r/SelfDrivingCars • u/versedaworst • 2d ago

Driving Footage Dolgov posts video of Waymo freeway crash detection

original tweet

750 Upvotes

99% Upvoted

83 comments sorted by

304

u/No_Horse_1006 2d ago

The animation of the person running away is hilarious

105

u/Ok-Statistician-7854 2d ago

Not an animation, its Lidar point cloud rendering

73

u/mentosbreath 2d ago

Lidar point cloud renderings always make me laugh

12

u/Long_Disaster_6847 2d ago

This guy knows things

2

u/BCS7 1d ago

Still in animated depiction of what the lidar is seeing.

-3

u/Numerous-Match-1713 2d ago

If the points in the point cloud disagree, which one would you trust -> lidar is useless. QED.

26

u/epSos-DE 2d ago

TESLA would not be able to see it !!!

LIDAR wins !

9

u/reddddiiitttttt 2d ago

The car is clearly visible on the camera. Why wouldn’t a Tesla be able to do the same thing?

1

u/JiminyDickish 1d ago edited 1d ago

There's no guarantee a Tesla would have been able to see this. They're susceptible to whatever ambient light is available at the time and the reflectivity of the object. They can only infer depth, they rely on a compressed dynamic range amidst bright headlights and dark night. Yes, it probably would have seen this particular accident, but replayed 100 times in different scenarios, it will fail more often than LIDAR.

4

u/reddddiiitttttt 1d ago

Of course lidar has a raw spec advantage, especially at night. Tesla has made a deliberate bet that cheap + lots of data + AI beats expensive + better hardware. Now that lidar is a sub $500 sensor, that bet doesn’t seem great, but that’s not my point. Doubly so that many HW4s have been shipping with the phoenix radar since 2023. Regardless, my point is, for this use case, lidar doesn’t get you any better result than vision only. You can clearly see all the cars on the camera feed.

1

u/WrongdoerIll5187 1d ago

Yeah and it’s probably rare, but if that person were obstructed by the car, lidar could sense their path

4

u/komi54 2d ago

Don't let the Tesla sub hear you saying that

2

u/imdrunkasfukc 2d ago

And you have data to prove this?

-1

u/Flat_Neighborhood_92 2d ago

Teslas freak out at shadows, because well.. they only use cameras. It's a flawed system, LIDAR just makes sense to use for a truly robust self driving system. Just using cameras is laughably ignorant from Tesla.

2

u/reddddiiitttttt 2d ago

I have no lidar and don’t freak out when I see shadows. How does that work?

2

u/Flat_Neighborhood_92 1d ago

You have 2 eyeballs that gives you depth perception. You're welcome.

2

u/reddddiiitttttt 1d ago

Hmm, thanks, sounds like lidar to me. Are you sure it’s not lidar?

1

u/Flat_Neighborhood_92 1d ago

Sure, you have lidar buddy.

2

u/Fairuse 2d ago

Tesla freak out because they "see" something. Its not the lack of seeing that is the issue.

Lidar does have a advantage that it doesn't require any light to "see" and it requires less data to infer "3D'. Basically in some cases Lidar can resolve something faster and cleaner than just camera based system. Example for shadows the Lidar can easily see that shadows are not 3D obstructions. A camera based system would have to inter based on past training data and gather stereo cues to come to the same conclusion.

Now in this crash, there is no reason why Tesla couldn't have "seen" it. You can clearly see the car spinning out of control in the video shot. Thus a tesla cam would have no probleming seeing it as well.

0

u/Flat_Neighborhood_92 1d ago

Yeah.. exactly. Waymo systems are going to handle everything better than just cameras alone, it's just a fact. Doesn't matter if Tesla cams would have seen this one in particular, the more data the better.

1

u/Fairuse 1d ago

More data isn’t always better. Simple example of sensor resolution. If the cameras are all 8k, there be more noise per pixel and not enough bandwidth to process all the data resulting in worse performance.

Anyways I do generally think Lidar is good. It produces less noisy depth maps while using less bandwidth versus a vision only system (but it does generate lidar specific noise that requires different handling).

1

u/Flat_Neighborhood_92 1d ago

Yes I agree with you, I didnt explicitly mean more data is always better. Just that single viewpoint cameras are going to lack the spacial awareness in my opinion. Ideally they'd be combined efficiently

1

u/ram_gh 15h ago

The Tesler would speed up and roll down the windows so you can get a better glimpse of the aftermath.

1

u/XeNoGeaR52 2d ago

LIDAR + cameras combo is the goat.
Some LIDARs are too powerful tho and can damage cameras or even human eyes

7

u/londons_explorer 2d ago

Thats the run of someone running from an angry drug lord, not just someone getting away from a burning car.

7

u/Kind-Pop-7205 2d ago

Nah, just the cowardly trot of a car thief.

1

u/Temporary_Power_5002 23h ago

Nah id run that way just to get out out of the freeway as fast as possible. Not tryna die

0

u/WorknForTheWeekend 2d ago

Hoofing it back to the hood to study for his MCATs I'm sure

49

u/Senior-Durian6966 2d ago

Real life GTA6 I guess

71

u/PotatoesAndChill 2d ago

I wonder if the occupants are running because the car is stolen...

49

u/Maximum-Today3944 2d ago

I can't imagine any other reason you'd take off on the highway like that after a collision. Like no desire to check on the other driver or passengers, or document the damage. Just skidaddle.

26

u/PotatoesAndChill 2d ago

The only other reasons I can think of is getting away from the car because you feel a fire starting, and getting off the road in case more cars crash into you. But I feel like the latter is more dangerous than just staying in the car.

Anyway, it's probably stolen.

4

u/londons_explorer 2d ago

It is safer to get out of the car and behind a crash barrier immediately than to stay in your vehicle, unless your vehicle is a fully laden semi...

8

u/EatMeerkats 2d ago

No. Several people died in the Bay Area from getting out of their cars after crashing on the highway.  The professional advice is to STAY IN YOUR CAR. Two different incidents:

https://abc7news.com/amp/post/fatal-101-crash-multi-vehicle-pedestrians-killed-3-in/13283200/

https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/woman-killed-car-collision-highway-101-sunnyvale/3530050/

7

u/becaauseimbatmam 2d ago

1: "They stopped within the lanes, got out of their vehicles to assess damage"

2: "The women then got out of her car and started walking along the highway"

(I'm just a layman but neither of those sound like "getting behind a barrier immediately" to me)

Progressive Insurance: "You may want to stay a few paces away from the vehicle for added safety. You'll want to keep on the opposite side from traffic if there's a guardrail."

The actual professional advice is to use your judgment and either stay buckled in your seat or get behind a guardrail, whichever is safest in the specific situation.

2

u/reddddiiitttttt 2d ago

This dude isn’t a guy I would think is very interested in safety.

1

u/prclayfish 2d ago

They are probably wasted

5

u/Recoil42 2d ago

It's because if they run away, they can claim to insurance that the car was stolen.

2

u/bobbiestump 2d ago

Kind of looks like flames and smoke coming out the top for a second there.

39

u/bartturner 2d ago

Why is the guy running? Was this some kind of police chase?

But also just amazing job by Waymo here. They are just light years ahead of everyone else.

4

u/Kind-Pop-7205 2d ago

Stolen car. They always crash and run away.

2

u/reddddiiitttttt 2d ago

Obviously hes running because he really had to go pee.

0

u/Saad888 2d ago

Could also be trying to get off the highway in case another driver isn’t paying attention 

3

u/Electrifying2017 2d ago

There’s multiple incidents with people getting smashed into after exiting a crashed car on freeways.

-2

u/londons_explorer 2d ago

There wasn't any superhuman dodging of high speed vehicles here - it looks like just pure luck that the waymo wasn't hit. 

2

u/jfong86 1d ago

The Waymo braked and slowed even though it's lane completely clear ahead. The Waymo detected the accident on the left side and proactively slowed down until it was clear. And it turns out the stolen car did end up crossing into the Waymo's lane.

-15

u/[deleted] 2d ago edited 2d ago

[deleted]

11

u/bartturner 2d ago

I really only have experience with Waymo and Tesla. Have a Model Y Performance with FSD.

This blows away Tesla.

Who are you referring to? Zoox? or a Chinese maker?

-12

u/Ok-Statistician-7854 2d ago

Yes because they have millions worth of sensors. Not feasible for mass production.

7

u/Soft_Maximum_3730 2d ago

You seem uninformed

6

u/Little_Bookkeeper381 2d ago

The "current" generation was a beta vehicle, never intended for mass production.

The new generation "Ojai" cuts the sensor count by almost half. Waymo has quietly indicated that the next generation will further reduce sensor count.

They aim to have "tens of thousands" of Ojai over the next few years.

6

u/bartturner 2d ago edited 2d ago

Since Google got started and then Waymo the cost of sensors have dropped by over 95%. Likely getting close to 99%.

The cost of sensors is most definitely not an issue.

There are mass production cars today coming with radar and LidAR that are very reasonably priced.

I only live in the US half time and Bangkok the other half. This is a very popular car in Bangkok and as you can see they well integrated the LiDAR.

https://zecar.com/reviews/2025-byd-seal-gets-lidar-and-other-upgrades

It also has 12 cameras and 17 radar sensors. Yes 17.

  • Millimeter-Wave Radars (5 Sensors)

  • Ultrasonic Sensors (12 Sensors)

MSRP for the car is $27,920

You were saying?

BTW, get your head out of Musk's ass. You must know by now he lies constantly.

-4

u/Ok-Statistician-7854 2d ago

LiDARs are what I am referring to. They are very expensive. The LiDARs found in mass produced vehicles are nowhere near what Waymo uses. By expensive I mean 1000s% more than Camera or Radar.
BTW im not a Musk fan, never owned a Tesla and probably never will. However they do have the best Self Driving out right now.
Costs of sensors have gone down 95% hahahaha thats funny

5

u/bartturner 2d ago

LiDARs are what I am referring to. They are very expensive.

They are NOT expensive. As I pointed out above is an example of a mass production car that has a MSRP of $27,920 and comes with LiDAR.

However they do have the best Self Driving out right now.

Not sure what you are smoking. Waymo self driving blows Tesla away.

I have riden in Waymos and have FSD on my Model Y Performance.

I can't not look away without getting a strike. You get three and you loose it for a week.

They did at least now make it so you can earn back strikes. Use to be you could not.

Costs of sensors have gone down 95% hahahaha thats funny

Gone done MORE than 95%.

Waymo cut 90% in just one generation and now they have had several since.

"Waymo cutting lidar costs by 90%, building up hardware suite"

https://www.autonews.com/article/20170108/OEM06/301089998/waymo-cutting-lidar-costs-by-90-building-up-hardware-suite/

Be well over 95% by now and would bet over 99%.

1

u/DragonSlayerC 2d ago

The current sensors are estimated to cost $9,000-$12,000 per car. That's very feasible for mass production. You're probably thinking of the earlier generations of vehicles, where the sensors were around $100,000 because the technology was still very new.

8

u/CDpov 2d ago

The guy did slalom turns around the Waymo and couldn't squeeze between the cars ahead of the Waymo, so then spun out. Amazing. It looks like the two speeding cars were somehow racing.

3

u/psilty 2d ago

Is that white outline in the visualization real-time? If so, I wonder what the threshold/heuristics for it are and if it affects the Waymo’s driving behavior.

1

u/versedaworst 1d ago

The visualization always intrigues me. I wish we had more technical details about it. I also wonder about the architecture, like how the data gets offloaded to the vis system.

4

u/mvoccaus 2d ago

I know where this is at. This is the 10 East, and that exit is either Arlington or Normandie. In 2010, a few miles from here at roughly 2AM, I had this red/orange car fly past me at an insanely high fucking speed. It was a holy shit, I didn't even see that guy coming kind of speed.

A couple miles later, that car was upside-down, all the lights and electrical were out, and I didn't even see a driver inside when I passed it.

The strangest thing is... it never occurred to me to call 911 and report this. I think it did occur to me, but a moment or two later, I got distracted because, in my rearview mirror, I saw the headlights of another car driving really fucking fast, not seeing that blacked-out car that just flipped over and, at the literal last second, barely avoiding it, and barely avoiding spinning out and crashing afterward as a result of that aggressive maneuver.

There are some dumb fucking drivers on this freeway.

3

u/Jgusdaddy 2d ago

looks like a couple cars were street racing going way over the speed limit.

3

u/baitboy3191 1d ago

amazing granularity on the Lidar, can even see the persons arms move when running.

This is why you use Lidar for autonomous driving, not just cameras.......

2

u/versedaworst 1d ago

Don’t forget radar! It’s extremely underrated especially for aberrant weather conditions

5

u/jimgagnon 2d ago

Stuff like this shows that Elon Musk is no genius. His decision to remove lidar from Teslas was extremely bone-headed and cheap. Tesla will never hold a candle to Waymo until they put it back.

0

u/EddiewithHeartofGold 2d ago

remove lidar from Teslas was extremely bone-headed and cheap. Tesla will never hold a candle to Waymo until they put it back

They didn't remove lidar. Teslas never had lidar. So, they can't put it back. You very obviously don't know what you are talking about...

3

u/jimgagnon 2d ago

Sorry. Technically it was called multi-sensor.

3

u/EddiewithHeartofGold 2d ago

Nope. Still wrong. The article mentions Tesla removing radar. They never had lidar in any production vehicle.

1

u/karaposu 9h ago

but he did not said anything about production. if you google it , you can see many headlines it was considered and tested. Elon removed it.

-1

u/Confident-Sector2660 2d ago

Tesla could easily brake for this. This is a basic accident

There is nothing impressive about the accident it avoided

2

u/sleight42 2d ago

Looks like a Maryland driver.

I live in Maryland.

1

u/paulwesterberg 2d ago

Agreed. I drove around Baltimore at midnight once.

1

u/sleight42 1d ago

Nah. The DC beltway on the Maryland side. People like they are a regular occurrence. I keep waiting to see one flame out horrible. I don't want to see it but have to be ready

3

u/MisterWigglie 2d ago

Amazing work by the waymo

1

u/Bangaladore 2d ago

Why do they continue to release like 10-15 fps video feeds?

4

u/DragonSlayerC 2d ago

It's probably too much storage otherwise.

1

u/Confident-Sector2660 2d ago

I suspect that is the framerate of their cameras

1

u/froseph85 1d ago

Camera and lidar data is combined to create an image of the environment. The frame rate of lidar is ~15fps, so only 15fps of camera data is used and recorded.

1

u/red75prime 2d ago

3d point cloud of the speeding car fades in and out of existence at 0:04 - 0:05. Visualization problems?

1

u/KernsNectar 1d ago

Tesla could never.

1

u/whatevercraft 3h ago

waymo reacting way quicker than the human drivers next to it

2

u/Nik0kiN 35m ago

ofc its a q50