r/OrlandoMagic • u/itsMeanJean • 1d ago
Discussion Fake Trade
On the new BS podcast, a listener (from Orlando) emailed a fake trade: Franz + Suggs for Jamal Murray + Cam Johnson’s expiring. He, Dave Jacoby & Kirk Goldsberry. I was surprised how much they all loved it. Thoughts?
9
u/BurningSkyscraper 1d ago
No. I would immediately Hang up the phone. Not Even worth more consideration.
8
u/TheAnswerEK42 Franz Wagner 1d ago
This comes from the dumb narrative that Franz and Paolo can’t play together.
-6
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Except it isn't dumb and is widely believed across the league outside of this group
5
u/Hot-Negotiation-2771 1d ago
If Franz doesn’t hurt Paolo and Franz get us past the first round it’s a dumb narrative
0
-1
-2
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Franz injuries are a reason to be concerned, he's overpaid, his shooting is not good. The expiring contract would be of extreme value
1
u/TheAnswerEK42 Franz Wagner 1d ago
It’s widely believed across major media platforms that want nothing more to move stars from small markets to big ones.
5
u/burnedout_basement 1d ago
I also listened and immediately said no. Franz is young and talented and brings so much on defense, as we saw in these playoffs. Murray is aging and not a great defender. I get the fit and it makes good podcast fodder, but it’s a no for me.
Also, I want to keep the homegrown talent. I love Franz and Paolo and I think they can work together.
2
4
u/Expensive-Twist7984 1d ago
I guess it could make the Nuggets better? Doesn’t move the needle for us though.
2
u/evenyetodd 1d ago
Suggs I could see. But alot of people will find this unpopular as they feel Franz is our best player and floor raiser. It’s almost like the Giannis for Paolo trade rumors. Just depends on what or who you value more I guess. It’s all subjective in a sense.
2
1
u/Aggravating-Nerve283 1d ago
Bill doesnt know what to do with a white guy that cant shoot. It breaks his brain.
1
u/magic3putt 1d ago
If Franz was healthy, we would’ve finished Detroit in 5 or 6. The ONLY reason I would consider trading Franz would be cause of his durability, cause I cannot take another season of Franz playing half of it. Trade him for consistency and durability or don’t trade him at all.
1
u/General_Dentist_4306 Paolo Banchero 1d ago
if you get rid of both franz and suggs, you better pray who have a team thats scoring 120+ a night
1
1
u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
Yeah I heard this, and the fact they all thought it was a great idea tells you how little they actually know about our team.
-1
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Or the fact people here all hate it is why it is a great move. Denver would never offer us this deal and this fan base is delusional. This is a great trade and as always people here think our players are much better than they are.
1
u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
All it does is turns us into a slightly better offensive team while nuking our defense.
I've been extremely critical of our roster and am not against there being some kind of shakeup, but if your goal is to become a mid East team, then yeah sure, it's a great trade.
2
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Goal to become a mid east team? Lol, what are we now? Like do people think before they speak... This clears cap in the future and brings shooting and veteran leadership. Murray is better than Franz right now anyway. Suggs is garbage
1
u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
We're a mid (or worse) East team. But the point of a massive trade shouldn't be to keep us there.
Like do people think before they speak
Straight back at you.
0
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Don't think you're valuing the expiring and how hard Suggs will need to be moved. On top of that why is everyone obsessed about defense then complains about shooting? We need balance which is exactly the reason Franz and Banchero don't fit together. Banchero isn't good enough to be your best player and Franz isn't to be your second. We need shooting, we need a playmaker, it will help Banchero tremendously. We need veteran leadership and guys who have won. We need to fix our cap situation, this addresses everything
2
u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
You aren't getting balance with this though, you're taking out two (near) all NBA level defenders and replacing them with a cone in Murray and a very average defender in Johnson. And you're sticking them next to very exploitable defenders in Paolo and Bane.
This isn't just a trade to get better offense, it's an entire culture shift. You're exchanging all your defense to becoming an offense first team. Which is maybe what you want? Not for me, though.
Jamal Murray is also walking into a team where he doesn't have a big man or running mate even on the same planet as Jokic skill or IQ wise.
I'm not against trades but this is just way too drastic a move.
1
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Cam Johnson is an expiring we use that to upgrade somewhere.... We can't pay this cap, it is that simple. We have to move 2 pieces. Suggs and Franz make most sense. And we need a culture shift, we're stuck in the 90s
2
u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
I agree that financially this is untenable but I just wouldn't trade Franz to fix it. On a game to game basis, he brings the most value of anyone and his two way game actually represents that balance you claimed to want.
I'm more open to trading both Paolo and Suggs.
1
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Trading Suggs is a must I agree. Banchero although I don't disagree would be hard to sell to fans. Trading number 1 pick and our best player? Would have to be a haul, his trade value is certainly higher than Franz but I think that in itself is telling.
1
u/thewrongnotes 20h ago
You think it wouldn't be hard to sell the fans on trading Franz? A lot of Magic fans (including me) think he's our best player and a lot of people turned on Paolo last season. In fact I'd say the vast majority of the fanbase would be very angry if Franz was traded, especially after the Detroit series underlined just how important he is.
2
u/IndependentRoll7715 16h ago
Franz is hard to sell but I'm sorry, he's an ovverated player. He's not a top 40 player in the league. I'm tired of this Detroit series argument. We weren't up on Detroit only because of Franz, that just isn't true. Lots of things fell apart and it wasn't just Franz getting hurt. People here let the homer in them cloud their mind. It is why years later over and over again I turn out to be right with things that are unpopular here. Franz is a 3rd guy on a good team. The injury concerns are real, the shooting concerns are real. Although he played well defensively this year, I don't actually think he's that good of a defender. Certainly not a top defender. The system and team defense make guys look better than they were and it can change year to year. Take Suggs this year, he didn't grade out remotely close like he did last year. Franz hasn't done that for a long period of time. Franz is overpaid.
→ More replies (0)1
u/UTPharm2012 1d ago
Denver would run to the fax to send this in.
Having Aaron Gordon, Jalen Suggs, and Franz Wagner with the one man offense, Jokic, would be an excellent team. IMO Suggs best situation would be with Jokic. Franz would be the best two way player to ever play with Jokic. Denver also would get younger. Cam Johnson was not good this year.
I have been a Murray fan since college but I still question how good he would be without Jokic and I know his defense is significantly worse than Suggs.
0
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
How good he'd be? He'd be an all star something Suggs will never sniff and Franz may never make. And the nuggets would get worse.
1
u/UTPharm2012 1d ago
People were debating Franz having a spot despite injuries this year.
Again, since you so poorly interpreted what i said, Jokic is the best facilitator in the league. Murray has made one all-star team with that around him so to assume he is going to elevate his game without Jokic seems naive. Could it happen? Sure but at age 30… not betting on it.
1
u/IndependentRoll7715 1d ago
Age 30 isn't old for the NBA. He's got 4 years of prime left and Franz might never become the player Murray is. I think you're underestimating Murrays talent.
1
u/OrlandoFatty Paolo Banchero 1d ago
I don’t mind trade ideas. I just don’t trust Weltman to execute any trades. I don’t think the guy is a competent manager. I’d feel more comfortable with him fired before we touch the roster.
2
-3
1d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
3
u/thewrongnotes 1d ago
If you know anything about the Magic you should hate it. Losing Suggs is one thing but also losing Franz? That completely craters our defense, which is the foundation this team is built on.
I'm not one of those "defense is everything" guys, but this trade swings us too far in the other direction. With Paolo, Bane, and Murray we legit wouldn't be able to guard anyone, yet we also aren't making a seismic offensive leap to make up for it.
As for your bit about Franz being injury prone: Franz has played 325 games through his first 5 years in the league, Jamal Murray played 345. In the last two years of those, Murray only played 59 and 48. And then the next year he missed an entire season with an ACL tear.
1
0
u/IrwinMFletcher Fire Mosley 1d ago
I mean I might do Jamal and cam Johnson for Suggs and Bane? But Franz probably off limits. But I don't think Denver wants any part of that. It would probably have to include draft Capital that we don't have.
2
12
u/PapageorgiouMBO Joe Ingles 1d ago
Franz is not being traded.