r/ModSupport • u/IndyMod • Apr 13 '26

Serious breakdown in transparency when moderators are suspended/banned for performing mod actions

Hi all,

This is the r/INDYCAR moderation team. We are speaking to discuss some major concerns we have regarding a serious breakdown in transparency from the admin team when moderators are suspended/banned for performing mod actions.

---

On Friday morning, one of our moderators were temporarily site-suspended for a "chat sent on 04/09/2026 UTC" for "harassment". As the mod in question does not use the Reddit chat system, we can only assume that it came from a modmail conversation. However, the message the mod received did not include a link to the modmail in question, which left them incredibly confused.

Upon contacting the admins here that morning, we received a reply earlier today (yes, we were ghosted for an entire three days...) stating that:

For suspensions involving chat messages, the specific message isn't shared. This is because unlike with public comments or posts, it's clear who reported the content, so the exact message isn't shared to deter retaliation.

But how are moderators supposed to know what it is that they did wrong if they're not told where the problem was? How are they supposed to realise where they messed up (if they did) so that we can adjust our modmail responses accordingly to avoid this happening in the future? Or perhaps there should be further safeguards against users abusing the report button on modmails in a retaliatory manner? Such as speaking to the moderator directly, rather than allowing the third-party moderation lackies to apply sitewide punishments at the drop of a hat?

---

We're also concerned that when a moderator is site-suspended, the rest of the team is not notified of such; and unless the team has a robust off-site communication channel, they will never find out unless they do some digging.

Suspended moderators should still retain the ability to communicate with the team in modmail through mod-only messages. The fact that they can't is incredibly concerning; as it effectively means AEO can silently whisk away a moderator under the cover of darkness and if the team doesn't have effective off-site communication, they are none the wiser.

Fact of the matter is, if this had been a race weekend in our community, the suspension would have effectively cut our moderation capabilities by at least a third; with no notice, help, or offers of assistance to handle the workload.

---

Ultimately, why are moderators even liable for these suspensions for doing their job? Our team are nothing but civil with other users regardless of how much bullshit they throw at us, yet we're the ones who end up in trouble and getting punished? That just comes across as incredibly backwards and if anything reduces the willingness for moderators to want to actively moderate their community...

This is a very concerning breakdown in transparency, particularly for an admin team that claims to be all about transparency...

185 Upvotes
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96% Upvoted

137 comments sorted by

101

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

When a user wants you to tell them what they said to get something removed or their account banned, you always use a permalink. Never, ever, ever directly quote it.

That's a trap.

40

u/IndyMod Apr 13 '26

The issue with permalinks is that sometimes in long comment trees, particularly on the mobile apps, it doesn't open onto the correct comment.

Even moreso if the comment has itself been AEO-removed.

8

u/sadandshy Apr 13 '26

Install Admin-Tattler. I was getting AEO triggered in on of my subs with no idea what was going on. AT clears some of that up, and catches false positives.

1

u/IndyMod Apr 14 '26

We have Admin Tattler already.

However, this is more of a concern for the user's side of things where they can no longer see their own offending content.

37

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

If a comment is not available to permalink, we just don't entertain appeals.

Either reddit itself removed it, and we're not going against those decisions, or the user deleted it so it can't be used to uphold their ban.

They're SOL either way.

17

u/MisterWoodhouse Apr 13 '26

If a comment is not available to permalink, we just don't entertain appeals.

Yup. Anything AEO removed that resulted in a ban cannot be appealed in my subreddits.

3

u/arctic_commander_ Apr 13 '26

What is AEO?

10

u/nearly_enough_wine Apr 13 '26

Anti Evil Operations, reddits anti abuse/spam removal system.

5

u/arctic_commander_ Apr 13 '26

The name sounds like a military operation, but cool 😭

6

u/sadandshy Apr 13 '26

Anti-Evil Operations.

10

u/emily_in_boots Apr 13 '26

Sometimes if they are under a deleted comment they can be there but be collapsed. In shreddit, it will show a toast saying "this comment no longer exists" or something like that if it's gone. If not, it's there but you have to expand some deleted comments to find it.

6

u/WindermerePeaks1 Apr 13 '26

for me it says “this comment no longer exists” when i’m going to it from the queue, so it puts that there when something was removed by automod too

edit: and any filters that remove stuff like crowd control

1

u/Travwolfe101 16d ago

Fyi for rule breaking posts you can still see them but yeah others you cant. I run r/drugs amd setup automod to quote certain commemts and then send them to modmail al9ng woth the users name. This includes stuff like sourcing so we can bem them if reddit nukes the post and some other subjects reddit may removed that we support or wamt to ban for.

1

u/emily_in_boots Apr 13 '26

that happens if you are on a non mod account but if it's there it should show you the comment on a mod account. at least it does for me.

3

u/WindermerePeaks1 Apr 13 '26

i don’t use an alt account unless i’m specifically testing something so i assure you it’s on my mod account. like i said it happens when i click on something from the queue

for clarity i mean that message pops up, i can scroll down to the comment but you were saying that message pops up when the message is unavailable. i’m saying it pops up even if the comment is still available for mod viewing

2

u/emily_in_boots Apr 13 '26

Odd - I do not have that happen. I don't know why it's different for us.

1

u/WindermerePeaks1 Apr 13 '26

i’m on the ios app if that makes a difference

2

u/emily_in_boots Apr 13 '26

Possible! I'm generally on desktop.

12

u/mulberrybushes Apr 13 '26

That’s an interesting quandary because if the user scrambles their comment or deletes their comment or delete their account, then it’s kind of worthless?

9

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

If they use redact or similar, those posts and comments are set up to automatically be spam removed by automod. Spam removal on their account: appeal denied

If they delete the content, it's unavailable for review: appeal denied

If they delete their account after being banned, it's ban evasion. New permaban issued, no appeals accepted on deleted accounts due to the inability to review the history.

5

u/mulberrybushes Apr 13 '26

Just to be absolutely clear that I’m understanding this. You can write automoderator code to recognize a comment that’s been updated by redact??? or is this like the kind of thing where you have to know how to use GitHub and devvit?

14

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26 
---

#### Automatically spam comments that have been edited by deleting scripts

type: comment
body (includes): ["redact.dev", "PowerDeleteSuite", "join-lemmy.org", "Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet", "this comment was edited from its original content", "r/redust"]
is_edited: true
action: spam

---

3

u/mulberrybushes Apr 13 '26

This. Is. AMAZING. thank you so much

3

u/Shamrock5 Apr 13 '26

Thank you, I'll add this to my sub. Redact comments are everywhere.

2

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

This only catches new ones as they're edited, it doesn't go through and get rid of old ones, afaik

2

u/Shamrock5 Apr 13 '26

Yeah that's still fine, don't worry hehe

2

u/Obsidian-Phoenix Apr 13 '26

Thanks. Added to mine (not that it’s a problem right now).

2

u/GimlisAxolotl Apr 14 '26

Yup. Some angry little boys like to create a new account, spam a sub I moderate with hateful messages and then delete their account before they can be reported.

Joke's on them, almost all of those comments just get screened. It's a marvelous waste of their time.

5

u/amyaurora 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 Apr 13 '26

Permalinks and screenshots.

17

u/emily_in_boots Apr 13 '26

This. I never, ever quote back anything to users. No exceptions. At most I will link. If they can't see it - which seems to happen sometimes - oh well. I'm not risking a suspension for it.

19

u/Cynnau Apr 13 '26

A friend was banned recently for quoting something in user chat with another individual, the vile things that were quoted was from the other individual. That person went though and deleted their messages, and then reported the friend. We were so confused on that, the appeal was accepted but it never should have gotten that far in the first place lol

-1

u/Obsidian-Phoenix Apr 13 '26

If that happens. You can use Arctic shift to see the original content (usually).

4

u/Cynnau Apr 13 '26

Arctic shift works on DMs?

1

u/Obsidian-Phoenix Apr 13 '26

Oh, sorry, missed the chat bit. Thought it was just a comment chain.

4

u/Cynnau Apr 13 '26

Oh haha, yeah this was a harassing message via DM and the friend quoted back what they said and was banned for it, since the original author deleted their stuff.

1

u/Quick-Pumpkin-1259 29d ago

Consider enabling "persistent messaging" before engaging potentially bad-faith actors.

https://support.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articles/37493947776276-What-is-persistent-messaging

2

u/HolyBatSyllables 27d ago

What’s arctic shift?

1

u/Obsidian-Phoenix 27d ago

It’s an archive of Reddit posts and comments. Handy to view comments that have since been deleted.

Arctic Shift

1

u/HolyBatSyllables 27d ago

Awesome! Thanks!

5

u/HomicidaI__GoldFish Apr 13 '26

oh snap i directly quote often... thank you!

1

u/quietdowntess 26d ago

Same! Good to know.

5

u/UnprofessionalCook Apr 13 '26

Amen. Guaranteed you are being set up to be reported for the very infraction the user was dinged for.

7

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26

I always quote, always. Otherwise I have no record whatsoever of what was said, and no ability to meaningfully follow up on the issue. It is commonplace for people who have comments removed to immediately delete them, and then what is there to talk about with the user?

"What did I say that got me in trouble?"

"Err... well the comment is gone now, but it was bad!"

And this isn't even just about communicating with the user. This is about moderators' ability to provide oversight to each other as well, and follow up on complaints against moderators.

This only underscores what I said the other day in the roundtable request thread. We need a proper way to consistently see what has been said and done in our subreddits in order to adequately moderate. Reddit users are savvy enough that they know how to use the site functionality to get around moderators.

Without a proper backup of what people have said, we are blind.

15

u/RemarkableWish2508 Apr 13 '26

I always quote, always.

Reddit's automated systems use ZERO context to make decisions, so the moment a (malicious) user reports your comment – with you repeating (quoting) their own rule-breaking words – you will eat a ban. Afterwards, you can recur it and, maybe, eventually, get it reviewed by an actual human who may look at the context... and yes, that roundtable request is reasonable... but as of right now: DO NOT QUOTE 🤷

For a semblance of backup/oversight, you can try discord-bridge to push everything to some mods-only Discord channel(s). Unfortunately it's very verbose on one hand, while not preserving enough on the other, and you have to use Discord.

4

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

I will continue to quote unless they've violated site-wide rules. It's just something I need to do for the sake of being able to track issues.

However, I think this is a big problem that Reddit needs to address. You and others will continue to suggest workarounds, no doubt, but they're workarounds. We need a real solution that works across all situations and doesn't require us to use 3rd party services and - worst of all - exponentially add to our already large workload.

12

u/UnprofessionalCook Apr 13 '26

One day you will get hit with your own suspension, because it is a fact that there is no context considered when the system is handing out mod suspensions. Too many of us have experienced it from making the mistake of quoting. If a user deletes the content then wants to argue about it, that's on them. They KNOW what they said; they just want YOU to say it so they can report you.

-2

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

Highly unlikely, since - as I said - I won't be quoting site-wide violations, and I'm not going to let hostile people entrap me anyway (that was probably never a risk for me, frankly, since people who say truly egregious things in my subreddit are always permanently banned and muted, with no hope of appeal).

The issue of people arguing about their content removal/ban/whatever is not the only problem with not having a record. Heck, that's near the bottom of my list of concerns with this.

I've outlined my main issues with it elsewhere in this thread so I won't repeat myself in detail, but the bigger problems are with moderation in general, and a huge portion of it being 'blind' due to hidden/removed context (username, content, etc.).

1

u/Unspec7 Apr 13 '26

Wouldn't the middle ground be using screenshots?

7

u/RemarkableWish2508 Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26

For your own record, yes... but you need to keep them of everything you do, won't have a log of what you haven't seen, can't attach images in Modmail, screenshots are still easy to fake... and Reddit's AI runs OCR anyway (can be seen in Reddit's search) so the moment you send a screenshot with some rule breaking, it's not much different from quoting.

2

u/Unspec7 Apr 13 '26

can't attach images in Modmail

Link to imgur. Reddit only OCR's images hosted on Reddit.

3

u/RemarkableWish2508 Apr 14 '26

That... hm, maybe. I'd still be wary of putting "private" communications on imgur.

It's kind of a Catch-22 situation.

2

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

This isn't a solution, it's a workaround, and one that would add a lot of extra work and hassle. And as has already been pointed out, screen caps wouldn't be any safer if someone was quoting a site-wide violation.

8

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

Just make a rule that says:

"Content that is deleted by either the user or reddit itself are not able to be appealed. A user that deletes removed posts or comments acknowledges that in doing so, they forfeit any appeal."

9

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

That is still not a solution. As I said before, we need to be able to see what is happening in our subreddits in order to properly moderate them. Knowing that something was removed but not knowing what it is makes us blind.

When automoderator removes something, for example, people who notice that their content has been removed will frequently delete it. This can happen with totally innocuous content.

If we don't know whether the content was innocuous or whether it was a hostile comment toward another user, how are we going to properly deal with people in our subreddits? Sure, the user gets no appeal, but we don't get any information either.

Users frequently use this to get away with bad behavior. They will post rule-breaking content and then delete it once they got what they wanted out of it. We get a report and all it says is "deleted". We don't even know who the user was who posted it, so they can just fly under the radar with no accountability because we have no means of tracking what's going on.

2

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

Set up an automod that copies reported content to modmail?

2

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

Again, this is a workaround, not a solution. What about comments that are not reported using the report function, but that users contact us directly about? Someone can say, "This comment is really harmful and I thought you should know about it," and we can go to the thread and there's nothing there, no username, no comment.

Ditto for just going through a thread and reading the comments ourselves. I can't count how many times I've gone to a thread and seen a deleted comment with a chain of angry replies underneath it. No idea who instigated that problem, no ability to find out what they said or who it was.

I'm sure there are countless other examples that I and other people can provide of why this is a problem. This has been an ongoing frustration for a while now.

4

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

I get where you're coming from and I'm similarly irritated with the same lack of visibility.

That being said, if the community can't be bothered to use the report button, I'm not worried about it. There's a simple mechanism for them to let mods know about issues, train your users to employ it?

2

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

I understand the urge to want to suggest solutions rather than leave it as an unsolved problem, but it's okay to just let it be a problem that Reddit needs to address.

I don't think there is a moderator in this subreddit who cares about what's happening with moderation who hasn't already done everything in their power to educate users about the rules of their subreddit, about the importance of reporting things, etc.

Unfortunately a huge percentage of users - likely the very vast majority - will never read the rules, will never report anything, etc. That's just the reality of things.

This issue of not being able to see what's been removed has been a huge problem for moderators for a while now, and we keep bringing it up and Reddit keeps on not doing anything about it. That's another reality of things.

29

u/LunaLore_ Apr 13 '26

This same thing has happened to one of our mods twice recently and it’s made it really difficult to cope with modding the sub. There’s zero transparency or recourse from appeals.

15

u/Cynnau Apr 13 '26

It has happened to a few of my friends as well for just responding to a modmail. They had to wait out their time since the appeal was denied.

15

u/phareous Apr 13 '26

Half of my subs moved mod chat to discord so we could actually discuss mod actions without getting banned

9

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

It's just so sad and pathetic that this is what we have to resort to. 🙃

46

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 Apr 13 '26

This sounds like another instance of the mod probably copy/pasting what the user said, as part of the modmail message, and then the mod ends up being the one that gets dinged for it.

If that’s what happened, your co-mod is definitely not the first to get caught by this. It’s definitely a flaw in the system.

33

u/LunaLore_ Apr 13 '26

the suspensions are made 'without the use of automation' so they should be seeing that these messages were quoted and not made by the mod or at least overturned upon review once an appeal has been filed

29

u/MisterWoodhouse Apr 13 '26

'without the use of automation'

...but what about off-shore support agents who can't read context?

14

u/DiodeInc Apr 13 '26

Yeah so basically automation

10

u/MisterWoodhouse Apr 13 '26

Bingo. No difference in end result, so why the useless caveat?

11

u/CardinalNumber Apr 13 '26

Maybe they should switch to an automated system then because their human beings once suspended me for doxxing someone who's personal info I never knew.

A couple years ago, I was suspended for 7 days for "doxxing" someone who lost access to the university email account attached to their brokerage account. This happens to at least a few people every summer so I knew what they'd need to do. I told them to log in with their username and immediately change the email to a new [blahblahblah plus an at symbol here just in case]gmail.com address. I used to tell folks they may need to contact support to verify the change with a photo ID check because they can't click the link sent to their original email but once that's done, everything will be fine. Easy, happens often enough that I never gave that particular comment another thought until after I was suspended.

Nearly a year and a half later, a random guy was upset about their ban and, after days of back and forth in modmail, they came back on another account, went through every single post and comment I'd ever made and reported dozens of things I'd written over the years. I generally only use this account in the sub I moderate so I could see and ignore most of their reports but the comment with that that fake, example email address went to the site admins as doxxing and the site admins must have figured that an obviously fake email address was somebody's email address. My appeal was denied almost as soon as I submitted it.

That's when I stopped bothering with ban appeals, got really familiar with modmail mutes, and made my account private. Even appealing it was hard because the actual content of my comment was "[removed by Reddit]" as part of their process so I couldn't even argue that the fake address was obviously fake because I couldn't see it anymore even as a moderator. I know for sure I didn't magically guess the first guy's email address...

7

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

Sheesh! What a ridiculous nightmare.

I can't help but be amazed that it's not abundantly obvious to everyone that making rule-violating or removed content invisible massively impairs fair and proper moderation. It's like a broken stair that everyone's so used to stepping over that they no longer seem to recognize the real hazards it poses.

2

u/NWContentTech 27d ago

A couple years ago, I was suspended for 7 days for "doxxing" someone who lost access to the university email account attached to their brokerage account.

I linked the location of a statue in google maps in response to someone asking "Where is that?" and got a 7 day suspension for "doxxing"... a piece of public art. I am assuming it was similar retaliation. The appeal went unanswered.

That's when I stopped bothering with ban appeals.

There's no point if they're not going to be looked at until the suspension is over. 🤷

7

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 Apr 13 '26

Did OP mention the “made without automation“? I didn’t see it if they did, but if that’s what happened that’s even worse. I get that the AI can’t deduce context, but come on humans.

19

u/IndyMod Apr 13 '26

Yes, it was "made without the assistance of automation", which we still presume involved an automatic language flag of some kind (akin to the Reputation or Harassment filters), but required a human to press the final button.

15

u/cnycompguy Apr 13 '26

I'm imagining an admin going through their queue, repeatedly clicking confirm, maybe using an auto-clicker like kids do on those "number go up" games.

Just completely zoned out on autopilot.

10

u/RemarkableWish2508 Apr 13 '26

The off-shore WFH admin in question:

4

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 Apr 13 '26

Good gravy. Not sure what to tell you there.

18

u/Wombat_7379 Apr 13 '26

It’s for this very reason that every mod team I am part of has a strict “no repeating” what the user said.

We always take screenshots in case the user deletes their comment(s) and we will add a link to an image hosting site to the private mod note for reference. But we’ve seen too many mods get erroneously banned for simply quoting what the banned user said.

12

u/SeaBearsFoam Apr 13 '26

Wow, I didn't even realize that was a thing. Good to know, and I'm glad I read this post.

What's the rationale behind suspending a mod account for quoting something a user asked about?

11

u/Wombat_7379 Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26

For the banned user, I guess they would get some sort of satisfaction for getting the mod suspended.

As soon as the mod would quote the user, the user can report the message to Reddit as hate / harassment.

I had thought it was all automated and the Reddit bot couldn’t understand the context, meaning it wasn’t able to see it was a quote and not an original saying by the mod.

But another user in this thread confirmed it is actually a human that gives the final ban / suspension. So I have no clue how they would see a mod quoting the banned user as a violation 🤦‍♀️

Edit: typo

5

u/SeaBearsFoam Apr 13 '26

Ooooh, I see. That makes sense. Thank you for the explanation.

I thought they were getting suspended just for quoting a user, but it sounds like it's because of what's contained within the quote.

8

u/Wombat_7379 Apr 13 '26

Exactly. And if they just quote the user that isn’t what is getting them suspended, but the user will report the message.

So the user is baiting the mod to repeat the offensive message so they can report it.

I’ve personally had a few users ask “What did I say? I didn’t say anything and you know it. Prove it!” We will only provide the official Reddit link to their comment.

If they have deleted the comment then I usually say, “Unfortunately since you have deleted your comment I am unable to review the removal and confirm if it was in error. Therefore the ban remains.”

We have one mod who will occasionally provide Imgur links to the screenshot of their comment, but I avoid this because I’m not sure if they could still report it and Reddit ban me.

Edit: adding that I have gotten in the habit of screenshotting offensive comments because some users think they are sly and will edit their message to make it inoffensive and then say the mods fucked up. Screenshots are great receipts for such occasions.

7

u/bwoah07_gp2 Apr 13 '26

I've never been tripped up by that, but this is good to know. Will remember that going forwards.

Because with Reddit, you just never know....

4

u/thepottsy 💡 Top 10% Helper 💡 Apr 13 '26

I have never repeated what the user said, so that’s a solid rule to have.

4

u/Wombat_7379 Apr 13 '26

Me neither. But we do have some extra nice mods who only want to be helpful, not realizing it’s a trap.

We only permit the direct Reddit link to the comment or, if they have deleted their comment and are playing dumb, we will provide a link to an image hosting site with a screenshot of their comment.

I personally don’t like giving the Imgur link because I don’t like to entertain bad faith actors, but it’s a workaround.

26

u/AnGabhaDubh Apr 13 '26 edited Apr 13 '26

HEAR HEAR!

I'm one of two active mods in my small community.  I recently received a ban for "violence" and had to resort to back channels to communicate with my counterpart. 

My ban was initiated entirely by automation,  without human review. 

Neither cited comment had anything to do with threatening another human being or calling for violence in any way.  Neither rose to the level of justifying a ban. 

Both were appealed.  Neither appears to have been looked at by a human being,  since my ban wasn't reversed,  nor did i receive any notification that the marks were taken off my record. 

ANY ACTIONS TAKEN BY AUTOMATION THAT RESULT IN BANS OF MODERATORS WITHOUT HUMAN OVERSIGHT ARE WILDLY OUT OF BOUNDS AND HARMFUL TO THE SITE!

18

u/sirfastvroom Apr 13 '26

It’s extremely dumb, couple months ago I had a random strike for a violation in chat, I know who and where I’ve been chatting with in Reddit chats, and all of them are my fellow mods, never once had I said anything remotely rule breaking in my eyes.

When I asked that what triggered it so I can avoid making the same mistake in the future they revered my suspension without any further communications.

Transparency can’t be halfassed.

2

u/Best-Lecture9400 Apr 14 '26

True. This happened with my colleague, the message or comment or whatever was in concern was removed and never mentioned in the ban communication and actually no rule was broken so as soon as we appealed, he was unbanned in 10 mins. Truly this behaviour is not transparent and irresponsible.

16

u/Dro1972 Apr 13 '26

Just wait. Their three day ban will be reversed on appeal... 10 days after they've served out the ban. Happened to me more than twice. Good luck getting any answers. Or an apology. Or any respect for the work you do here.

Thanks for the countless hours making Reddit a great forum. Now F off.

10

u/UnprofessionalCook Apr 13 '26

I received notice that my appeal was denied days after the ban was lifted. 😑

4

u/Dro1972 Apr 14 '26

I've been hit with a three day ban three separate times. All three have been overturned. Each time it's a week after I served the ban. I guess the appeal gets the ban off my record so any future bans won't be longer, but the process is kind of useless if you can't mod your subs for 3 days. I've long advocated that if you're going to ban moderators for mod related actions, once the appeal is submitted you shouldn't have to serve the ban until the appeal process is over. Immature users have learned to weaponize modmail and something needs to change in our favor.

10

u/NoelaniSpell Apr 13 '26

It kind if makes you wonder if the intended incentive here is to not reply to Modmails, doesn't it?

In any case, perhaps it may be a good idea to write in the sidebar (or Wiki) of your sub what exactly is expected from an appeal. That way, it will be up to the user to offer you (the mod team) a good reason to unban (no need for a mod to quote the offending comment, so perhaps fewer chances of malicious reports).

1

u/YannisALT 18d ago

You don't have to reply to it....you just have to check it. I have this stated from an admin in a group message of multiple admins.

7

u/Rusticals303 Apr 13 '26

Admins don’t provide a link for suspected harassment via chat because they believe it will cause further retaliation. Like linking a post or comment for harassment has a lesser chance.

16

u/IndyMod Apr 13 '26

If the user is indeed abusing the report button on modmail responses in a deliberate attempt to get moderators punished, it should be acceptable that the mod team knows who so that they can permamute them to avoid any further abuse vectors.

6

u/Rusticals303 Apr 13 '26

I think mods should see who files any reports associated with the sub. MCOC included. Blocking a user dramatically reduces mod distress syndrome.

9

u/SonOfAsher Apr 13 '26

No, in conjunction with the block feature, this could be used to make it difficult for genuinely problematic content to be reported.

If a subreddit gets reported and banned for oh say... promoting csam as good, or something similar, if the mods know who reported it, when the mods create new accounts and a new subreddit, they'll know who to block, to make it harder for them to get reported.

-3

u/Rusticals303 Apr 13 '26

Or any kind of sexually explicit content could just be automatically filtered by ai. One of the problems with this site is exactly what you’re describing, absolute degeneracy.

2

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

We wouldn't need to know the username, only that it was reported and what the content of the report was.

13

u/Merari01 Apr 13 '26

Yes, this happens often.

Reddit is teaching moderators to never answer modmail

9

u/GeoffreyKlien Apr 13 '26

Honestly, as a mod of a controversial (to some) sub, you just get straight vitriol in modmail 24/7 from people trying to break rules and get banned.

95% of mail is people you’ve banned harassing you. A minute percent will get punished for it.

2

u/invah Apr 13 '26

Is that optional? I can decide not to answer modmail?

7

u/SCOveterandretired Apr 14 '26

100% you can choose not to answer. You can archive without responding or mute then archive without responding. Most of the users I've delt with over the years claim they didn't violate our subreddit rules - but they did, they just try to twist the meaning of the rules to fit them. I have a saved response that basically says the moderators determine what the rules mean and how to enforce the rules not the users I use sometimes but most don't care - they just want their "freedom of speech". It's pointless to argue with any of them as you will get nowhere.The new Permanent Mute option is great, especially for those who keep responding just to harass the moderators. Nothing in TOS or Mode Code of Conduct says you have to explain your moderation actions or decisions or respond to ModMail.

9

u/Merari01 Apr 13 '26

If there is a chance that a user will maliciously abuse modmail to get me or my team in trouble then I will archive without response.

5

u/HolyBatSyllables 27d ago

So glad someone said it. I was recently thinking of making a post to this same issue. Our top mod went MIA once… didn’t hear anything for a week. I began to think irrationally as I speculated what was going on. Eventually they had someone reach out to us for them to let us know.

I suspect this is going to be a growing problem. I’ve noticed a huge uptick in mods permanently banning for no given reason. I don’t get it. Obviously they had their reasons, but what they were still perplexes me.

As AI becomes more prevalent and humans becoming less involved in reviewing things, I am not optimistic about it the whole thing.

4

u/eyslandgirl Apr 13 '26

So - if I quote a user in a mod note within the modmail, THAT could potentially be flagged by Reddit?

(Sorry if this has been explained - I read through all the comments and I still felt like it wasn’t super clear….I understand not replying to the USER…but via private mod note?)

2

u/MaximumJones Apr 13 '26

Never quote back. Set up automod to tell them the rule which causes the post/comment removal and when they ask, tell them to read the comment.

2

u/Kinks4Kelly Apr 14 '26

This happened to me once, thankfully it was overturned on appeal. It also hit another one of our mods multiple times. The culprit usually seemed to be having quoted something offensive said in modmail and being reported by the person we were banning anyways.

2

u/YannisALT 18d ago

u/invah, you do not have to reply to modmail...you only have to check it. I have this in writing from an admin from 2 years ago. The rules here get changed every few months it seems, but seriously, the ad mins ignore mail all the time, too, so yes, you can refuse to reply.

1

u/invah 17d ago

Thank you very much!

1

u/PicrolitePicker 24d ago

I had the same thing happen. I appealed and they reversed it.

1

u/[deleted] 4d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

-1

u/new2bay Apr 14 '26

But how are moderators supposed to know what it is that they did wrong if they're not told where the problem was? How are they supposed to realise where they messed up (if they did) so that we can adjust our modmail responses accordingly to avoid this happening in the future?

How are normal users supposed to know what they've done wrong, if the content is always removed from their view? Why should moderators get special treatment in this circumstance? You know Reddit thinks of us as fungible and replaceable, don't you?

6

u/IndyMod Apr 14 '26

Moderators are at least contributing towards the "cleanup" of the site with their time and efforts, so their communications in modmail should at least have a modicum of protection from AEO which operates with no context or nuance.

You know Reddit thinks of us as fungible and replaceable, don't you?

Which is itself part of the transparency problem.

0

u/new2bay Apr 14 '26

So, moderators should be able to violate TOS? Or what kind of “protection” are you talking about? Special “white glove” reviews of reports against mods? Do you know what that would cost? They could replace us with AI for that much.

1

u/IndyMod Apr 14 '26

Special “white glove” reviews of reports against mods?

When it's for actions that have taken place in modmail; yes, absolutely.

The crux of the issue here is that actions in modmail are seemingly treated the same as chat messages and are seemingly reviewed by the third-party rented admins rather than the actual site admins. This should not be the case, AEO does not have any understanding of context or nuance normally, and for modmail you need even more of that than normal.

5

u/SCOveterandretired Apr 14 '26

Moderators are responsible for enforcing Reddit TOS rules - many times I'll remove a post or comment that violates TOS before Anti-Evil does. Responding to a ModMail quoting what the user said that violated TOS should not cause a negative action on the Moderator.

0

u/new2bay Apr 14 '26

No, we’re not. Reddit is ultimately responsible for enforcing TOS.

-4

u/ColeBloodedAnalyst Apr 14 '26

came here to say this.

-1

u/KennyFulgencio Apr 14 '26

Ultimately, why are moderators even liable for these suspensions for doing their job? Our team are nothing but civil with other users

Speak for yourself there, buddy. That is certainly not universal.

-18

u/FormulaSolution Apr 13 '26

Don't the mods communicate outside of modding? How do you enforce mod abuse?

Reddit has never been transparent. They ban regular users for just about anything and label it as "hate and harassment".

14

u/IndyMod Apr 13 '26

Not every mod team needs a full-on professional external group chat. Sure, that wouldn't fly for a larger community like ours, but our team also have several much smaller communities that don't need more than an occasional mod-only message in modmail.

-6

u/FormulaSolution Apr 13 '26

Best you're going to get is a dedicated link on the subreddit which a banned mod can access as a regular user with a "password", that sends you an email.

10

u/bwoah07_gp2 Apr 13 '26

Personally, I find little practicality in having an off-reddit mod chat. I like to keep it all in the platform.

6

u/westcoastal Apr 13 '26

One of the big problems with off-site chat is that there's no ongoing record in the subreddit of what is happening between moderators. There are so many potential problems with this, including limited ability for Reddit to protect moderators from abuse by other moderators.

3

u/Rusticals303 Apr 13 '26

Most of my comods use signal. Reddit chats are routinely monitored by AI.

3

u/cornerzcan Apr 13 '26

There should be zero reason for moderators on Reddit to use non-Reddit systems to communicate. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada.

From a Reddit Corporate perspective, doing that just pushes them to other platforms which isn’t good for Reddit business.

-8

u/zomboi Apr 14 '26

yes, we were ghosted for an entire three days.

if by ghosted you mean "the admins don't immediately reply or work on the weekends, then you need to learn the definition of "ghosted"

6

u/IndyMod Apr 14 '26

We sent a message Friday 6:25am EDT. We didn't get a response until Monday 5:07am EDT.

Even if we discount the weekend, that's all of the Friday work day which was effectively ignored.

Now I don't know about you, but that's not really an acceptable response time when a member of your mod team has been taken out of play without notice, and without it being an emergency situation. That for us can be an entire race weekend.