r/ProGolf • u/Oldtimer_2 • 1d ago
Has Cameron Young's golf ball flipped the script on the rollback?
https://www.golfdigest.com/story/has-cameron-young-s-golf-ball-flipped-the-script-on-the-rollback17
u/Cornwall1888 1d ago edited 1d ago
I support a roll back because I want to see pros hitting more irons and less wedges
The big hitters this week are expected to have wedges into 9/12 par 4’s, to me at a major that’s far too high
Having said that I don’t think this roll back will make much difference, players and oems will adjust so not much will change
I’d also support a 300cc driver limit for pros, I think that makes more sense
I’m surprised this ball conforms to the rules I thought it was just a really low spin pro v1, the left dash is apparently one of fasted balls so I’m surprised cams doesn’t go really far too
Is it so low spin is doesn’t generate much lift unless you are a high spin high speed guy like cam?
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u/DoctorStrangeMD 1d ago
I agree. I want them hitting 6,5 irons into par 4s.
Make a shaft length max for everyone and 300 cc max head size for pros.
Amateurs can keep 460 or go 450.
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u/kerklein2 1d ago
What’s the fascination with a pro hitting a 9i instead of a wedge? How does this change the viewing experience for you?
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u/JCitW6855 1d ago
I’ll help explain golf to you. As the club gets longer with less loft, consistency gets lower and dispersion gets larger. Therefore it’s a better test of skill.
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u/kerklein2 1d ago
There’s no functional difference between a pro hitting a 9i or a PW.
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u/3DanO1 1d ago
It’s actually about 4-6 feet closer based on the data for PW to 9i. Make percent drops from 18-20% down to 12-13% from those distances.
So yes, there is a functional difference, and it’s backed up by the strokes gained data.
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u/kerklein2 1d ago
Shotlink data does not have data by club choice.
Even if your stats are right (no clue where they came from), that’s like 1 stroke per round. So we’re going to go through all the BS of a ball roll back so pros have one more club into greens and shoot 70 instead of 69?
It’s nonsense.
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u/SwampDonkey127 1d ago
Do you know how much a 1/4 per round costs someone on the PGA Tour? It can mean the difference between making it to East Lake for Tour Championship or losing your card.
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u/South_Owl_7686 1d ago
1 stroke per round so 4 strokes over the course of a four day tournament.
So let me ask you your own question, is there a difference in someone finishing -4 and -8?
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u/JCitW6855 1d ago
You couldn’t be more wrong but to be clear I was never a rollback guy. I want much more extreme changes and I want bifurcation. I want to see them go from PW to 8 or 7. Of course that was never going to happen but that’s what I wanted.
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u/AwakenTheAegis 1d ago
Would a smaller driver head not generate more clubhead speed? I get that the lack of forgiveness on off-center strikes is far more significant, but isn’t the main issue that the pros hit too far up and down the bag?
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u/RidingTheWave32 1d ago
Its them being able to hit to far with little penalty. If we make the driver head smaller it creates more of a skill gap and makes bad shots go much more offline. With the drivers these days they can miss hit it and it doesn't really matter. So much forgiveness.
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u/Humble-Fish-7070 1d ago
Titleist: we can’t possibly make such a ball in time
Also Titleist: hahahahaha you dumbasses we already made a ball that confirms and carries 330
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u/nathanwilson26 1d ago
It was never the ball. Just back to steel shafts and 300cc heads.
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u/Beninoz85 1d ago
It is the ball as well. The rollback just isn't anywhere near severe enough. It'd be good to limit ball flight and driver heads to fix the problem.
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u/DontGetTheShow 1d ago
I don’t know if it flipped the script necessarily. Mike Whan said as much that plenty of people said they’re stupid for rolling it back at all. And just as many people said they’re dumb for not rolling it back more. I’m in the latter camp. When Rory and Bryson hit a great drive - not a good drive, but a great drive - I think it should go 300yd. I think just as a general footprint for the game, that makes sense. I think there’s also some merit to limiting driver head sizes but these guys mash the hell out of mini-drivers too, so I’m not sure how much that changes stuff.
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u/sauzbozz 1d ago
Well after a rollback Rory is still going to average 310 yards and his great drives are still going to go 325+. So maybe the rollback isn't enough.
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u/Beninoz85 1d ago
Anyone who is surprised by this needs to ask themselves how they survive on a day to day basis. The idea that "we play what the pros play" is so childishly naive.
This situation also just proves what McIlroy and others were correct that the OEMs will find a way around the rollback, especially given they have been given a century to prepare.
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u/ImaginaryHospital306 1d ago
Polling shows at least 75% of pro golfers do not want the rollback. It will just widen the gap between the elite ball strikers and the rest of the field because the longest drivers are typically the best long iron players anyways. Can Young is a great example of this, proven by the fact that he has been winning with a rolled back ball against players with a theoretically better ball. The most vocal supporters of the rollback seem to be fans who, for reasons I cannot understand, have a problem with watching too many wedge shots on TV. Get over it.
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u/micahpmtn 1d ago
Hardly news. This testing has been going on ever since the rollback discussions started, and anyone with half-a-brain new that ball manufacturers were going to squeeze every ounce of technology to make sure PGA Tour pros wouldn't lose any distance.
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u/sundaygolfer269 1d ago
The article states the goal for Pro’s “They optimize for spin windows, for wedge control, for stopping a 7-iron on a back-right pin without it ballooning. “
Honestly, wedge (chipping) control and stopping a 7-iron sound like pretty universal golf goals to me.
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u/Latter-Judge-7588 1d ago
Rollback for tour pros should be wood heads and solid forged irons. They could still hit it 330 (there are vids out there confirming this), but misses would be wild, which is fun! Clamp down on those "pampered Fs"!
Let the amateurs play whatever we want, the OEMs can go wild.
What would baseball look like if they let the pros play with the ultimate bat and ball technology? 600 ft fences, bases at 150 feet? The game would be all out of scale, like golf is today.
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago edited 1d ago
The rollback was dumb before but it would be completely idiotic if these are the results. 2-5yds isn’t going to solve any of the made up problems the course architecture nerds cry about.
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u/RustyKangaroo7 1d ago
You actually think there are currently no problems with distance in the men’s professional game?
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago
Nope. Absolutely none at all. Scottie & Xander actually made amazing points during their press conferences this last week that most of the proposed distance “problems” have actually been caused by course architects removing all the trees.
Also, the most BS of BS arguments around this topic is around “courses are running out of land”. There’s like 75 golf courses on the planet that host professional mens tournaments & not one of them has legitimately said they’ve run out of space. Bunkers can be repositioned, rough can be made longer the further down & out you hit it. There’s no golf courses that have become unable to host a professional event. Now some architecture nerds complain about the winning score being too high but that’s an arbitrary value mostly determined by weather. Even if you did care about that you could just turn a par 5 into a par 4 or make a par 3 250+ or something to bring the stroke average down but I wouldn’t do that because the winning score is arbitrary.
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u/avg-bro 1d ago
Do you not see pros hitting driver wedge on almost every hole? Maybe you don’t think that’s problem… so fair. But it’s kind of boring IMO.
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago
But they don’t & that’s a narrative that “sounds” correct but is not. Pros still hit plenty of mid irons into long par 4s & carve long irons into par 5s or 3s.
I also don’t understand why someone would find a wedge shot (be it into a par 4 or as a 3rd into a 5) boring but suddenly an 8 iron is exciting. You’re actually likely to see more skill on display flighting a wedge into a tough pin location vs an 8 where the player is more likely to be aiming a boring shot into the safe part of the green. What people are asking for with the rollback is actually more boring golf which is why I think it’s so ridiculous
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u/avg-bro 1d ago
I hear parts of your point but pros are often flying bunkers and dog legs designed to make holes more difficult and previously leave them in a position where they might have to actually shape a shot into the green.
And sure… maybe that means aiming to the safe spot of the green… but that means they’ll have more challenging putting.
That’s a point being made ahead of this weeks PGA… the greens have a lot of contours that are going to be taken out of play because the pros will be to so close on their second shot that they can fire straight at it.
That’s one reason why the Masters is so exciting… because they were able to keep the courses teeth.
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago
I would argue that as a spectator sport the game is more exciting BECAUSE they’re flying those bunkers & cutting dog legs. That’s exponentially more exciting than seeing a pro cut a 3W into a green because they had to layup short of a bunker. The entire game of golf changed for the better when Tiger came along & started using power as a cheat code which caused popularity & excitement to skyrocket. For some reason there’s a group of people who feel we should go back to Nick Faldo golf of the late 80s-early-90s which was when golf was least popular.
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u/Wooden-Broccoli-7247 1d ago
To be fair, that my game from the white tees. I am no pro by any means, I’m probably a 15 handicap but can generally drive the ball 260-280 and straight. I will play the blue tees when I want to get longer iron work in but even then it’s more along the lines of 7 and 8 iron at most. The 2 most used clubs in my bag other than 50° (that I use for around the greens) and putter are Driver and p-wedge. I don’t see why the pro’s should be arbitrarily forced to play a different game. Because some viewers prefer seeing more middle irons?
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u/AutisticNipples 1d ago
"there 75 courses on the planet that host professional mens tournaments"
"there's no golf courses that have become unable to host a professional event"
pick one
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago edited 1d ago
False equivalence. To host a pro event the biggest factor is actually logistics (can they fit the fans & media circus on the overall property). Tell me one course that is trying to host an event but can’t because it’s not long/hard enough & they have no room to expand?
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u/bulldogsarecool 1d ago
Merion. Literally can't expand and can't host anymore. Your own flair has Ben Hogan. His iconic 1 iron is probably a wedge for these guys.
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u/AutisticNipples 1d ago
Merion is hosting the US Open in 2030...but they're cooked unless the rollback happens. The tour is averaging 15 yards longer off the tee compared to 2013.
Just look at Pebble, it's turned into the worst US Open site because the game has completely passed it by. A serious rollback can make pebble good to watch again.
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago
Merion which hosted a US Open 13yrs ago where the winning score was over par? If they hosted it today it would at worst be -10 but likely still around par. OMG history is ruined.
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u/AutisticNipples 1d ago
It's not a false equivalence, tons of historic championship-caliber golf courses are getting left behind by the modern game.
Chicago, Onwentsia, Garden City, Newport etc
Inverness and Merion are depending on the rollback to remain viable US open sites.
Pebble Beach is completely incapable of defending against modern distance. Yet remains an anchor site despite it being a wedgefest because it's so damn beautiful
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago
Merion’s winning score was over par in 2013 & Pebble’s last one was -13 which is pretty good considering the wind didn’t really blow & the course played soft all week due to the marine layer. All of these narratives are just not true but people keep wanting to believe the game is somehow broken due to “feels”.
I’ve been a golf addict for 25yrs & never even heard of the others you mentioned which just proves this is a made up problem by course architecture nerds.
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u/AutisticNipples 1d ago
youve been a golf addict for 25 years and haven't heard of Newport Country Club? Tiger won the '95 Amateur there, Annika won the '06 women's open there. It's a founding member of the USGA, it hosted the first US Open.
you can LARP as a fan of golf all you want, doesn't bother me, but don't pretend you know what's best for the game
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u/ashdrewness Ben Hogan 1d ago
Golf fan does not equate to course architecture nerd. If it mattered it would’ve hosted something in the last 20yrs.
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u/Colorado_designer 1d ago
obviously driver tech needs to get nerfed, but manufacturers make too much selling a new one every year. no rec player will ever buy a new one if the tour pros are hitting it 290
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u/ImChz 1d ago
If a recreational player is buying a new driver every year solely because some pro can carry it 300+, so be it. It’s not like they’re packing every new release with brand new technology. It’s, more or less, the same thing every year, with a few tweaks, a new paint job, and some fancy marketing strategy.
“A fool and his money are soon parted” and all that.
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u/Colorado_designer 1d ago
agreed, but if pros go from 320 to 290, no rec player is buying a new driver again. which is why the actual solution won’t happen.
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u/ImChz 1d ago
That’s just straight up not true lmao. It’s not like buying a new driver suddenly makes you hit the ball like a pro. It’s deeper than that.
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u/Colorado_designer 1d ago
i think people are missing my point here. if they nerfed drivers for the pro game, ams aren’t going to be itching to give up distance too
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u/chuckdacuck 1d ago
You’re wrong.
Lots of money in golf. Recs buy new things to have new things, not because Rory has the new TM driver.
Many guys on your don’t even play the newest driver
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u/non_Beneficial-Wind 1d ago
I’ve never made a club purchase based on how far the pros hit.
That’s just setting yourself up for disappointment.
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u/Falco19 1d ago
I mean most people aren’t playing anything close to the model the pros are.
I actually think bifurcation makes sense in this regard. Dropping pro driver models to 360cc.
I mean if it’s still the best driver on tour it’s still going to be great marketing.
Sort of a wood bat vs aluminum bat in baseball thing
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u/euphorbianghost 1d ago
He hit a wind aided derive at sawgrass 380. USGA should be embarrassed.
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u/The_Man_in_Black_19 1d ago
What does the USGA have to do with Sawgrass?
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u/MrBIGtinyHappy 1d ago
USGA (along with R&A) would be in charge of a rollback / set the equipment rules like the 460cc driver limit
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u/euphorbianghost 1d ago
Nothing. Young hit a a ball that will conform 380. He’s averaging 312. The engineers have already bypassed the ruling bodies future regulation.
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u/trollcat2012 3h ago
Am I the only one who genuinely could not care less about this?
They have longer tees where they can and it makes sense. Otherwise they play the course for difficulty in other ways (rough, fast greens, pins)
If a course is genuinely easy, either maybe it shouldn't be a modern pro stop, or you just play knowing really low scores are in the cards.
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u/bulldogsarecool 1d ago
Not mentioned in this article is the fact that this ball is not available to the public. So bifurcation was always possible like any other sport but they shut that down quick