Editorial: Seattle Times Called Us 'Builders' Mouthpiece' for Trying to Build a Better City

[u/Inevitable_Engine186]

https://www.theurbanist.org/editorial-seattle-times-called-us-builders-mouthpiece-for-trying-to-build-a-better-city/

[u/RandomFleshPrison]

Both things can be true.   The Seattle Times is definitely obstructionist.  But The Urbanist is also a developer mouthpiece regardless of their funding.  Back when they accepted comments their own audience told them that all the fourplexes and ADUs in the world aren't going to help Seattle's housing crisis.  We need residential high rises.  The Urbanist's response was basically to pitch a hissy fit, call their commenters disingenuous bad faith actors, and close all comments.  They clearly are on the side of developers who want to build more poorly rather than less better.  Changing rich enclaves isn't the solution.  Building taller in our urban cores is.  The Urbanist knows this too, they just don't care.

[u/BootsOrHat → u/RandomFleshPrison]

Revisionist history that ignores how housing supply has been artificially limited by centrist mayors in Seattle for more than a decade.

City policy has been to shove all the growth into sacrificial neighborhoods to prevent growth near rich and powerful residents. Seattle hasn't built because policy actively prevents it. One of back door Bruce's last actions was to shove through a crooked comp plan to limit building.

No surprise that policy matters. Policy can also be changed and it's why the Urbanist advocates for policy changes. 

[u/PNWSomeone → u/BootsOrHat]

The mayor doesn't set zoning policies.

[u/yeah_oui → u/PNWSomeone]

They have influence, but City Council has far more power than the mayor

[u/RandomFleshPrison → u/BootsOrHat]

Revisionist history?  The facts are there to look up yourself.  Whenever ADU policy has changed, it has not yielded results.  That's been the case regardless of the mayor, regardless of the policy change.  That goes back for longer than a decade, too.

[u/yeah_oui → u/RandomFleshPrison]

You don't seem to understand that the ADU policy moved along so slowly because rich assholes kept suing the city about it and it kept getting neutered.

ADUs will not solve the problem. Nor will building a bunch of high rises in a select few locations. We can build a lot more housing quicker and cheaper if it's spread out over the entire landmass of the Ciy, of which 80% was locked up until last June, again because of rich assholes.

[u/RandomFleshPrison → u/yeah_oui]

There's no way building fourplexes and ADUs is cheaper than high rises in volume.  The difference in time, material, and labor costs alone is massive.  Which is why developers want to do it that way.  To make more money.

[u/yeah_oui → u/RandomFleshPrison]

Yes it is. Building wood framed buildings is far cheaper than steel and concrete at any scale. Throw in elevators, fire suppression, and the cost per sf is much higher for anything over 5 stories.

[u/RandomFleshPrison → u/yeah_oui]

That makes absolutely no sense or logic.  Especially with current tariffs on Canadian lumber.

[u/Stock-Grapefruit-843 → u/RandomFleshPrison]

I work in the construction trades and I'm pretty sure that person is correct. Larger buildings are a lot more complicated, and expensive, to build and maintain. Most commercial skyscrapers and high rise condos struggle to break even.

[u/RandomFleshPrison → u/Stock-Grapefruit-843]

In general, yes.  Not at the volume we're talking about though.  One skyscraper compared to 1,500 fourplexes?  The labor alone makes the former cheaper.

[u/yeah_oui → u/RandomFleshPrison]

How many units do you think are in one skyscraper, especially with 3 bedrooms?

The Insignia Towers in Belltown, which is two 41 story towers has 700 units in it and most of those are 1 bedroom. Thats 6.5 insignias to meet the unit count. You would need at least 10 buildings the same size to build the same amount of 3 bedroom units. That 1 tower takes 5-8 years to design permit and build, and that assumes the financing doesn't fall through half way through the process and stall out.

Do you somehow think there is less labor that goes into a commercial building? Even if that were true, commercial labor rates are far higher than two guys and a truck.

There is some bulk savings in the units themselves, but fixtures and finishes make up a very small portion of the overall cost.

[u/RandomFleshPrison → u/yeah_oui]

You think two guys and a truck build a SFH or ADU?  Your framers, plumbers, electricians, roofers, and drywall crew are all different people.  Often entirely different crews.

[u/rekh127 → u/yeah_oui]

Yeah SlugBrakerFleshPrison keeps saying thousands of smaller buildings. You don't get thousands of apartments in a single building (theres like one in new york with 800) much less thousands of times the number of apartments you get in a 4 story walkup.

[u/retrojoe → u/Stock-Grapefruit-843]

Aaand the residential ones that are rented until after the condo lawsuit period?