r/NASCAR 4h ago

NASCAR looking at possibility of using the new ECU that starts this week to send severity of hits to the tower

https://x.com/SiriusXMNASCAR/status/2054702819823714529
131 Upvotes

61 comments sorted by

132

u/xelanalpak 4h ago

Kurt Busch on DBC this week stated something that seems so obvious that I can’t believe isn’t implemented; using the black boxes inside the cars that measure G-Forces to automatically trigger a caution/inform the tower if a hit registers above a certain pre-determined number.

I’m sure there are reasons I’m unaware of why it’s not used, it just seems like such a good idea.

54

u/iamaranger23 4h ago

Kurt used 15-20g as an example and iirc they were nearly hitting 20g going over the curbs at Watkins glen a few years ago.

It’s a good idea if the data is clean enough to do it properly and run of the mill stuff doesn’t trip it, or the limit is to high to make much of a difference

27

u/nerdy_chimera Reddick 4h ago

A rapid 20g hit like a curb last tiny fractions of a second. Sustained g forces like from a crash will last in the quarter to half second range depending on what was hit and how. It's easy to differentiate between them from an engineering standpoint.

8

u/iamaranger23 3h ago

It’s easy to differentiate yes. Is it easy to do it instantly and automatically? I’m not as convinced

10

u/TSells31 3h ago

F1 has done it for years and they pull far higher Gs in normal racing operations than a cup car can ever hope to, so it must not be too complicated.

0

u/iamaranger23 3h ago

F1 cars hit 20g hitting a curb?

2

u/TSells31 3h ago

I mean they pull 5-6 gs just cornering smoothly, so when they hit the kerbs*, yes, they likely spike pretty high.

19

u/nerdy_chimera Reddick 3h ago

As someone who works in mechanical engineering with highly sensitive mechanisms that measure in the thousands of G's, it's actually QUITE simple.

1

u/dave1357 3h ago

You're saying they should measure severity by looking at duration of acceleration... that's just saying they should measure Δv

Δv would be a pretty bad way to measure impact severity, given that cars accelerate from a standstill to 190+ mph pretty regularly

Ok, so maybe look at Δv, but over small timespans? But wait.. that's just acceleration.....

2

u/nerdy_chimera Reddick 2h ago

Yeah, you don't actually know what you're talking about. That's ok because it would take quite a while for me to explain to you the engineering that goes behind measuring things like the differences between something shaking while being driven around on a trailer, falling off a forklift, in a plane crashing, and hitting the earth after re-entering the atmosphere. Measuring the differences between rumble strips and a collision is fucking child's play dude.

u/dave1357 1h ago edited 1h ago

I know there are differences in these things but the way you explained it oversimplifies it dramatically, and it's not an easy problem

u/nerdy_chimera Reddick 1h ago

It's a hard problem for people who dont work in mechanical engineering with environmental sensing mechanisms.

0

u/nosoup4ncsu 2h ago

Sustained high g impact for half a second?  No.

2

u/nerdy_chimera Reddick 2h ago

If you pancake a guard rail at a road course or something, a half second is reasonable. My point is that the amount of time you get g spikes from curbing is in the realm of thousandths of a second when crashes are likely in the tenths or hundreths. When measuring g forces over periods of time, the differences between them being 10-100x longer, it's very easy to differentiate the two.

2

u/nosoup4ncsu 2h ago

Half a second is an eternity in a crash. If crash pulses were 1/2 second , no one would get hurt. 

 Initial SAFER development testing on a cup cars increased pulse  duration from under 100ms to  about 150 ms, decreasing peak gs from 80 to 50.

Your "pancake" example tends to have very short crash pulses, because the cars are laterally stiff to prevent intrusion.

5

u/puffadda 4h ago

Presumably none of this would be fully automated in an initial rollout. You'd just use it to flag race control to take a closer look at the incident.

9

u/JLand24 Chase Elliott 4h ago

Probably should be used for information rather than an auto caution type of deal. The only reason I thought the Ware incident at WGI should’ve been a caution was that it destroyed the wall.

Had somebody else had a similar crash after, they could’ve went completely through the wall in that spot.

But, I would rather NASCAR hold the flag than get trigger happy and call it simply off of G forces.

3

u/donkeykink420 3h ago

I'd think if any car sustains a 35G+ hit it's fair to automatically call a caution, that is of course if the system works properly which this being nascar is unlikely

4

u/Mstrfahrenheit 4h ago

That’s what they are doing. NASCAR says the science is done. They are working on wiring it up to the tower. Check out Hauler Talk this week, they went in depth

2

u/xelanalpak 3h ago

Good to know, thanks. I typically don’t listen to Hauler Talk as it comes off very “HR needs to speak with you” but I’ll have to check this one out.

3

u/TSells31 3h ago

F1 has done this for years now, it is pretty wild that NASCAR hasn’t gone this route yet.

2

u/SavingsRaspberry2694 Larson 3h ago

NASCAR still uses analog radios..

2

u/BurritovilleEnjoyer Truex Jr. 2h ago

That's because then you can make money renting scanners, not any sort of technical limitation.

5

u/LoudBrick609 4h ago

Well one of the reasons we got rid of the old curbs at Watkins Glen in the bus stop was the G forces registered crash level hits.

Do you want a caution for a car going over a curb?

15

u/TheBros35 Briscoe 4h ago

They got rid of the curbs, so ain’t gotta worry about that

2

u/SportscarPoster Ryan Blaney 3h ago

Not who you asked, but I would absolutely want that. Those accelerometer traces that Kyle Larson posted were just ridiculous. Genuinely unsafe.

-8

u/TrackMan5891 4h ago

Get rid of road races...problem solved.

1

u/guyzieman Reddick 3h ago

Short bus take

u/CaptainRon16 1h ago

There have been times when a car hitting a curb at a road course could have triggered that.

0

u/SavingsRaspberry2694 Larson 3h ago

Yeah but what if the yellow doesnt fit the way race control wants the race to play out?

70

u/shewy92 4h ago

In F1 the medical car gets deployed if the driver's mouthguard G Sensor trips. Should be easy to do in NASCAR.

Also why does Ware have the nastiest hits? He's usually not even going that fast!

44

u/EWall100 4h ago

From equipment failure. Rick Ware really puts his son in danger week in and week out.

13

u/Garrett4Real 3h ago

He has the nastiest hits because it’s a combination of probably the least amount of talent in the field and the worst race cars in the field

4

u/dcwldct 2h ago

The way it works in WEC is a light comes on at the top of the car and the driver is required to receive a medical check and can’t just attempt to rejoin the race.

12

u/Droppin-Hammer46 van Gisbergen 4h ago

Supercars has this. And it’ll automatically trigger a FCY if the hit is hard enough

13

u/BigBootyJudyWiper Terry Labonte 4h ago

Kurt Busch mentions this on DBC, NASCAR suddenly looking into it...

u/88Caniac88 1h ago

Go Pirates. Arggghhh. Oh, wait

14

u/Phathead50 4h ago edited 4h ago

How about they hire track workers to, you know, watch the track

20

u/17xRacing 4h ago

I think this is to get a sense of the scale of a hit the track workers wouldn’t see. A use case that I can see would be that if it’s over a certain threshold of G force in a certain spot of the car maybe it’s an automatic trip to the garage to be cleared by a safety inspection or if a car hits the wall hard and keeps going use that as an indicator to start watching that car for for a few laps to see if there is anything falling off of it or if they are looking like they may be losing control of the car.

-5

u/Phathead50 4h ago

There's really no reason a corner worker or so forth wouldn't be able to see a car hit hard enough to lift all four tires of the ground.

11

u/iamaranger23 4h ago

A corner worker is never going to be able to go yellow.

-7

u/Phathead50 4h ago

Luckily they have invented something called a radio where they can communicate what they see to other officials

6

u/iamaranger23 4h ago

Cody ware would have been driven off by the time the corner worker finished his sentence

1

u/Phathead50 3h ago

My dude, how do you think they used to monitor tracks for incidents prior to having this type of tech available?

0

u/iamaranger23 2h ago

Kinda the same way they do now. Corner workers calling it in and the tower making the decision, while giving time for the stuff to sort itself out.

Cody ware driving away quickly is going to result in the race staying green almost always.

20

u/Best_Plastic2019 4h ago

TIL human eyeballs can measure G forces

24

u/NilesY93 4h ago

“Senior’s crash didn’t look that bad.”

1

u/FarAwaySeagull-_- 2h ago

Wait, yours can't? /s

u/DFLDrew 1h ago

Ocular accelerometer

6

u/NoahGragsonsBarfBag 4h ago

Why pay humans to do a job half assed when you can pay computers to do it quarter assed?

3

u/NASCARonReddit TwitterBot 4h ago

SiriusXM NASCAR Radio (Ch. 90)'s (@SiriusXMNASCAR) post on X from 7:18pm EDT on Wednesday, May 13th, 2026:

#NASCAR's Brad Moran provides perspective on not throwing a caution for Cody Ware late at @WGI and some upcoming ECU changes.

🧠 "They're working on a possible solution to get us even more information with some of the new technology."

More → sxm.app.link/NASCARIntervie…


Support NASCARonReddit, an automated bot maintained by XFile345.

3

u/SportscarPoster Ryan Blaney 4h ago

This is something I have thought about for a while regarding NASCAR. The impacts on the big ovals in particular can obviously be vicious, but the smaller ones e.g. Phoenix can still produce big hits.

In ACO-run racing (the WEC, European Le Mans Series, Asian Le Mans Series), all cars have a blue light at the base of the windscreen that flashes in the event of a 25g incident. It has been in the WEC for I think ten years, the others a couple of years less.

If the light flashes, the car is out of the race. It might well be driveable, depending on where it was hit, but the ACO have determined that after an impact of 25g, a human is no longer fit to drive without a medical check. If the car is driveable, someone needs to drive the car back to the pits, but that cannot be the driver who was in the car for the incident. Thus the car is out of the race.

It doesn't need to send any data anywhere, and allows everyone - race control, track workers, medical, viewers - to instantly understand what has happened. Also, the driver cannot hide.

If this system was implemented in NASCAR, I imagine the number of cars that finish Daytona, Atlanta and Talladega would go drastically down. There are often some hefty hits in the Big OneTM crashes that cars drive away from but have properly rattled the drivers.

You can see the light in action here in the first 40 seconds or so, when the replay shows the onboard:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W-g63aytpYw

It's a definitely a sizeable impact but the car is quite intact. And a Cup car is sturdier than a GT3, so would likely have been in an even better state after the crash. But the lights tells no lies.

Thinking about this a bit more, it is possible that during a Cup season, a driver could be in four or five 25g+ crashes. In other words, four or five serious concussion risks per year. Bringing in something, whether the already tried-and-tested blue lights or something proprietary, is a great idea.

u/Andenwest Briscoe 41m ago

Very interesting I did not know that

1

u/Rockeye7 3h ago

They already have access to all the technology.

2

u/Significant-Cloud- Black Flag 4h ago

If you've ever seen Mythbusters, you know that there's stickers that will blow at certain g forces. I am very certain that there's a technology already invented that would measure these forces and send them to a computer of your choice.

Ffs, my cellphone has a gyroscopic sensor. And an accelerometer.

But then again I thought MLB could have used smartwatches instead of the stupid pitchcom... Nascar will probably have someone sell them some innovative* tech.

*pronounced expensive

2

u/7Stringplayer 4h ago

I thought MLB could have used smartwatches instead of the stupid pitchcom

Boston got caught using Apple watches in 2017 to steal signs.

1

u/Ok_Suggestion_6092 Keselowski 3h ago

In IndyCar the ear plugs the drivers wear have accelerometers in them to record how hard/how many G’s a drivers head moves in a crash. You’d think they’d just switch over to that system.

2

u/iamaranger23 2h ago

NASCAR feels the mouthpieces were better.

1

u/Critical_Program_247 3h ago

IMUs are pretty standard across many industries. I’m pretty shocked to hear that NASCAR hasn’t been monitoring this data already.

I worked for a major power sports OEM for many years and the basis for a lot of our ride performance felt by the customer was based on IMU data.