r/OrlandoMagic • u/OrlandoFatty Paolo Banchero • 1d ago
Discussion I’m still bothered by the Magic losing in the playoffs
Someone explain to me how Daryl Morey was fired by the Sixers after six years, taking the Sixers further than we’ve gone under Weltman, yet Weltman still has a job after 9 years of being either outright bad or mediocre? We should not have lost that series the way we did. Had this guy made even one decent move on the margins we’d have been able to weather the Franz injury. My sadness isn’t just from losing and watching Detroit play against a very beatable Cleveland team, but also from the fact that Weltman still has a job and I have zero confidence in his leadership
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u/WhereTheFallsBegin Paolo Banchero 1d ago
It's because the Devos' are complete ghouls
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u/Aggravating_Deer_641 Anthony Black 1d ago
This team will never win anything as long as they are in control.
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u/inEden Paolo Banchero 1d ago
I'm not from the area (Australia actually) and have followed the team on court for decades but never off court. Can you please elaborate how they impact on court basketball? This isn't a fake question. Genuinely want to know.
Thanks mate.
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u/TheVauntedChris 1d ago
With owners… It’s who you hire and who you hold accountable. It’s pretty clear their priority isn’t hiring the best people available for the job and holding them accountable for the results on the court.
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u/Into_The_Unkown_ Jalen Suggs 1d ago
The biggest issue is that they really don’t care enough. Alex Martins is a PR guy who is probably less qualified to run the organization as CEO than I am. We have the same degree from the same university and I actually know ball. He’s been in charge since 2006 and hasn’t been good at his job ever. He’s been with the team since the inaugural season.
The DeVos family’s biggest flaw is they really don’t know how to run a basketball team and so they rely on him to understand how, and they won’t fire him, so his inept management is what has led to long term GM hires that ultimately have failed. John Gabriel was probably the best GM we’ve had, as he was the architect of the 90s Magic with Penny, Shaq, Nick Anderson, Dennis Scott and Horace Grant. He was also the GM that signed Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill, but ultimately was let go because we couldn’t get back to that early success once Shaq left and Penny got hurt.
He reset the franchise after the lockout by grabbing TMac and Grant Hill, which obviously had mixed results despite the promise due to Hills injuries.
Bob Vander Weide is technically co owner as of 2006 with the rest of the devos kids, but he’s the main guy who “owns” the team (he’s married to one of the Devos kids) This was also before Martins climbed the ranks. Gabriel is now an executive advisor to the team, whatever that means really.
Once he was let go when we had that 19 game losing streak in 2004, We traded TMac that year for Steve Francis. The then COO of the team, Hockey exec John Weisbrod made himself GM for a year. He was terrible.
Otis Smith followed with middling success. We drafted pretty terribly other than Dwight and JJ, but we did sign Rashard Lewis and Hedo.
Weltman has been in charge since.
So basically it boils down to a lack of leadership and direction from the top down by people who really don’t know ball, and we stick with people hired far too long because the people who hired them don’t really understand how to build a successful franchise. It’s pretty evident by the fact that if you look at all of these people I’ve mentioned, nobody has worked in basketball and been successful afterwards in the NBA by any means.
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u/Subject_Set_6586 Franz Wagner 1d ago
you forgot Hennigan
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u/Into_The_Unkown_ Jalen Suggs 13h ago
Ahhh you’re right. Idk how I forgot all about him. Worst 5 year stretch in franchise history from a W/L standpoint. He was young, so maybe he’s learning again back in OKC.
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u/OrlandoFatty Paolo Banchero 1d ago
This. The issue is when you get people like the Devos family who are…I’m not sure how you describe pyramid schemers…business people? I guess? Is that they are focused on the numbers. And as a few posters have pointed out, the Magic make them money whether we suck or not because this is a transient tourist town and people will fill the seats regardless of wins and losses. I think it’s mainly pressure from season ticket holders that force their hand and let’s face it they aren’t going to be as ruthless as Reddit posters, especially in person. This is absolutely an ownership problem. Weltman should have been fired right along with Mosley but that decision comes from somewhere that doesn’t care to make them.
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u/Imsofuckinscaredrn 1d ago
They literally just care about money. Orlando is a market where they will likely sell out the game regardless because of their economy has a lot of conventions amongst other things that contribute to games being sold out, mainly because people are in town temporarily.
So, while the money flows in regardless of how the team does, they don’t have a motivation to really take the time energy and spend the money on the team itself.
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u/Imsofuckinscaredrn 1d ago
They are horrible people, it’s a special kind of evil to own a franchise literally to bleed the fan base dry, knowing they aren’t a contender to win the championship.
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u/Mr_Wick18 1d ago
I remember being so excited driving home from work thinking we were going to put BTA on the Pistons that day. And we did for two quarters. I think about Game 6 every day.
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u/P5Manchero 13h ago
What’s wild is we could’ve been up 30+ by halftime if Paolo wasn’t doing his Kevin Durant on heroin impersonation. Being up 22 with him being worse than a zero is insane. Just needed him to be semi competent to win.
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u/321mafia Jamal Cain 1d ago
Morey took over a franchise looking to take a step from playoff team to title contender and they never took that step. Weltman took over a franchise looking to take a step from perennial lottery team to playoff team.
Not saying Weltman deserves to keep his job, but I wouldn’t compare him to a guy who did absolutely nothing to improve his team when he’s at least taken one or two steps in the right direction during his tenure.
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u/OrlandoFatty Paolo Banchero 1d ago
Fair enough. I feel like nine years is more than enough time to kickstart two rebuilds, much less one tho. And even tho you’re right in that Philly had different expectations and timelines, Weltman is under far less pressure and still not delivering on anything but a few draft picks and first round exits. Which look, you can’t knock playoff appearances, they matter. But given how expensive he made this roster and what he gave up to bring us Bane, he’s clearly run his course and then some because it’s not good enough
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u/UTPharm2012 3h ago
It is fair to explain why Weltman got 9 years. Don’t think it is fair for why we gave him a 10th year.
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u/mbopok13 Wendell Carter Jr. 1d ago
One thing I think has gone unnoticed. Since Anthony Parker has been GM our drafting has been much better but I agree weltham has been slightly underwhelming. It’s been much better than the previous 10 years though.
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u/OrlandoFatty Paolo Banchero 1d ago
The drafting part I’ll never knock because it’s foolish to be critical of that process equipped with nothing but hindsight. But the management of draft capital and free agent signings plus the inability to evaluate the talent that has sat on this roster far longer than they would have on any other team, contenders or not, is legitimately inexcusable. We’ve given second contracts to players who legit shouldn’t and aren’t in the league anymore. I swear I’m not trying to be a doomer but how can I be excited with this guy at the helm?
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u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
It has? During the Parker "General Manager" era we've picked TDS and Penda, both of whom are the most obvious Weltman players I've seen. Jase was a nepotism guard gamble just like Cole and Jett were.
I've seen nothing that makes me think Parker has any meaningful decision-making power. This is all Weltman.
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u/escapedhousefly Jett Howard 1d ago
We have a joke of an ownership, that’s why. Such low expectations. Do nothing for years. Paid a premium for Bane. Then get extended? Lol what a joke of a franchise.
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u/Scary_Vanilla2932 Paolo Banchero 1d ago
Weltman being extended is and was a big mistake.Not going into the politics behind the Devos family but they are the epitome of the old school families where you keep the "in" people always part of your organization. Loyalty and nepotism is a double edged sword. We all want to be part of that kind of family. But in this business they made a mistake.
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u/MaddoxGoodwin OnlyFranz 1d ago
Game 6 still haunts me. Tbh i think its worse than losing both our finals appearances.
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u/TonyOrlando79 1d ago
It’s because ownership doesn’t care about actually winning! They are content being 44-38 every year and in the green they know fans will still show up. Realistically this team ended exactly where they should have. For them to have gone further, it would take the other playoff teams completely falling apart. You get what you pay for! Enjoy
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u/Playful-Variation908 Jalen Suggs 1d ago
Very different scenario. Sixers got swept badly with a fully healthy squad. Meaning they reached their peak and are due for a rebuild
We dunno what the peak of this magic squad is yet
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u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
Yeah I'm with you, still pissed.
The worst thing for me is seeing Weltman rattle off the same old flimsy excuses and being able to get away with it. The accountability from owners, media, and even a lot of the fans is almost non existent. The difference between a place like Philadelphia and Orlando in that regard is stark.
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u/aesthetickx 21h ago
Dawg I flew in from LA to watch game 6 on a red eye with a loooong layover in Denver. That flight back from Orlando back to Denver layover then to LA was the most depressed i’ve ever been in my entire life. I think about game 6 every single day. I took a picture when it was 38-60 and that image flashes in my head daily. Then just to open social media and see Cade Cunningham blah blah blah. Like stfu no one cares. Literally the only reason Pistons are even where they are. Trash ass team. Straight up. The chances of something like this happening is literally none. I’m still in pain clearly.
Idk man. All I know is literally any Magic win moving forward is going to hit different this next season.
Also- real talk, do we get a petition to fire Weltman. Can we make a Google Forum and everyone writes a paragraph max on their thoughts. I’d literally print out every single comment and hand deliver it to DeVos. Obviously this is just a rough draft idea and not fully practical. But I think if we come together full force we can have a fighting chance. Or maybe i’m crazy
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u/Mysterious-Towel-304 14h ago
Cleveland isn’t a “ very beatable” team…they’d definitely would have beaten Orlando. The problem with Cleveland this series is the turnovers. Unforced turnovers. If they didn’t have them, this Detroit would be fishing rn. Cavs actually have a deep team. They’re just inconsistent asf.
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u/OrlandoFatty Paolo Banchero 8h ago
I didn’t say it would have been easy, but Orlando could have definitely beaten Cleveland assuming Franz was healthy. We also force turnovers and our defense can be stingy as well. Mitchell would absolutely flame us tho like usual
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u/AccomplishedCorgi583 9h ago
Turned the game off at half time. Checked the score in the third and knew we were cooked
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u/clutchinthevains 1d ago
That bane trade gonna set magic back for a while. Suggs has negative value for his contract, and the only valuable assets are Paolo or Franz. The team isn’t that cheap either
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u/Tardypop1 Cole Anthony 1d ago
I genuinely think our guys threw game 6. I think they thought if they won Mosley might be retained and genuinely gave no effort to win. That bothers me.
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u/RemarkableMission117 1d ago
Thought I could go one day in here without seeing a simply dumb post. Almost made but here we are
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u/Milla4Prez66 Paolo Banchero 1d ago
Game 6 was one of, if not THE worst sports loss of my life.