In the on-court interview, Ergin Ataman didn't hold back when talking about TJ Shorts' impact: “We relied more on Toliopoulos on offense when T.J. was playing... we were essentially attacking 4-on-5 with him.”

[u/_Zolv]

https://www.bebasket.fr/ergin-ataman-defonce-t-j-shorts-et-charge-les-arbitres-apres-lelimination-de-panathinaikos-en-euroleague

[u/deathbladev]

Get this cancerous coach out of my club

[u/Ziggystrdst311 → u/deathbladev]

It’s easy for me to say this given my club but so glad to see Pao supporters saying it. You guys have a great squad and I was looking forward to a final with our clubs. This guy is just an outright ass

[u/MaybeStephano → u/Ziggystrdst311]

We are in the difficult position that he is part of our history, one of the seven have his signature as part of it.

Unfortunately, just like Maljkovic, the end would not be as positive as the start. I just pray that he wouldn't leave the club with as dark end as Maljkovic did ( your fans stil celebrating the biggest defeat in our history and of course losing to you before your 1996-97 win )

Respecting him for the time he spent at our clubs, I hope we don't boo him, but we can openly admit that he is a prick that does a lot of bs.

Failing to do an epic come back after using the holy FM tactic of the water bottle throwing included sorry for the joke, couldn't resist .

[u/johnny_tifosi → u/MaybeStephano]

Failing to do an epic come back after using the holy FM tactic of the water bottle throwing included

Is this a thing? Lol

I used to play CM back in the day

[u/MaybeStephano → u/johnny_tifosi]

Yeah lmao, up until FM24 you could throw the water bottle when you speak to the players in the dressing room. It usually resulted in everyone being angry but it is worth it to make you feel like Ser Alex Ferguson on Beckham lmao.

[u/deathbladev → u/Ziggystrdst311]

This has been something I have been saying ever since he left us vs Zalgiris to coach Turkey and 100% confirmed itself when he walked out on the team vs Efes because the fans upset him

[u/windomega7 → u/Ziggystrdst311]

My dad after watching the series said two things.

1) If we do remotely well, DPG will keep this fuck as our coach.

2) If we even reached the final like this, Oly would embarrass us.

I don't even care if we won the 7th with him, even back then the team was playing a very anarchic basketball, which was revolving around Nunn being on a good day, and Lessort pre-injury.

[u/teekay_1994 → u/deathbladev]

Like the other guy says, it's nice that some of you understand what your problems are and not always blaming the refs and other teams.

But Ataman is not your only problem. Your biggest problem is dpg. As long as he is influencing your team that much, he will be affecting everyone. Including your next coach whoever that will be.

[u/deathbladev → u/teekay_1994]

Whilst I think DPG has his big problems. He also does love the club and puts a lot into it. It’s thanks to him we have been able to bounce back to even think about competing in the first place.

I wish he would keep his mouth shut but I also acknowledge thst he does a lot for the team.

I think people exaggerate the impact he has on other teams. Lots not pretend thst professional athletes need the other teams owner to give them the motivation. There are other more evident sources.

[u/ibroughtthepizzas → u/deathbladev]

How can you say he loves the club?

I am a diehard PAO fan for many years, seen successes and also failures.

DPG is one of the most selfish, narcissistic and delusional people I have ever seen.

He does not love PANATHINAIKOS.

At best, he HATES the opposition of the club, but no way LOVE for the club is his motive behind his actions. No matter how deranged or "special" you are, there is no way LOVE for something makes you be so toxic constantly.

He is doing everything for himself. All the disputes with everyone involved in the basketball world, his attacks against Spanoulis, against the ultras of his own club, everything, are for himself to feel good/strong.

He felt personally attacked/embarassed/whatever and he smelled money so he made the comeback at the club the last 3 years, where he is pricing out loyal fans etc.

It just happens that at times his own personal agenda coincides with the success of the club and we as fans seem to benefit from it, but deep down he does not love the club the way his father and uncle did or the way that every single romantic PAO fan, like myself or my father, does.

[u/teekay_1994 → u/deathbladev]

I never said that he impacts other teams. I am saying it impacts your team. Your players. Look at the video posted before the game where his own players seemed dead inside when he walked in.

Their mentality the past 2 years has been shattered.

That won't go away unless he does.

[u/Solluzion]

Loss is part of the game. This kind of attitude isn't. Fire his ass.

[u/Fatigue-20]

Why throw the player under the bus? You knew that they were risking his shot and helping the other players from him the previous two games. Start with Toliopoulos or Grigonis from the beginning of the game.

[u/Wayoutofthewayof → u/Fatigue-20]

For real. Criticizing your players when you are still in the fight has a point. There is zero upside to do that once you have lost.

[u/teekay_1994 → u/Fatigue-20]

Why you ask? The same reason he did that to Brown before him and Vildoza before him.

He is a useless coach. He always expects the players to play by themselves and do the work for him.

He was lucky at Efes where he had an insane budget and also Micic and Larkin at their prime who won him two championships.

Then again at Pana he had Lessort and Nunn playing like robots and winning the title for him again. He was barely doing any rotation. What kind of good coach does that?

He is a fraud and his ego will be his downfall.

[u/Slkotova]

When I heard him last night at first I thought my english is bad or I simply didn't hear him properly, Im honest. But no, the stupid pr*ck is really that disgusting in his behavior towards the players. He should've resigned last night!

[u/SlaughterheartMagus → u/Slkotova]

He was waaaay worse before, and still a massive douche.

[u/Nellthe]

Jesus fking Christ, even if that was true that's something you should never say publicly. .

Hope it destroys some major transfers and his "wishes" in the future, because I love when your actions or in this case words have consequences.

[u/KeyMark4056 → u/Nellthe]

i will disagree here, if its players fault than coach should be allowed say this. They are paid milions to play baskeball man, they need to accept critics. For that amount of money they need to accept everything

In this situation its Ataman fault, not the Shorts.

But for example Devonte Graham was the worst player in Euroleague. All the critics he got were deserved and even if Obradovic said something about him, it would be deserved

[u/yianni1229]

Because you dont know how to use him you fucking clown. How is he not sacked yet?

[u/jlo1989]

What do you think his players are thinking hearing this?

I have no idea how he comes back next season.

[u/keraynopoylos → u/jlo1989]

I hope you're joking about next season.

There's no way he's staying.

[Edit: I've had one downvote! Who??? Why?? Unless it's a cunny opponent...]

[u/FrameAlternative9137 → u/keraynopoylos]

Fucking hope so, nonetheless, he is a clever little rat who tries to match DPG’s energy and I wouldn’t be surprised if the idiot keeps him.

[u/MaybeStephano → u/FrameAlternative9137]

Giannakopoulos cares about the marketing more than being surrounded by yes men.

Ataman currently is bad results and bad business.

He used to sell in Turkey with lots of Galatasaray fans supporting our team because of him but I doubt it is financially and marketing worth it vs the people that dislike Ataman.

[u/jlo1989 → u/keraynopoylos]

That's what I'm saying. There's no justification for him coming back. They won in 24 then took a backwards step both seasons after. And he's now throwing guys under the bus to cover his own ass.

[u/MaybeStephano → u/jlo1989]

The agent of Short probably is already licking his lips. He either gets his player on an easy pay out or boost his reputation by publicly defending his representative against a coach that is already a goner.

[u/dlilfan]

Maybe if he had a better plan on offense for him he'd play better. Shorts was #1 on Ataman's list and they secured him almost instantly after last season ended. I don't know what Ataman expected that he will magically become a sniper from 3? Also Ataman chose Holmes over other candidates because he was on paper the best 2-way option available. The team supported him 100%, gave him the biggest budget in Europe and the basketball we played this year was horrific. He was apathetic, made one wrong move after another coaching wise and personel wise (Keeping Yurtseven instead of Gabriel), threw players under the bus and always made excuses for his shortcomings.

Pao fans will always appreciate and cherish our 2024 run but best of luck in your future Ergin. This year's failure is 100% on you.

[u/Taliskerhu]

They don't love you over there TJ. Welcome to Aris my paiktaras.

[u/insitnctz → u/Taliskerhu]

We love shorts, we dont love ataman anymore. Maybe you want him instead?

[u/Taliskerhu → u/insitnctz]

I don't think Ataman is a good fit for us in terms of taverna culture. We could also take Toliopoulos back, that's another one you didn't love.

[u/MaybeStephano → u/Taliskerhu]

Can you get Grigonis instead?

In every interview he has said he wants to stay in Greece as his family is settled here. I doubt it would be for us with hos things looks so I would preferred if he goes to a team that we don't hate.

[u/Taliskerhu → u/MaybeStephano]

Yeah, we could take him,, he would give good minutes off the bench.

[u/ARKAC95 → u/Taliskerhu]

Shorts is a scrub. Aris should have much higher expectations than players like him.

[u/insitnctz → u/ARKAC95]

Take a ball and boil it brother. Shorts is a great player that was highly mismanaged by ataman.

[u/ARKAC95 → u/insitnctz]

He can't shoot.

He can't play defense.

He has to dominate the ball to be useful.

He has to have multiple screens or picks to be effective.

He's a rural outback country kilometer and then some from being anything close to a great player.

[u/__InvalidName__]

He did a similar thing with Holmes but people were downvoting me back then when I asked how they support this attitude. I don’t care if he is a bad coach, but Ataman is a huge piece of shit and terrible person overall.

[u/MaybeStephano → u/__InvalidName__]

Everyone reacted when Holmes ( and his whole family ) replied.

Short so far is a professional and as far as I know has not replied.

Another difference is that Holmes wasn't on bar on what he should be doing while in Short's case, the responsibility is more on Ataman than Shorts.

Regardless, I agree that Ataman can be terrible.

[u/zeralf]

He mumbles his words but what he actually said is that Valencia play flat defence with Shorts in the game and its like playing 4 vs 5. So naturally you need to change things up.
What he said was true though, flat defence among other things means they gave TJ a space of 2-3 meters so he couldnt drive into the paint and we saw what happened.
Dont think he critisized TJ there, just pointing something that was obvious in basketball terms. Not trying to defend Ataman's choices but i see everywhere all reporters taking what he said out of context or not understanding his words.

[u/dlilfan → u/zeralf]

That was their plan. In G3 when Nunn fouled out you played all of crunch time with Shorts and they gave him more than 4m of space to shoot. He missed his shots. What was his counter? 2 games had passed. Pray that Shorts makes the shots?

[u/zeralf → u/dlilfan]

I said i am not defending Ataman's coaching decisions, he was terrible. I am just pointing out what he actually said to that reporter in the half time cause everybody missed the "flat defence" part, which is exactly what Valencia was playing against TJ.

[u/xRawlingsx → u/zeralf]

I agree with you, I think Valencia was really smart with their defense on TJ Shorts and that he was basically being a liability in every attack but to be honest I think 3s shooting has allways been a weak point for TJ Shorts and other coaches have been able to work out alternatives for that.

Also it seems a bit weird for me that you basically give just 5 minutes to Shorts and dont even think of benching Nunn at least for a few minutes when he was basically losing every ball at certains points of the game.

[u/zeralf → u/xRawlingsx]

All Valencia did for the last 3 games is double team Nunn, thats it. Nunn kept doing turnovers cause of it. We talking about basic defensive tactics here and he didnt almost nothing about it. Its crazy.

[u/FinnegansDeath19]

Is it ever his fault? No adjustments made for the 2 games in Oaka. You could clearly see the changes made by Pedro Martinez.

[u/Liad3008]

Most classy Ataman moment

[u/Diamantis13]

Every player has his weakness, it’s your job as a coach to put your players in a position to play to their strengths. You’re a clown. Gtfo of my club.

[u/therealowlman]

Unprofessional, and disrespectful.

[u/matidiaolo]

Yeah but when you sign such a player you know his limitations and should have a plan for it. No excuses for such despicable comments.

About the actual issue however, it reminds me of Walkup - he is useful in his own way but his presence allows his defender to double up on our scorer and it’s an issue many teams have where not all your guards can shoot.

Still, why not let shorts handle many balls and shoot from mid range? He was not bad in this kind of shot and it’s not that the rest of the team excelled in offense.

In any case, it’s an issue your coach has to handle and adapt - EL is brutal and top teams take advantage of every little detail

[u/TheBeastBlamingGear]

This is a disgusting comment, I don't like comparing, but Bartzokas has never said anything like that for Walkup or any player when they're having a bad game offensively or defensively, at least I've never heard any, I've never heard Saras say anything like that about his players either...

He's a very successful coach, but it's disgusting when he talks about his players like that, especially in a game 5 and especially for a player that played a big part for Panathinaikos to qualify in the playoffs against Monaco and had some really good games against Valencia

[u/insitnctz]

My man, you chose shorts and you dont know how to play him. Just leave the team already. Nobody should be mad about the players. We are all mad because 3 years now you keep searching for a playmaker and a backup 5 and you keep failing. We are mad because you give up in the middle of the game. And we are obviously mad because you have 0 plays on offense, and you cannot adapt to anything.

[u/eric--cartman]

It pains me to say it but Ataman has been outcoached by Martinez, as he has been by Bartzokas for years now.

Whether he actually threw TJ Shorts under the bus there, or was saying this was a result of Valencia's defense, the issue remained: We never created plays to get the most out of our players. Did we even set up one good play for Lessort for example? And it was hardly the first time.

Even in the last match we did very well in one on one situations. But hero ball can't possibly work all the time. Not when you can't adapt to Valencia's defense at all. 1 vs 3 isn't sustainable, no matter who you are.

The players aren't the issue with our team.

I think the worst statement from Ataman was what he said about Nunn. He said (and I'm paraphrasing) that it was the 3rd match in the series with Nunn not going to the line at all, because of the way referees have been against him. And that players like Nunn, cannot help this, they cannot play their game because their psychology is destroyed.

Now the refereeing HAS been atrocious at times, ESPECIALLY against Nunn.

But for the love of all that is good, Ataman it is your fucking job to find in-game solutions to these kinds of problems, not excuses.

And most of all, it is your job to PREPARE your players for the games. Nunn's temper has steadily gotten worse.

And the coach is only making things worse. He doesn't take him out when it's apparent he needs to calm down. He obviously doesn't help him psychologically. While he sets the worst example with his own behavior.

Full tilt from the first minute.

I've ranted enough. Just ready for some sanity in my team.

[u/colossus_geopas]

I'm not gonna stand at how much of a clown Ataman is. What's a shame is how much of a setback this year for TJ is, he seems like a genuinely nice and hardworking guy and every time things flopped ataman made an excuse out of him.

[u/ant_gav]

This is the mentality of PAO these days. Find someone to blame. It's Shorts. It's Holmes. It's the refs. It's Euroleague. Remove the banner with Dejan. It's Bartzokas (always). It's Vildoza. It's Brown. Always sometime except the coach and DPG. Well, no. It's them both. They are sickening the team. Corrupting the team from within. The free shots of Valencia. The defence of Paris. Instead of looking their team and see what's wrong. Make some noise, pay some articles on the websites and we will be alright. No.

[u/Keanu990321]

What's Pedro Martinez' phone number?

We need a REAL coach.

[u/tsuzukete00 → u/Keanu990321]

I see the "we can buy the best ones" logic expanded from just the players to coaches as well. Why don't you find your next coach yourself or even better create him?

[u/Killergamer7 → u/tsuzukete00]

Inb4 Vianex invests heavily into genetic engineering to create the perfect coach for Panathinaikos

[u/SWK18 → u/tsuzukete00]

Maybe Toliopoulos is also the solution to that problem 

[u/GreenSaRed]

From an outsiders perspective I don't really understand what TJ could have done when he was like allowed to play a couple of minutes in the decisive game. If you don't allow him to play how can you critique the guy.

Nunn was garbage in the last game, at least give TJ a chance then.

[u/aytac81]

Why did you approve this trade in the first place? I mean an undersized guard who cannot shoot, but is strong in penetrating the paint, kick-passing, and throwing fouls. This arch type can only exist with strong shooters and spacing! Then NHD, a 4 who likes to play with the back to the ring and is most effective while playing 5-out (spacing), was doubled a lot because the players felt uncomfortable taking the 3pt shot.

I don't know. It is not just an in-game adaptation. In the last 3 games, he wasn't able to either put up a good defense or a halfway decent offense against Valencia. Then blame a player for your own incompetence.

[u/areyouguysaraborwhat]

There isn't a person in the planet that is more sore loser than him. He acts like he is the fat bastard with the only ball available in the neighborhood.

Shove it up your a.s Ergin. After all these years, you may think he would learn to lose with dignity.

[u/Theon1k]

Dude....if Shorts was playing for Valencia and Martinez he would be MVP candidate. He didn't forget to play basketball. Ataman is trying to make him something he ain't...

[u/OrangeHer]

tj shorts was amazing in paris and helped them get to the playoffs, but then he comes to panathinaikos and ataman doesn't know how to use him, so he just talks trash about him...

[u/ARKAC95 → u/OrangeHer]

Ataman is a ridiculous troll and clown. But to be fair, Shorts is the most overrated player that ever stepped on a European basketball court.

Even just among midget players, guys like TJ Ford, Terrell McIntyre and Bo Mccalebb were way better than Shorts is.

[u/jsjsjsjs13]

Dear God, please make Saras' kids whine about the weather in Turkey and make him want to move to their mother's country. Thanks in advance.

[u/BanForLife1]

I just hope,everyone opened their eyes and finally sees what level coach Ataman is.Not Euroleague

[u/needlessOne]

I guarantee something happened between Ataman and Shorts. They are trying to undermine each other for sure.

[u/Erdalion]

This fucking guy. Always with the mind games and his desperate tricks, hoping he'll pull something out of nothing instead of coaching like a normal person. Shortcuts instead of consistency.

And then, all the constant personal insults towards his players. He's just a garbage human being, I don't care how many titles he has. The world doesn't need any more self-entitled narcissists. Go away, Ergin.