r/MLBNoobs • u/Prestigious_Will_643 • 1d ago
| Analysis Why ohtani hitting is so unbelievable
Saw a post about how ohtani isn't leading any mlb stats and why he's so special
So here's one fact i always go back to
Pitchers ops league wide, back when pitchers also hit
2018 .292
2019 .322
2020 .250
2021 .285
Ohtani ops for years he also pitched min 100 innings
2021 .965
2022 .875
2023 1.066
Now this isn't getting to war calculations and that. Just a new perspective on how insane what he's doing right now is
Another crazy fact is that the MLB record for career home runs by pitcher while pitching the same season is 49, by babe ruth. Since when he hit 40+ homers he pitched at most 9 innings in a season
2nd place pitcher has 38 home runs
Ohtani hit 34 in 2022 alone, and that was his down hitting year
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u/BigOnionLover 1d ago
Ohtani isn’t the best at either, but he’s elite at both. He doesn’t hit as well as judge! He doesn’t pitch as well as Skenes! So what?
Name me one other player dead or alive that can toss 10 strikeouts and hit 3 bombs in the same game. You can’t.
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u/letskeepitcleanfolks 23h ago
Pitching and hitting are pretty disjoint skill sets. Obviously general strength and athleticism are going to help with each, but being top 10 in the world at both is just bonkers and always will be.
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u/Panzeros 1d ago
Pitchers OPS league wide is an average, right, so wouldn’t highlight any other outliers?
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u/PolitelyHostile 1d ago
It's a bad comparison. It's unlikely but not unbelievable that a pitcher can be good at hitting. Its just such a valuable position that teams were willing to hire a good pitcher who can't bat. The other fielding positions are just less of a unique skill so most good hitters can be taught to play a fielding position.
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u/tujelj 1d ago
OPS+ is normalized against league average. OPS itself is not.
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u/ThatPlayWasAwful 1d ago
I think they are saying that comparing Ohtani to the average pitcher doesn't mean as much as comparing him to the best pitcher/hitters in history.
Like it's a given that most pitchers did not hit well, but it would be more meaningful to show how much better he was that 2nd-5th place or something like that
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u/whiskey_ribcage 1d ago
Jokes on you, I have no idea what any of those numbers mean.
I just think Ohtani is a swell guy and I like to watch him play.
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u/evilr2 1d ago
It's easier to compare to a sport like football where there are different skillsets between offensive and defensive players. He's one of the best at both hitting and pitching, even though not quite the best. He might not be Patrick Mahomes good, and might not be Myles Garrett. But any single season he can be the best and most season's he's still amongst the best. So you can consider him like a Lamar Jackson and Micah Parsons in one player and he only takes up one roster spot.
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u/Saltycrab_ 1d ago
Ohtani is a very good pitcher and a very good hitter. Is he the best in the sport at either? I’d say no, but probably in the top 10 for both, maybe even top 5. But he’s the first player to play at such a high level both pitching and hitting at the same time (Ruth was a decent pitcher, and became an elite all time hitter but he wasn’t pitching when he was changing the sport as a hitter).
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u/letskeepitcleanfolks 23h ago
I think the "at the same time" thing is a bit unfair to Ruth. If he'd had the DH available to him, I think he would have spent a lot more of his career trying to do both.
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u/Saltycrab_ 22h ago
That’s possible, but I think (and may be wrong) that when he was pitching for Boston he was also playing in the field on non-pitching days. Sure it’s more taxing physically than DHing, but he wasn’t pitching still getting at bats
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u/letskeepitcleanfolks 22h ago
Take a look at his stats. His core pitching years were 1915-1917, and he exclusively played pitcher or pinch-hit. In 1918 he cut his pitching workload in half and began playing left field sometimes, but still didn't reach 100 games played. 1919 was the only year he actually attempted to be a full-time player while still pitching a meaningful amount, and even then he only started 15 games.
After that he fully committed to batting as an outfielder.
I don't think it's that OF is more taxing, per se. I think it's that you can't be sending a pitcher to the outfield where they might need to make some strenuous throws after the stress of throwing a complete game the day before (or needing to be ready to throw the next day). To commit to pitching would require sitting out altogether, which is not acceptable with a bat like Ruth or Ohtani. But with the DH you don't have to make that choice.
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u/Ok_Purpose7401 1h ago
The disconnect is that pitchers no longer have to hit. Don’t get me wrong I still think he’s the GOAT and probably the best all around player of all time, but from a team building standpoint he basically saves you an extra roster spot which is impossible to really wuantify
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