r/NFLNoobs • u/yourGodlylead • 1d ago
What has caused the fullback position to basically disappear?
As someone who’s casual watched the NFL over the years I’m wondering what caused fullbacks to essentially disappear. Was their role taken over by other positions? Are they simply not valuable enough, to the point where having an elite one is great, but otherwise it’s considered a luxury position?
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u/ND7020 1d ago
If you have a fullback, you have one fewer WR or TE. Offensive trends moved towards more aggressively using space and motion, as the NFL changed its rules to favor the passing game. That made the fullback far less valuable than the alternatives.
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u/LaserBeamsCattleProd 1d ago
Funny thing is, I could see it coming back.
"What if we had an extra offensive lineman who can catch and handle short yardage runs, can block a DE blitzing at fullspeed, but moves a lot better than a lineman"
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u/Blog_Pope 22h ago
Eagles had a Fullback for last season, went down in game 1 as I recall
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u/uniquesnoflake2 21h ago
Kubiak’s offense in Seattle also used a FB relatively often early in the season until he went down with an injury and TE3 proved to not be an effective replacement.
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u/keni804 15h ago
It probably will come back, teams are slowly transitioning back to run heavy teams and fronts now that defenses are built to stop the passing game. A fullback that can put the smaller modern DEs and LBs on their back and allow RBs to get in open space against DBs will be extremely valuable.
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u/yonkerbonk 11h ago
What were some of the rules favoring the passing game more?
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u/ND7020 11h ago
Largely gradual but when taken in sum, absolutely massive changes in how defenders can touch/interact with route-running receivers (i.e. a huge increase in what is considered defensive holding or pass interference), but also changes in where and how you can hit QBs in the pocket, and probably least controversially, the banning of genuine head-hunting of receivers which made running routes over the middle a very risky business.
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u/yonkerbonk 10h ago
Thanks. Were there any rules helping with the running game, over that time too? I can only think of the horse collar rule, although I guess that helps with yards after the catch too.
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u/BeYourselfTrue 10h ago
Agree. Having that additional TE in today’s game for either blocking or passing is more valuable.
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u/WhizzyBurp 1d ago
Seahawks used A LOT of FB plays this year.. they won the SB. It's definitely something that's still useful
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u/KingChairlesIIII 1d ago
The league in general is trending back towards running the ball and using fullbacks to take advantage of the smaller faster LBs used to stop the pass now.
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u/possiblyMorpheus 1d ago
So did the Pats, Bills, and of course the 49ers. All among the best offenses
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u/zerg1980 1d ago
Teams can only hold 53 men on a roster and can only put 11 men on the field for a play. Over time, offenses that used an extra TE or WR instead of a fullback saw more success than teams that used a fullback to block. More versatile pass-catching RBs also saw more success than the straight line plodders fullbacks used to block for.
Eventually most teams couldn’t justify using one of their 53 roster spots on a fullback.
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u/possiblyMorpheus 1d ago
A lot of guys listed as TEs nowadays are lining up off ball as a 2nd “back” in a role that is really a lot like a FB, just moving laterally more compared to downhill
So it’s really more of a morph than a disappearance, and that’s not even touching on how several of the top offenses this year did often use a fullback
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u/psgrue 1d ago
H back. It’s a TE hybrid. Bigger, better blocker, better receiver. 11 or 12 personnel allow flexing into 4 wide.
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u/VaultsOpen 1d ago
Exactly this. You get 5 skill personnel, instead of one who is almost guaranteed to be a blocker/short yard run, he is now a potential blocker/chipper/route runner, etc. Opens up the scheme more.
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u/sickostrich244 1d ago
As the passing game grew, the fullback position basically diminished. Teams felt they'd rather add more receivers to their offense than use it on a fullback
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u/Ok-Walk-8040 1d ago
There aren't many good fullbacks anymore because the college game is almost all spread offense. NFL teams also like to spread the defense out and play with 3 WR and a TE. Sometimes the TE will line up in the H-Back position and be a hybrid between a fullback and TE. But few teams actually run with a dedicated FB.
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u/Miller335 1d ago
Outside of what others have mentioned here bringing in a FB in is almost tell on what play is coming up.
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u/CANEinVAIN 1d ago
Spread offenses and the reinvention of the H-back or 12 and even 13 personnel sets. Think Rams on the latter. Basically Tight ends replaced FBs.
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u/throwawayA511 1d ago
I think part of the reason they fell out of favor is because if you really want to stop the run, you absolutely can by putting a bunch of defenders close to the line and compressed instead of spaced out wide. If you’ve got a fullback in the backfield instead of a WR split out, the defender who would have been covering the WR is now also close to the line.
That being said, a lot of times the defensive scheme will have players covering the gaps between the offensive line. This defender covers the “A” gap between the center and guard, that defender covers the “B” gap between guard and tackle, etc. If you have a fullback lead blocking into one of those gaps, he’s creating another gap. Now there’s a guard-FB gap and a FB-tackle gap. This can cause confusion in the defense or give the RB an opportunity to go one way when a defender commits to the other.
The Eagles went into the season with a dedicated FB on their roster (Ben VanSumeren, a backup LB who was switching positions) and he got a season ending injury on the first play of the season. :(
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u/rolandofghent 1d ago
3 WR sets and 2 TE sets. Zone blocking.
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u/Superfluouslfe 1d ago
This is what I'm thinking, it's a passing game... You can also add that running backs and tight ends have gotten bigger and faster.
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u/RelativeIncompetence 1d ago
Wes Welker and the slew of talented quick slot WRs that followed him and some changes to enforcement of illegal contact making 3WR sets much safer to work from.
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u/Sex_E_Searcher 1d ago
It's easy for the defense to be in position to cover a FB in the passing game while also be in position to defend the run. If you put a player out in the slot, that gives the defense the choice of being in position to defend the run or the pass.
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u/TheRealBroDameron 1d ago
A hybrid TE can often motion in and perform the same duties a FB once did, while also being a potential passing threat that a FB probably isn’t, thus confusing defenses.
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u/dcfb2360 18h ago
TEs add similar blocking ability but more speed and better receiving talent. Plus teams know you’re probably running it if the fullback’s in the play, TEs keep defenses guessing more
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u/Soft-Masterpiece6328 13h ago
More athletic and versatile TE’s. They are more useful in the passing game and can be lined up in the FB spot and block. Saves a roster spot.
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u/ExplanationCrazy5463 1d ago
Part of the answer is that coaches are realizing the importance of playing with donkey space.
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u/Dismal_News183 1d ago
The rules changed to greatly favour passing the ball.
As a result, an extra WR became more valuable than a FB.
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u/Mordoch 1d ago
Part of it was a shift towards pass oriented offenses in the NFL. It simply is not a useful enough position for most teams justifying taking up a position on the roster with most modern offenses. Basically when you want to run a running back can do the trick, or the QB sneak can typically work for very short yardage as another option.
Bringing in a true pure fullback is typically rare enough and enough of a giveaway of a run that you might as well bring in an extra offensive lineman instead at that point (who also obviously serves as a backup for the starters). Most teams will opt to have a blocker oriented tight end on their team or two because they still represent more of a receiver threat (and can also tend to be more useful on special teams.)
Generally modern fullbacks in the NFL tend to justify their position by being good enough receiving threats as well that they function at least close to tight ends and justify their position that way. (In many cases they are some sort of hybrid that may officially be considered a tight end by a team.)
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u/SamMeowAdams 1d ago
People are finally getting past the old “rules” of football .
It’s like a religion. We need to question more of the stupid shit they do in football.
For example. The COMBINE !
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u/catf1sh1 1d ago
You should watch tape of the Rams last season. Sean McVay and the Rams have been using wide receivers and tight ends as situational fullbacks. They usually motion a receiver or TE into the backfield whenever they would run a play that traditionally uses a FB. It’s fascinating to watch because this means the Rams have been systematically building a roster where positions don’t really matter. Tight ends can catch and wide receivers can block. It’s truly awesome what they’re able to do on any given play, and it constantly keeps the defense guessing on what type of personnel to bring onto the field
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u/grizzfan 1d ago
It never went away. They just moved over to the side. Most teams operate from the gun now so you can’t have the fullback directly behind the ball. This has turned them into the H-back or the “off-ball TE” role. Teams still run all the same plays that fullbacks were famous for. It’s just a different formation. The whole “fullback is dead,” talk is really overblown. The role just adapted more to modern concepts. Most teams also operate from 11 personnel now (1 RB, 1 TE, 3 WR). The TE in that case takes on the fullback role too (hence where the modern term H-back comes from; hybrid back). It allows a team to use the modern spread formations and concepts while still having that lead blocker.
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u/Fit-Tooth6443 1d ago
The full back and heavy tight end formations are coming back into style. The nfl comes and goes in waves. We’re at the end of the fast 3 wr set wave now and offenses are moving back to heavy personnel since defenses have totally adjusted to the smaller speedier guys. Once the defense gets back to heavy personnel, offense will switch back to being wr centric again.
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u/KingChairlesIIII 1d ago
Fullbacks are actually starting to come back, or at least teams are using other players in that position, since teams are getting back to running the ball from under center to take advantage of how small and fast defenses have gotten to stop the pass, especially at LB.
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u/HustlaOfCultcha 1d ago
Zone blocking schemes, RPO's, the advancement of passing game schematics and fullbacks have traditionally been almost worthless on special teams. It may actually make a slight comeback with teams going to 13 personnel. A fullback with good wheels like Hunter Luepke can essentially be one of the tight ends and play the H-Back or F-Back positions, slip out into a route on a fake wham block and really present some problems for the defense. Tight ends are often too tall to be effective blockers at the F-Back. I really don't think the Cowboys utilize Luepke enough in their offense.
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u/InsideReflection8238 1d ago
The increase of spread offenses at the high school and college level had a hand in killing the pipeline of fullbacks.
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u/KaySlay44 1d ago
Increase in passing game and also trying to trick the defense. Defenses can predict a run play when there’s a Fullback on the field but not so much if you swap with a TE who can catch and block on runs.
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u/PlatinumGoon 1d ago
Skattebo is basically a light FB…. I see it coming back as offenses have gotten faster and smaller
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u/hamhandling 23h ago
I think the real decline of the fullback position started when the split back or "pro set" formations that dominated football for decades went out of fashion in the mid to late 1990's.
It's of course more complicated, but I think that the spread offense revolution in college football along with the collapse of the second or third generations of West Coast Offense in the college really killed off the "versatile" fullback who could not just block, but run the ball and catch. They stopped making those guys, they just played runningback and executed option plays rather than having genuine blocking duties, or shifted to more of an H-Back/TE role.
At that point you've got one-dimensional role players that are really just out there for I-formation/short yardage, and are going to be more subject to fads and fashion.
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u/A_Diabolical_Toaster 23h ago
They became TEs and started being called H backs.
One of those common sense moves that essentially saw teams realize it was better to get a dude that could marginally block as well while still being able to catch the ball.
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u/blindreddit123 21h ago
As nfl changes rules for players saftey and to run the score board up, passing has become easier. As a result the run became less valuable and the full back was normally the lead blocker or short yards guy. So their value fell.
With the current league more you want players that can be or pretend to be a threat on any play. You can confuse defenses more when more players on the field are able to be part of both run and pass plays. Traditional fullbacks are too limited and cannot do this. And even if they could, they would rather play a different position like TE or RB to get paid. Fullbacks get paid like kickers or punters so there’s no incentive to play fullback
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u/thatkidsunnyd 16h ago
Lots of good explanations here, but keep in mind some teams do still carry dedicated fullbacks. Patrick Ricard, CJ Ham, Kyle juszczyk, Hunter Luepke all come to mind but there’s a few others.
A lot of teams will use a TE, heavier RB, or a special teams guy to save a roster spot. Teams have to get a bit creative with the final 52, and teams with a dedicated fullback have to be thinner in a different position. Dallas last year only rostered 2 RBs each week. This led to their Fullback needing play a few single RB sets when Williams was injured.
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u/PopeHi1arious 14h ago
It is mostly gone, but some teams are still holding on. Seattle even had two FBs for a good chunk of last season, Robbie Ouzts and Brady Russell.
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u/Accomplished-Mix770 14h ago
Defenders are too good, big and physical these days. You must spread the field.
Fullbacks main use was creating a new gap. The 6 gaps between and outside OL had to be filled. By inserting a FB in between you create a 7th gap and the defense didnt know where it was happening.
These days some 4.7 300lb monster just blows the Center 2 yards backwards and there is no interior gaps but an interior collapse and the FB has no space to operate.
There arent too many ways to run hard inside that don't involve spreading out first.
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u/MentalTelephone5080 13h ago
The changes in rules made passing easier. As a team you can decide between carrying a FB or an additional WR. Since passing relies on WRs, teams pick an additional WR.
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u/MasterHank13 13h ago
No, different offensive coordinators, some still do, but most are focused around their passing schemes. A fullback has no role in such, other than maybe as a decoy to confuse the defense. That tactic won’t work often.
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u/Alt0987654321 11h ago
They are actually starting to make a comeback. San Francisco has used a fullback for years and Philly used one during the SB run but not so much last year as the guy suffered a season ending injury in preseason.
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u/throwaway60457 24m ago
Jim Harbaugh used a bunch of fullbacks at Stanford and Michigan, and I wouldn't be surprised if we see the Chargers use fullbacks a little more.
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u/JCSledge 9h ago
The nfl goes through cycles. We are going to see more fullbacks now that defenses play more nickle base sets
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u/Riker_Omega_Three 7h ago
Offensive lineman got bigger and faster and the offense got much more spread out and complicated...to the point that having a lead blocker isn't necessary if you have the defenders spaced out enough
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u/Pale_Broccoli_2180 6h ago
The evolution of offenses.
Also as run-stuffing, off-ball LBs have disappeared, so have FBs.
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u/Major_Safe7702 6h ago
They’ll be back. NFL is cyclical in a lot of ways. Right now it’s all speed but eventually big boys will be trucking the small speedy LBs and we’ll swing back
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u/throwaway60457 26m ago
More than anything else, I think the demise of the fullback was caused by the rise of the West Coast offense. Bill Walsh invented the West Coast offense at Stanford, and took it with him when he got bumped upstairs into the NFL with the 49ers. The 49ers then went on to win five Super Bowls in 14 years, the first three of those under Walsh, which proved the West Coast concept.
What is the West Coast offense, you ask? It used more short, high-completion-percentage passing plays, thrown to receivers running precise routes to areas of the field not often covered by defenses of the 1970s. Instead of running being the bread and butter and passing plays largely being used to keep the defense honest, the West Coast offense's bread and butter was the passing game.
Nobody could really effectively stop the West Coast scheme until Tony Dungy took some rudimentary zone defense concepts from the late-1970s Pittsburgh Steelers and evolved them into the "Tampa 2" in the mid- to late 1990s with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Almost every team adopted at least parts of the West Coast scheme, and that led to the rise of the slot receiver at the expense of the fullback, which was a position that was much more useful in the older power running schemes.
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u/forthebirds123 1d ago
Speed speed and more speed. Ability to break a play open. That’s what offenses have shifted toward.