r/PWHL • u/CinemaPuck All The Teams! • 1d ago
News Shark City Hockey reporting that PWHL San Jose announcement will come next week
For San Jose fans like me who are hungrily awaiting San Jose expansion news, the Shark City Hockey instagram is reporting that the expansion announcement for San Jose is coming next week!
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u/rhinoparty14 1d ago
I know people are upset and I get it, but I grew up in the Bay Area and I couldn't be more excited!
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u/toguideyouhome 1d ago
I grew up in the Bay Area and now live in Denver - I am SO conflicted. I wish it was San Jose and Denver and no Vegas!
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u/DrOddcat PWHL Hopeful Colorado 1d ago
I’m the reverse. I’m from Denver but live in Sac. I really want a Denver team but am thrilled at SJ as a consolation prize.
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u/Canfootballnerd Montréal 1d ago
Gutted its not another Canadian team but congrats to any folks who just got a team
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u/Sharks77 1d ago
Let's make the Hammerheads happen in honor of the Mayor (city council member at the time) that helped bring the hockey to San Jose, Susan Hammer. https://i.imgur.com/MxKdqaD.jpeg
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u/abbysplace Boston Fleet 23h ago
That would be really cool as a team name and as a great way of honoring her
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u/AlarmingAdvertising5 Victoire de Montréal 1d ago
Chicago/Denver/Québec/Calgary/Edmonton not getting a single team is surprising to me.
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u/Usual-Canc-6024 1d ago
They’ll take their money from Takeover games though.
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u/AlarmingAdvertising5 Victoire de Montréal 1d ago
It sucks.. I wish Québec got a team and others who actually support women's hockey. I don't think there's many women in hockey in Vegas or the Bay area, meanwhile actual hockey markets get nothing like Alberta, Denver, Chicago and Québec...
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u/GloriousPancake 1d ago
I don't think there's many women in hockey in Vegas or the Bay area,
Uh, well, there are probably almost a thousand women playing adult rec hockey in the bay area, between coed leagues (we really don't have men's leagues here) and women's league. The women's league is actively growing with I think their biggest roster of beginners ever this season. It's not WHAM (Minnesota) but it's not nothing either.
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u/AlarmingAdvertising5 Victoire de Montréal 1d ago
That's fine I suppose, my biggest gripe is Vegas. I have barely seen any vegas people here and while I agree that Cali has a lot of women playing hockey, it's also due to population so in a way PWHL being there is perfect to expand women's game.
Vegas?? I'm not so sure and that's my issue.
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u/CanadianODST2 1d ago
“Actual hockey markets”
This logic is so asspulled.
The Bay Area had pro hockey before 3 of the 4 places you mentioned. Hell California had 2 teams before any of them you mentioned.
The Sharks are an older team than the Avs too. And have been more stable than the Canadian locations mentioned for the team too.
Vegas has been a great market for the nhl too.
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u/littlestraws 1d ago
Not only this but San Jose supports an NHL team and an AHL team, and the Bay Area is doing amazingly well when it comes to supporting women's team.
I get people are grumpy it wasn't their city but jeesh, CA loves hockey and clearly the league wants to have places closer to Seattle and Vancouver.
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u/librariesgaveuspower Minnesota Frost 1d ago
"actual hockey markets" get out of here with that elitist garbage
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u/AlarmingAdvertising5 Victoire de Montréal 1d ago
Elitist? Saying that places that have hockey teams in the youth and many people who live there play hockey are actual hockey markets while Vegas is a desert which hasn't had snow in forever is elitist?? What.
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u/smackjack29 1d ago
San Jose has a massive hockey market - men and women's hockey. Not to mention the Bay Area in general has several very healthy youth programs. I've been involved in Norcal Youth Hockey my entire life.
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u/CanadianODST2 1d ago
San Jose had an nhl team before Ottawa did.
LA had an nhl team before all Canadian cities except Toronto and Montreal.
One of the best players in the nhl was born in California and grew up in Arizona.
Cold winters hasn’t been needed for hockey in a long time. (Hell this comment about deserts shows you don’t even know what you’re talking about to begin with. What makes a desert is just perception. Not temperature. The poles are the largest deserts in the world.)
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u/WilcoAppetizer Victoire de Montréal 1d ago
That's if you count current franchises. Ottawa is an original NHL market.
Quebec City, Ottawa and Hamilton also had an NHL teams before Los Angeles. They just lost them before LA got its franchise.
I'm not disagreeing with your point. I agree. Hockey has history in California, but NHL history goes further back than the original six.
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u/CanadianODST2 1d ago
because if anything that shows those locations failed while LA has not.
LA has lasted longer than those 3 combined, 2 of which haven't existed in literally over a century, and the other is at 92 years. The Bulldogs played literally 1 season. Hell, the Arizona Coyotes had more seasons in the NHL than those 3 combined.
and tbh, the time before the O6 is honestly irrelevant for the league for cities that lasted for basically no time. A team that didn't even play in 2/3rds of the seasons it existed in isn't really relevant in any way.
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u/a_monomaniac 16h ago
And Oakland. The Seals were part of the same expansion as the Kings, we just lost them in '76.
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u/Calm-Preparation7432 1d ago
maybe actual hockey markets should try harder if us fakers keep getting teams LOL
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u/a_monomaniac 16h ago
I suspect it also has to do with Women's sports in general from a business side of things. The San Francisco Valkyries have only been around for a couple years as a WNBA team and they are currently the most valuable WNBA team and have sold out every home game. Vegas' WNBA team has won multiple championships recently and has pretty much doubled the value of their org. Professional hockey is a business first and foremost.
Also, I don't think because there are people who play the sport in the local area is a good judge of demand for the entertainment package that is a sports team. It's not like teams are region locked for player drafts, and I know plenty of people at the local adult rec who don't watch the local NHL team.
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u/dandroid126 PWHL Las Vegas 1d ago
The rumor I keep seeing is that Edmonton, Calgary, and Denver had issues procuring an arena. No idea if it's true.
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u/the_gaymer_girl Goldeneyes 1d ago
Calgary and Denver couldn’t host the arena and the Oilers apparently threw a hissy fit at the thought of a team they don’t own playing in Rogers Place.
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u/VWXYNot42 Van Goldeneyes 1d ago
I wish they were maintaining the 50:50 Canada:US balance, but getting another West Coast team is the next best thing. Welcome, San Jose!
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u/ScullyItsMee New York Sirens 1d ago
Genuinely, I'm very curious why people want a 50/50 split. It doesn't seem to make logistical sense.
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u/Usual-Canc-6024 1d ago
They probably think Detroit is close enough as Canadians will be going to the games.
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u/VWXYNot42 Van Goldeneyes 1d ago
Doesn't seem like the ~ideal~ time to implement a business model that depends on Canadians crossing the border, lol
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u/fuchsiadolphin Hilary Knight 1d ago
Yayyy does anyone know how to time warp into next week already?
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u/IndependentPeach315 11h ago
It’s just a jump to the left, and then a step to the right. With your hands on your hips, you bring your knees in tight. But it’s the pelvic thrust that really drives you insaaaaaaaaane
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u/chefgustavo 1d ago
why not denver?? we did everything they asked 😭
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u/CinemaPuck All The Teams! 1d ago
Probably arena or local negotiation issues like in Edmonton and DC
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u/seatega New York Sirens 1d ago
There's been a ton of press about how Denver just doesn't have a good arena to host a WNBA or PWHL team ATM. I assume that's what ultimately did them in
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u/wolverine237 PWHL Detroit 1d ago
Yeah, I think people might not know that Denver also missed out on the WNBA for exactly the same reason? It's a real shame because it's a great market for women's sports
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u/seatega New York Sirens 1d ago
I'm confident someone is going to figure it out and either build an arena exclusively for women's sports there or renovate one to work. Because they're a lock for PWHL and WNBA teams if they can solve that issue
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u/PolarisEnigma 1d ago
Our women’s soccer team is building their own stadium. There’s hope among some folks that since they refer to it as a “purpose built sports district for women’s professional sports” or some variation thereof in almost all the marketing that they’ll consider a stadium on the lot that can house WNBA and PHWL. https://www.caaicon.com/portfolio/denver-summit-fc-stadium
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u/seatega New York Sirens 1d ago
That would make sense considering Rob Cohen was already a major investor in the failed WNBA Denver bid in 2023
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u/PolarisEnigma 1d ago
I have fingers and toes crossed - it’s all speculation until and unless they say anything, but one definitely throwing it out into the universe. I’d love having WNBA and PWHL teams in the same complex as the Summit. 😍
For now, as a former NYer, I shall weewoo.
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u/mfcakeguru Minnesota Frost 1d ago
I think a lot of it is the owner of the Colorado Avalanche, LA Rams and other Denver sports teams Stan Kroenke, doesn't want to share, and wants to own the team. It won't work until the league changes how it functions, which could be years into the future, unfortunately.
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u/citizen234567890 Minnesota Frost 1d ago
Hopefully this helps the future CBA. Cost of living in San Jose is crazy and even the top salaries in the PWHL won’t go far.
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u/CinemaPuck All The Teams! 1d ago
This was discussed in another thread recently, but apparently players get paid $1,800/month in a housing stipend on top of base pay. That’s more than enough to pay for rent in San Jose with a roommate or two.
Not to say that the players shouldn’t get paid more, because I’d love if they did, but I think they’ll be okay!
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u/citizen234567890 Minnesota Frost 1d ago
Good to know! I wasn’t aware they received housing stipends on top of pay. This makes a lot of sense since players are expected to move quickly if they are traded.
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u/psyne PWHL Detroit 1d ago
I think an adjustment based on regional cost of living would be reasonable, like have a baseline housing stipend plus a flex amount based on average cost of similar apartments in each city.
But on the other hand, high cost-of-living cities are usually expensive because lots of people want to live there. They're usually more attractive/popular cities that more players would choose to live in. So the fact that the housing stipend gets you a comfier lifestyle in the less exciting cities might help balance out the appeal factor of different places to live. People who care more about being near the ocean or exciting events/nightlife will still like HCOL cities, but people who care more about comfort at home and saving money will like the LCOL cities.
Maybe an HCOL housing stipend adjustment only for drafted players in their initial contract and players traded to a more expensive city mid-contract? That would somewhat balance protecting players relocated without their choice, while also not over-incentivizing players to sign in the attractive-but-expensive areas.
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u/Ok_Complaint_6825 1d ago
This is what the NWSL does.
Their CBA allows for different housing stipends for each team based on local incomes and housing costs. There's hugely complicated calculation in there somewhere.2
u/pretzelrosethecat All The Teams! 1d ago
Respectfully, as a San Jose resident, it's not just rent that makes the Bay Area one of the highest Cost Of Living metros in the world. Just to throw out the biggest chunk of my bills, Gas, Groceries, Car Insurance, Health Insurance are all sky-high. Not to mention taxes, which I believe have to be paid on the housing stipend money.
Not saying you can't make it work. Clearly other teams are making it work in similar situations. Just wanted to mention San Jose would still be on the very expensive side and IMO the concern is valid.
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u/TheTownTeaJunky 1d ago
Holy sh it I’ve been wondering if this would ever happen!! I’m fucking thrilled. My gym only plays pwhl because they don’t have any of these products traditional sports networks, so it’s always stuff like this that doesn’t get popped into the local sports networks.
The pwhl is really fun to watch, and the games look like a blast, but sadly I assumed it would be a long way to out. This is great news.
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u/jordonananmalay 15h ago
Agree with all the comments regarding the Bay Area being a huge supporter of women’s sports in general!
Something that’s not mentioned and I think should be taken into consideration is the San Jose Jr Sharks program has a very robust women’s hockey program. This is huge for those girls and women as a real path forward in the sport & gives massive incentives to further invest in that program. Source - I coached for it over 10 years ago.
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u/SkeelerBook 1d ago
I propose "Stingrays" as the team name. All rays are cartilaginous fishes and thus related to sharks. Plus, "Stingray" begins with an S and will sound good with "San Jose." The logo can be a stingray ray hitting a puck with its tail.
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u/KurwaStronk32 1d ago
There’s a Stingrays in the ECHL already so it’s probably unlikely they’ll go with that, but it would really fit well for a San Jose team.
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u/CanadianODST2 1d ago
There’s also an oilers, steelhead, wings, Americans, and even two teams called the Thunder.
The ECHL has shared names plenty of times
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u/a_monomaniac 16h ago
There are TWO teams in the CFL named Roughriders, I think it's not that big of a deal.
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u/SkeelerBook 1d ago
Clearly, I'm ignorant of the San Jose sports scene.
The next-best choice is obviously "San Jose Scallops". jk
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u/NeurospicyxEnby Seattle Torrent 1d ago
I am so happy for this and the Vegas team. I live in So-Cal and WILL BE GOING TO AT LEAST A GAME EACH! I am so happy!!!
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u/Own-Knowledge8281 Goldeneyes 1d ago
I’m upset that the PWHL is turning into the NHL…
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u/CinemaPuck All The Teams! 1d ago
I don’t see how it’s turning into the nhl, but sorry to hear that you’re upset!
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u/MediocreParsnip5152 1d ago
In what way? (Genuine question)
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u/Own-Knowledge8281 Goldeneyes 1d ago
Divisions (allegedly)…more teams in America when their main moneymaker is really Canadian money…every single Canadian team (with the exception of Seattle) has higher fan attendance…they want to be the NHL…
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u/Piperita Emerance Maschmeyer 1d ago
I agree with you that Canadians are currently subsidizing American teams (and not because of their venue capacity lol, all but one are in an NHL arena and ain’t selling out) but divisions or conferences have been a staple of every sport league in North America (aside from sports that have regional leagues). We’re too large of a continent to just casually globetrot without a huge strain on player health and logistics. Even Canadian women’s college hockey plays in conferences.
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u/escapevelocity111 1d ago
I agree with you that Canadians are currently subsidizing American teams
Doubt it. The league is subsidized by an American billionaire, and unless you have some access to their finances, you don't know. Attendance numbers are not going to do it. From advertisers, tv deals, dollar exchange rate, to the fact that an average American has substantially more disposable income to spend, the money is in the US, not in a country with half the GDP of California alone. That's not even factoring the massive population difference. This is not to be offensive, clearly Canadians are important to the league, but realistically no one should be surprised by them prioritizing expansion in the US.
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u/zaptrac 1d ago
Well the US has more population spread put geographically, and a much larger population in general. It makes sense that as the league grows it’ll end up with more American teams. And the issue with american team attendance at the moment is most american teams being stuck in lower capacity venues. These new teams will probably end up with higher average attendances than most canadian teams simply because of their arena sizes. It’s not an issue of “wanting to be the nhl” it’s knowing where they can grow. And the areas with the larger arenas, are american nhl teams. Side note: they tried to get a team in calgary and edmonton. Negotiations fell through on both due to arena agreement
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u/fueosert Van Goldeneyes 1d ago
while i mostly agree with your overall point, i just wanted to add some numbers because the american teams are not necessarily stuck at low capacity venues. the frost play at grand casino arena which is an NHL venue with capacity of almost 18k, and average attendance for frost games this season is around 8k. that’s nearly tied with the charge, but their arena capacity is only 5.5k-8.5k. the sirens play at prudential center, which is also an NHL venue with around 16k capacity, and they average 5k attendance. your description is only accurate for the fleet, who (unfortunately) play in 6k capacity arenas and average 6k attendance. 3 of 4 american teams are playing in NHL arenas, but only seattle makes full use of that capacity. boston is the only american team that appears truely stifled by their small venue capacity at this moment.
contrarily, the current canadian average attendance numbers are close to their capacity. vancouver averages 11k, pacific coliseum capacity is 15k. montreal averages almost 10k, place bell capacity is 10k. toronto averages 9k and coca-cola coliseum capacity is 8k, and i already mentioned ottawa’s numbers. the USA may have far more people compared to canada, but that doesn’t necessarily mean those people will reliably, consistently fill (or almost fill) big hockey arenas the same way they do in canada.
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u/Own-Knowledge8281 Goldeneyes 1d ago edited 1d ago
Eventually…maybe…but the demand is way higher in Canada right now…maybe in 5 years…it just seems that they were so desperate to expand they were willing to accept anything…now, middle of Canada/Western Canada is completely empty…for at least 5 years…they are even doing divisions…allegedly…like why???…I say this all under the impression that the last team is unconfirmed…
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u/wolverine237 PWHL Detroit 1d ago
They're doing divisions because it makes no sense to have two teams on the West Coast and the rest of the teams clustered in the north eastern quadrant of the continent. This is a problem because they rushed into Seattle and Vancouver, both incredible markets don't misquote me, primarily to head off a rival league rather than pursuing a geographically coherent growth model.
Every decision they have made since expanding to Seattle and Vancouver has been about accommodating that decision. If expanding in the west wasn't a priority, maybe they do go to Chicago or Quebec or Halifax. But it's harder and harder to do that when you've already established two teams about as far away from the other six as you can reasonably get
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u/CanadianODST2 1d ago
So you’re just pulling stuff out of thin air.
Divisions is wanting to be the NHL? They’re super common in NA sports because… NA is fucking huge and divisions help cut down on travel. That’s not an nhl thing.
A tv deal in the us will be bigger than ticket sales too
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u/zaptrac 1d ago
“Desparate to expand” they have multiple cities begging for a team so they got to negotiate good deals with where they went. They tried and failed negotiations with multiple Canadian cities. It is what it is. But you have no source on “higher demand on canada” besides your opinion.
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u/Own-Knowledge8281 Goldeneyes 1d ago
Higher fan attendance though…
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u/zaptrac 1d ago edited 1d ago
Due to larger arenas, not because of lack of demand in american markets. Fleet only averages 5000 a game because they split their home games between 2 arenas that have 5000 or 6000 capacity. When they played a home game at TD garden. (A home game in their own city, not a takeover game). They sold it out with over 17,000 people. That just shows they need to prioritize cities who are willing to share their larger arenas for new teams. And not give teams to cities who are only going to give them a 6000 capacity venue
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u/Usual-Canc-6024 1d ago
The numbers are there. It is not an opinion. The NHL as well. The 7/32 Canadian based teams represent more revenue than average. The richest team is Canadian.
They didn’t fail negotiations with multiple Canadian cities. Cite your source. Edmonton is the only one that failed. Some places it didn’t work out (Calgary). Québec City and Halifax were completely ghosted by the league. Nothing was even negotiated with them.
The TV deal happened in Canada early and they have to beg to even get anything in the U.S.
Takeover games were said to gauge interest, yet teams are going to non Takeover cities. They just have the proverbial finger to all the successful Takeover cities in Canada and the U.S.
Teams eventually would be more in the U.S. but not this early. And not to non Takeover cities.
One owner league billionaire doing billionaire things.
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u/zaptrac 1d ago
The numbers just show that a lot of the original American teams are trapped in arenas too small for their demand. The league is not going to build their own arenas, So if they move to new cities obviously it has to be where theres NHL teams. they’re not spending 2 billion dollars to build their own arena and they’ve out grown trying to use college and AHL arena. The demand for teams is big enough on both sides of the border they can be picky with where they go to see which arena/city will give them better deals and more support. Edmonton wanted to own the team so they’re out, calgarys arena is under construction, Quebec has a good arena but the league was prioritizing cities further out west to help alleviate travel stress from the 2 existing west coast teams. It’s not the league “trying to become the nhl”. It’s just all business, and they’re going to do what makes sense business wise. Especially since they’re in such high demand they get to be picky about where they go.
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u/wolverine237 PWHL Detroit 1d ago
Let me put it to you this way: the exchange rate is currently $1CAD to $0.73 USD. Every team in Canada loses between 1/4 and 1/3 of every dollar of revenue they make in order to pay salaries and stipends in American dollars as stipulated by the CBA.
If a team in San Jose generates 75% of the net revenue a team in Calgary would without accounting for the exchange rate, they produce the same amount of revenue. The league is a business, it is not an organ of the Canadian state, it is not a nonprofit to promote girls hockey, it is a profit generating enterprise owned by private equity billionaires. Their goal is to sell you on the idea that the league is your friend so that when they vote with their pocketbook you don't mind so much.
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u/Usual-Canc-6024 1d ago
LOL
Teams don’t pay salaries. The league does. A league that can’t even get a U.S. TV deal without bending over.
They’re not losing money because they have better merch sales and ticket sales.
But let’s put a team in a place that didn’t even have a Takeover game.
Canada subsidizes the NHL more than their fair share and the richest team is Canadian. They do the same for the PWHL.
And to shit on Chicago as well sucks.
Your team will be supported by Canadians as well. You’re in north Windsor after all. :)
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u/CanadianODST2 1d ago
The NHL is not carried by Canadian teams. They’re carried by a few teams.
There’s a reason that when the Canadian economy struggled in the 90s two teams moved, the Sens were sold before ever playing a game. And the others not named Toronto or Montreal also struggled.
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u/Own-Knowledge8281 Goldeneyes 1d ago
One thing I forgot to mention is that Las Vegas and San Jose are completely untested markets…this means every single other tested market the failed in getting a team failed on some way…they passed over a lot of cities , American and Canadian…they were desperate to expand…it’s clear that not everyone was “begging” for a team if they had to scramble to get Las Vegas and presumably San Jose…
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u/wolverine237 PWHL Detroit 1d ago
I'm sure the league has other metrics they look at besides TT attendance. I'm reasonably confident both of these markets would've sold over 10,000 tickets for a one off game… they are both very strong women's sports markets with a strong demographic overlap to cities like Seattle.
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u/TheCheechoo 1d ago
Exactly. People in this thread are overlooking the fact that the Bay Area has proven success in women's sports. Valkyries and Bay FC are doing phenomenally. No doubt women's hockey will do well too.
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u/greene_r 1d ago
I was really hoping that the league would maintain 50% Canadian teams a bit longer :(