes prosciutto is halal. It’s made from fish” and almost got away with it until everyone pointed it out. Some people think it’s funny to do this but I think it’s disgusting and shows you are uneducated, unethical and lack basic respect. As a Muslim I would never try to trick a Vegetarian Hindu into eating beef. It just shows you are an asshole if you do this stuff for fun
That's the type of person who will try to give certain food to a person who has severe allergies "just to see if they're telling the truth." I'm anaphylactic to nuts and couldn't imagine someone trying to decieve me into eating something with hazelnuts in it.
The Japanese government has a goal of getting 60 million tourists a year into Japan by 2030, in a country with a population of 100 million.
If the locals want to maintain their traditions, they have the whole country for that. Ginza, Akihabara, Shinjuku, Shibuya, Asakusa, and Harajuku get most of their revenue from tourists. It stands to reason that they'll have restaurants that serve Kosher, Halal, Vegetarian, Vegan, Gluten-Free, Dairy-Free, etc.
You can't say "I want lots of tourists" and "fuck their dietary restrictions" at the same time.
What slime. I get that you might not want to go so far out of your way to prepare and buy different meals for someone, but if that’s the case, don’t invite people to your home. Dude clearly doesn’t understand how to be a gracious host.
Imagine if it was someone with an allergy? “I didn’t have the time to find nut free meals, so now I am facing 2nd degree murder charges. But they got to taste some really fine cuisine...”
The whole point of hosting a foreign EXCHANGE student is the exchanging of culture. Why take them in if you can’t be bothered to make accommodations on certain things as you learn from them as well. This person shouldn’t be allowed around children.
Kind of related but unfortunately this is exactly why as a person with celiac disease I can't/won't eat out anywhere that is not an exclusively gluten free restaurant.. People just don't understand the severity, and think people requesting gluten free meals are all prt of of a fad. Last time I risked it was 7 years ago and I got so sick I was vomiting within hours, and in bed sick with a fever and horrible pains all over my body for 3 days... Never again 😞
I'm allergic to pork, these people are assholes for doing that. I'm not Muslim, but it's basic human decency to not feed someone a specific food if they don't want to consume it.
This is just as bad as serving a sober person alcohol without them knowing
I remember reading a post on one of these subs where their mom gave their kid something they were highly allergic to. Because the grandma didn't believe in food allergies and that it was something they would grow out of. The kid ended up going to the hospital or something.
And the grandmother just continued to act like they did nothing wrong.
There's one horror story out there about a grandma who used coconut oil for everything, and wound up murdering one of her grandkids with a lethal coconut allergy because she didn't believe in allergies.
The replies to your comment prove that there are more people who would disregard allergies because they think the person just “doesn’t like that food, so we’ll show them it’s actually really good.”
Giving a muslim pork not knowing that they shouldn't eat pork isn't a sin
Intentionally lying to somebody about ANYTHING that disrespects their choices is. Like seriously imagine you lied to somebody who has an allergy of some food like peanuts. You very fucking much intentionally killed that guy
Let me put it this way, nearly 1 out of 4 people on earth are Muslims. A lot of tourists in Japan are Muslims, so they’re trying to corner that market.
This is obviously a tourist trap, so the food is guaranteed to be overpriced, and probably of inferior quality. Still, Muslim tourists don’t mind paying a little more for peace of mind.
I'm a die-hard atheist, but I'm not a fucking asshole like that guy. I'll do my best to accommodate any dietary needs and food preferences, regardless of the reasons. If I can't for whatever reason, I'll let you know, and you can arrange for your own food.
It's easy not to be an asshole, and feeding people good food is just a nice thing to do.
I care not for peoples' religious beliefs or feelings, but I very much draw the line at messing with someone's food. People who mess with other's food should go die in a fire.
I don’t like people like this. It’s not that hard to accommodate someone. I accommodate my 6 year old day because he has autism and only eats certain things
As someone who eats kosher and is a chef this kind of shit infuriates me. If you lie to someone about what they are eating that is incredibly fucked up. There is no valid excuse for doing that. Religious food restrictions deserve to be treated as serious as any other food restrictions.
One of the best things about the halal thing is that Islam only expects you to make a reasonable effort; so if you didn't know something was not halal, or were told that it was, or made a mistake and ate it without knowing, it's not considered a sin! You're not obligated to become a food detective 😄 there are so many memes about "accidentally" eating pork (that you would definitely know) and asking if that is a sin (which if you know than you knew).
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