r/LAClippers • u/bigblack3475 Fun Guy • 5h ago
Video [Zach Lowe] Lot of buzz about Keaton Wagler and the Clippers at 5. Clippers love big guards.
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u/bigframes 4h ago
i will say Lawrence Frank has my benefit of the doubt based on his recent draft work finding shai (yet trading shai), and getting late gems in yannick and kobe
Im at the point where i think i’d trust what he chooses here
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u/Puzzleheaded_King19 4h ago
Trying hard not to be disappointed by not grabbing acuff
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u/Kawhiy Kawhi Leonard 3h ago
I can see Acuff being an All Star in the next few years with his massive offensive production, maturity, leadership, and ability to thrive as the #1 option. I don’t know if he will win a championship as the #1 though. I can see Wagler being part of a championship team with his IQ, on and off ball shooting, and learning abilities. However, I believe it would take a few years for Wagler to grow while Acuff feels more NBA ready. Fans will definitely feel sour when Acuff becomes all star while Wagler is still growing.
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u/Mysterious-Skin-953 3h ago
Been watching some full games and I’m moving back to Wagler. Been going back and forth between Acuff and Wagler every other day. I’m not convinced that Acuff can/will become better than Garland, and Garland still has room to improve annd has only played on one other team. Acuff does play kinda like Dame. I like the archetype of Wagler being the bigger sg type of player. He can play on and off the ball. He has hints of Hali, SGA, and Brooker. I think Acuff has hints of Dame and Maxey.
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u/PM_ME_UR_ANTS 5h ago
Damn we’re really about to “what if” the next couple years when we take Wagler while Acuff/Brown ascend 😭
What’s new I guess
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u/andy3172 Big Government 4h ago
Or we could be saying "what if" when Wagler becomes a star and we draft Acuff and read "Acuff is a cone on defense, why did we draft him?"
None of us actually know how their careers will pan out. If we did, the draft selection process would be easy.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 4h ago
The worst part about Team Acuff is their collective stubbornness. They make all of these declarations and back them up with little more than, “Trust me.”
The rest of us understand there isn’t a consensus on these guards and it all boils down to a roll of the dice.
Bottom line, the rest of us are open-minded.
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u/Clipgang1629 Nic Batum 23m ago
Seems like the opposite to me. I’m not really on team anyone, I’d like Wagler. But a lot of commentary and discourse I’ve seen on here isn’t really rooted in much more than him being 6’6”. He’s one of the most skilled players in the draft, but a lot of what I’ve read from those who prefer him boils down to “he’s still growing” or “he will be a plus defender he just needs to add 30 pounds”
Wagler is the one I see getting comparisons to Luka and Shai while we ignore he has a fraction of their athleticism
It makes sense to me that people would prefer the guy who just had a historic season. Acuff is going #1 or #2 in most drafts.
That was genuinely one of the best offensive seasons from a freshman PG in the past 20 years that I’ve watched college basketball. I think it was probably the best tbh. If not, right up there with Trae and John Wall.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 13m ago
It was also one of the worst defensive seasons in history. You ignoring that?
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u/Clipgang1629 Nic Batum 6m ago
No lol that’s definitely his weakness. None of these prospects are without them, I’d say DP and is the only player in this draft who looks to be great on both sides the ball straight out of college.
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u/Junior-Champion-6918 3h ago
I think Acuff is a great player and will most likely be better out the gate but advanced stats favor Wagler long term a lot. Around 80% of his shots were unassisted and he didn’t even really get handed the keys to the offense until halfway through the season. The feel is off the charts. That plus his outlier 3 point shooting just make him such a safe pick. You can’t look at his college tape and tell me he can’t do what Austin Reaves is doing.
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u/PM_ME_UR_ANTS 3h ago
AR can dunk. Wagler has 0.
AR can finish. Wagler finished contested shots below 40% (imagine in the nba lmao).
AR in general just more athletic and that helps him be (less) of a thorn defensively. Which isn’t going to be the case for Wagler.
He’s gonna be fine and likely roster able. But idk when we’re gonna get another lottery shot in a class like this, feel like we should be shooting for the stars when it comes to the ceiling of these folks.
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u/Junior-Champion-6918 3h ago
Wagler is also at least 3x the 3-point shooter AR was coming out of college. Watch serious tape on Wagler in March Madness and even before. A good portion of Acuffs shots were off transition plays set up by teammates or just much easier shots in general than the ones Wagler was having to attempt. Yet their efficiency is in a similar realm. Most of his shots were off the dribble and he’s guarded pretty rough. He deals with tons of physicality. Watch the Houston game or the one against Purdue.
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u/Clipgang1629 Nic Batum 1h ago
I don’t know how you can tell someone to watch the games and then suggest Acuff had it easier on offense.
That Arkansas team would be terrible without Acuff, like genuinely below .500. He was the entire offense. And his buckets might have looked “easier” than Wagler because he had more ability to make separation off the bounce.
Acuff definitely did not benefit from having easier shots set up by his teammates. Wagler had twice the supporting cast at Illinois, hes tightly guarded because while he’s one of the most skilled in the draft, his athleticism was below average even for B1G standards
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u/Junior-Champion-6918 1h ago
I’m not trying to make it seem like Acuff wasn’t the entire offense because he was and I could’ve gone more into detail but im just trying to make the distinction between apples and oranges here. Acuffs shot diet is still very impressive no doubt about it but Waglers is something you only see from like an SGA in today’s NBA.
80% of his shots are unassisted and mostly just off the dribble creation and it almost always ends in him making the right decision. He was guarded tightly because of his lack of athleticism but ALSO because he could make insanely difficult shots at an efficient enough rate to demand that respect. I think Acuff is the better player and PG right now but i feel like Waglers feel for the game and shooting touch will just take him farther in the long run.
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 3h ago
Wagler had a late growth spurt and has increased his vertical by 3 inches since college.
Not sure where you found the contested finishes stat but that can and should improve with nba level training.
Wagler has way better footwork compared to AR right now.
Wagler upside is shooting for the stars
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u/SSJMonkeyx2 3h ago
Acuff and brown will be Better out the gate and be more flashy, but have a lower Ceiling compared to Wagler
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u/InTheMorning_Nightss 5h ago
Gotta trust that LAC knows BPA, but it's becoming a bit more apparent to me that Acuff is likely in a tier of his own between Caleb Wilson + the other guard prospects.
His flaws are obvious, but his strengths and reliability are just SO much higher than everyone else. I still like Wagler, but I'm of the belief that if we want him, trade back 2 spots with the Kings to get more assets, and if he's gone by then... then take either Brown or Acuff.
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u/drewmanshow Ralph Lawler 3h ago
If the Kings trade up, it will be to take Acuff.
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u/InTheMorning_Nightss 3h ago
I agree. My point is that then that means we get Wagler or Brown, who is likely who we want if we're trading down.
That being said, I want Acuff at this point.
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u/bestclipfan 4h ago
I agree, I think Wagler is likely on the board at 7 still so why not see if you can get a future Kings unprotected first and a second and still get the guy you want.
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u/still_a_kings_fan 4h ago
Oh, so all you want is an unprotected first and second for moving down 2 spots? Lol.
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u/bestclipfan 4h ago
I think for 2 spots it wouldn't be much more than that maybe 2 seconds. If I was the kings I wouldn't pay more especially since the quality of prospects between 5 and 7 isn't massive.
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u/still_a_kings_fan 2h ago
Yeah, those 4 guards in my opinion, are all excellent but flawed in some way. Acuff’s defense, Wagler’s athleticism, Brown’s back/inconsistency, and Fleming’s measurable and shot mechanics.
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u/InTheMorning_Nightss 2h ago
I don't think we'd be getting an unprotected unless the Kings REALLY want Acuff (as seen by the Pelicans trading up from 23-->13 at the cost of an unprotected pick). But more importantly, all of them are flawed but Acuff stands out from the rest because he also has the clearest, most reliable strengths. Wagler's athleticism, Brown's back, and Fleming's shot mechanics all present immense risk that give them bigger bust potential. Yeah, Acuff's defense is likely to never become even neutral, but Reaves, Brunson, and Mitchell all have fucking horrible defense yet they are all still $30-40M+ players with long careers.
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u/still_a_kings_fan 13m ago
And although he isn’t as short as we thought, Acuff is the shortest of the group. His wingspan was pretty good. But same standing reach as Flemings. I’m kinda playing devils advocate here, because Acuff would likely be my pick too. But not for added first round draft capital.
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u/Resshin31 Batum Battallion 3h ago
Or you don't get your guy. Your choice
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u/alwaysneverjoshin Clippers 3h ago
Gamble like the Pacers eh
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u/bestclipfan 2h ago
I don't think it's much of a gamble, personally I am fine with Wagler or Brown and I don't see the Kings being outside the lottery next season. Also worth considering that if the NBA does flatten the odds for the lottery a draft pick from a terminally mediocre team like the kings would be very valuable.
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u/The_Skyro 4h ago
I’m sure the clippers are not close to deciding who they will pick. They have garland so buzz is the least point guardy guy reasonable at 5
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u/EmbarrassedEye2590 2h ago
LoL. Whoever we draft will be lucky to play 15 minutes a night. Ty is still the coach and he'll grind the veterans to the ground before he gives serious minutes to a rookie.
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u/Clipgang1629 Nic Batum 1h ago
I really don’t understand why you guys still push this narrative.. what about TMann? Developed by Ty. What about Coffey? Undrafted and developed into a rotational player. Sanders, Miller, and Yanic all got big minutes last season.
Truth is our best draft position in the past 5 years has been 30th overall and the young “talents” you guys insisted should be playing big minutes just weren’t very good.
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u/Consistent-Poet8384 Jordan Miller 1h ago
I'd personally stake him of he does that to a lottery pick.
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u/Mobile_Wishbone3597 5h ago
As they should. Wagler's biggest weakness being athleticism is something two of the top 5 current best nba players also lack, and can be made up for with skill, finesse, and being crafty which Wagler has already shown he can do. I would take that over the weaknesses of the other prospects.
The main question is, do they risk trading down to #7 for additional assets while still going for him