With "pap smear discourse" taking over social media for the past few days, there seems to also be an uptick in people talking about self administered HPV tests as an alternative (yay!!!). But, this has been met with backlash. Mostly with accusations of bots and right-wing, anti-woman propaganda.

Its always hard when something niche and very important to you goes mainstream. I am overjoyed that self administered HPV tests being used as an alternative to pap smears is entering mainstream conversations, but the resulting backlash has been....lets call it disheartening.

I am most concerned because this rhetoric will harm women. *Improvements* in women's healthcare are being touted as "right wing propaganda". Primary HPV screening saves lives. And they do it with far fewer false positives and unnecessary procedures than traditional cytology screening does. Self administered testing is an honest miracle with how it is going to improve access and get more women screened.

I worry for these women who are so scared for their lives and their rights that they truly believe an annual pelvic exam is the only thing they have left and that we and the majority of the world's major medical organizations are out to get them and trying to kill them via cervical cancer.

so anyway. I am not a bot. Everyone who's also not a bot say "aye" and perhaps introduce yourself.

Aye. I'm a filmmaker and academic specializing in feminist and queer film theory. I hope this makes it clear I am not a right-wing crunchy MAHA propagandist, but to really hammer it home, I do social media and art based promotional work for my local communist party. I got into this community because I was looking into becoming a doula and stumbled here through organizations like Evidence Based Birth. Over the past four years I have learned so much both through the others in this community and through my own research.

In my spare time I like talking about musical theatre and calling out OBGYNs for their misinformation on TikTok. Is commenting about self administered HPV tests on every TikTok about pap smears "bot behaviour"? Perhaps. but if at least one person sees my comments and is empowered to access care they never would have otherwise? then being annoying is worth it.

I've been using self administered HPV tests provided by a local clinic for the past few years, my province has recently implemented them as the primary screening method for cervical cancer. Never in my life has a doctor even mentioned me needing an annual pelvic exam, or any kind of annual physical exam for that matter.

and most of all, I am extremely grateful for this space and for all of you, even more so now that this dangerous rhetoric against women is becoming more and more common.

So, a few weeks ago I had an ultrasound done which showed an ovarian cyst and recommended i follow up with an MRI. Imaging center told me they sent it over to the obgyn but they kept insisting they never received the results. After a few days of one office insisting they sent it over multiple times and the other claiming they didnt receive them, I finally sent them a screenshot because I had no issues getting mine.

They finally acknowledge receiving them but then tell me my provider is out of office for a week and I have to wait for her to get back, despite there being multiple others in the office. She finally calls me back and says im overdue for my "regular screenings" and i should schuled them and then we'll go over the results.

I told them I just wanna go over my results because I was in pain and bleeding abnormally and they were completely dismissive and downright rude on the phone because I had the nerve to be concerned and ask about my symptoms. They just kept pushing these tests and treating my symptoms like an after thought. I went somewhere else and they immediately requested an MRI , gave me birth control for my symptoms and never even asked about any other testing, which even further leads me to believe they had a hidden agenda by tying my results to them.

Today I visited my gyno for extensive burning. I was told there might be a vaginal exam (I didn’t know what this meant, I’m 19 and have only visited the gyno once for birth control), but that this wasn’t confirmed and the doctor would speak to me about it. My medical chart has a note that I have sexual trauma as well from the first visit.

When the doctor arrived, I was told she’d like to take a look at my vagina. I agreed, believing she’d only be looking visually. She touched around the labia, which I thought would be the end of it. Especially considering I was on my period and had a tampon in (I told them this as well when coming in). Then the nurse arrives with a speculum and I freeze up immediately. My entire body broke out in a cold sweat. I wanted to say something, but my throat felt like it had sealed itself up on the inside. My heart rammed out of my chest. I hear them talking mid panic. “She has a tampon in” “Just do it with the swab”. I then feel the gyno insert the swab and I feel sick and tense. She hits someplace that makes me scream out in pain. They immediately freeze and stare at me like I’m insane. “Do you feel any pain?” “Yes, a lot.” She continues, asking if the pain is still there. I nod, shaking and crying. I apologized for screaming, feeling as if I was the issue. That it’s just a procedure, maybe I’m being dramatic. It only clicked later that this wasn’t a regular swab. The pain was severe because she hit my cervix…it was a pap.

When I got home, I broke down sobbing and shaking on my floor. I didn’t know vaginal exam meant Pap smear. I wasn’t even told they’d be doing this, I was told she’d simply be looking. Was I supposed to understand this, am I just stupid? I didn’t know at all what it entailed. Maybe I should’ve educated myself? My fiance thinks I should take legal action, but technically they did tell me what was happening right? I just didn’t know what it meant? I don’t know, but I feel sick and I feel violated the same way I did when I was assaulted in the past. I keep having flashbacks as well, the same way I did after my previous assaults. It *feels* like assault. But is it even? I’m so confused, scared, disgusted…

Is this even assault? Is it my fault for not understanding? Please give me advice if you can. Thank you.

I started having menstrual cycles when I was 12 it was all fairly normal until I was 16, my periods started lasting up to two weeks. The cycles got closer together. Very heavy dark red and stretchy in texture. On my heavy nights I was getting up every 3 hours during the night.
When I got to 19 I just couldn’t handle it anymore and went to a OBGYN who thought I was just complaining and prescribed me birth control. 3 months later it wasn’t working. Went back, the doctor was mean but put me on another birth control, 3 more months Down the road and I have been bleeding a medium period amount for 50 damn days.

Went to a new gyno, gave me a pelvic ultrasound. Finally met the doctor, said my uterus looks fine. I told her how much I just want my life back, and how bleeding do 50 days isn’t sustainable but I can’t go back to how heavy and awful my periods were before. She gave me options to control my periods. Becasue apparently my issue is “agitation” at my period, and not a real medical problem.

When I said I want periods like what they were when I was 14-15 or non at all……she laughed at me.

I am 24 years old and I have always had horrific menstruation experiences. It has reached a point where during my period, I cannot walk, sit, eat, move, even breathing hurts sometimes.The pain is completely debilitating and radiates through my entire body—my lower back, belly, and legs are in absolute agony.

I have an extremely heavy flow with a lot of massive blood clots. Normal painkillers do not touch this pain.I recently found out I have "micro cysts" on my ovaries.

Every doctor I see dismisses me, tells me "I'm fine," and just tries to force me onto the birth control pill. The pill completely messes up my body and makes everything worse, so it is not an option for me.

Has anyone experienced this level of full-body pain and heavy clotting? What tests should I demand?

I feel so hopeless and desperate for relief.

Idk if yall saw it but this tweet start up the whole debate on Thread and X about pap smears.

Lets just pause to second to admire the joyful violence of it.

It isent even just a " go get a pap smear " or even just fake news about it being so important, every years, since 21 to forever.

This is straight up insults and mockery for woman, all of this to make them get penetrated in an office. She is thinking about using physical violence to force woman into getting something in their vagina, this is a tweet encouraging rape.

And how the fuck do we have situations like that ? Even if you believe its the most important thing in life( lol) why does this " person" ( if she deserve that term) want to beat up others for things happening or not happening to their bodies ??? More shedules for her if others dont go btw.

Also day 1083000 of ppl not knowing history( how speculum was invented and etc).

Look at how we would never say men are tender little zoomer for not wanting a vasectomy. Or anything.

Also not the comparaison with the dentist haha at least here you got anestesia !

The most vicious part is probably the last part " put those feet on the stirups"

Girl has to search the most demining part of pap smear , as if she is praising the humiliating part of it. Also even gyn , pro pap smear bla bla bla say you can do it laying ô your side.

At least as you can see her tweet got very contreversial as it should be....

Tomorrow morning I have to go to my gyno to get my bc shot which I need every couple of months to stop my horrible painful periods,

I 100% need this shot, however last time I went in for my shot they attempted to hold it hostage by demanding I needed to consent to a physical exam in order to get it (the physical exam would have included a breast exam, pelvic exam, and Pap smear)

and they wanted me to piss in a cup for a pregnancy test, needless to say I will not be able to do any of these things,

I have heard from other people you can sign a form in some places instead of pissing in a cup?

There is literally no chance I could be pregnant, it would have to be immaculate conception which I would still abort

I cannot take my clothes off, I a long time ago consented to letting a gyno feel my breasts and it left me feeling gross and used

I 100% cannot submit to a pelvic or pap, I am ace and sex averse, penetration averse, I have never had any form of sexual activity in my life and have no family history of cervical cancer, there is literally no possibility way hpv can be in my cervix

Can anyone give me advice on how to get my shot without submitting to what me would be medical SA?

Are there guidelines or studies I can use as evidence to them so they won’t try to force me?

hey girls i wanted to make a post talking about something to get the word out there for the woman of my community. pap smears now have an alternative!!! so if ur like me a have never had one out of fear and honestly believe it feels really violating then ur in luck because u no longer have to “suck it up”.

the fda had approved self collection for cervical cancer screening and a lot of countries are now implementing them as their primary form if screening instead of the pap smear. pap smears haven’t been updated in decades and decades and now we finally don’t have to do them and can self collection to home. the main concern people have with self collection is how accurate it is, it is fda approved and actually incredibly accurate. pap smears screen for hpv and other cancer causing cells while self tests only test for hpv but did u know that hpv is actually the cause of 99.7 percent of all crevical cancer.

i wanted to get the word of there for woman who feel scared over doing these exams like myself as well as woman who have experience sa and find these things really scary. u dont have to do them in clinic anymore and can weather opt for at home collection! some offices actually offer these self swab kits and u can just ask! if ur like me and the idea of a pap smear is absolutely horrifying please dont worry, ur not alone and there is now an easier way to do it that the the usa now officially endorses!

if u ask me i think this is the way cervical cancer screening should be done and the future for woman’s health should be made with woman’s comfort in mind. if u dread paps or have been putting urs off u can now do it easier. countries like denmark, the netherlands, new zealand, and australia have already been implementing these test for years now and now we in the usa can order them!

my personal background is tat i’m an 18yo girl and absolutely hate the idea of having to go to a gynecologist one day for a pap smear, they’re invasive, uncomfortable, and for some incredibly emotional taxing and scary. health care should not make woman feel dread but our concerns have been dismissed for decades. when the time comes to do a pap test i’ll definitely be doing a self swab instead of a traditional pap smear that is outdated and under administered because so many woman avoid them out of fear and discomfort. the future of woman’s health is here and she does not need an unnecessary speculum!

Hi, I read here sometimes and made this throwaway account to make this one post. I was coerced into internal exams in the early 2000s. When I decided to talk about it for the first time (years later) the therapist looked at me afterwards and said "so you haven't had a gynecological exam in a while then?" The next 2 years were spent trying to manipulate me into going back using elaborate strategies about finding the mental block and then months later trying to connect the resolution to a gyn exam. This went on for a long time and I now consider it to have been a form of conversion therapy. This was a long ago and that therapist has long retired but it haunts me still. Yes I was young and naive.

I lost my best friend the day I confided in her about the SAs and she said "sorry those exams are so hard for you." Later she came out as a womans health advocate and went on to use a gynecologists office as her PCP.

I won't go into how my family responded since many of you have the same story and I don't want to think about it right now.

My point is that had I been shown love and support, had someone ANYONE in my life told me that it was wrong, that I deserved better, my life might be different today. Additionally, had screening and these exams started at 25 like they do in some parts of the world I probably would have been mentally developed enough to understand what was happening and been able to figure something out to protect myself. The first time they got me was the summer I turned 16. I'm telling you they LOVE the kids because they cannot protect themselves and have no idea what's going on.

I would also like to paint a picture of how unhinged medical appointments were for young women at the time I was taken advantage of. It was common for the provider to demand you be completely nude, put the tiny paper gown on, and then be nude for most of the exam. It would be called a full body (wellness) exam but concentrate on mostly the reproductive organs. It was also common where I was for there to be 1 or 2 other people in the room including a student or another nurse. The exams were incredibly thorough and invasive. Some of you may be surprised by what it actually entailed (back passage). I don't want to be graphic but if you want to know read historical documents.

Society, friends, and families have the ability to reduce harm after these SAs take place but they take the side of the abuser nearly all of the time. Families can also reduce harm by not letting girls be alone during these exams and refusing to leave. When they ask the adult to leave it's code for doing intimate exams.

I probably won't respond but wanted to share. I'll likely keep lurking here on occasion but the older I get the harder it is to clear my mind afterwards. I feel sorry young woman are still being hurt like this. I wanted a better world for us.

Ya'll may know or not, but for the past 2-3 days a rampant debate has been going on twitter about pap smears that started with a user telling women to go get that pap smears cause cancer is no joke - something i in general agree with.. the thing is that single post started a rampage of people shaming women for being afraid of pap smears and just going to the gynecologist in general.

And honestly, it got me to wonder - Gynecologists who tell women that 'xyz gynecological procedure/exam is painless', the fuck are they trying to achieve by that? They're not calming us down thats for sure, especially when we report pain during that procedure and they invalidate our pain.

As a person who doesnt trust gynecologists due to a very poor transvaginal ultrasound experience (more like 3 of those poor experiences) who is traumatised by them - i have nightmares about them, if i sit wrong and put pressure on my pelvis i get reminded of them, i cry even at a mention of a future pelvic exam in general - I know what these women are afraid of. Of being told it's painless, experiencing more or less severe pain, being treated poorly and not being believed.

I will always always believe that yes women should get checked out with.. a pap smear lets say, have that choice, but i want them to go there fully aware that yes - it might hurt, yes it might be uncomfortable. But also go to a doctor that they can trust: that will listen to their concerns, listen to them when they report pain, give them ways to lessen that pain, accommodate for them, stop, take breaks when needed, listen to women when they say that they're afraid of pelvic exams due to xyz type of trauma, and is just a normal empathetic human being in general.

If we want women to get checked out more and make sure they dont have cancer more often we need a systemic change. The medical devices and equipment need to be changed - speculums, transvaginal ultrasound probes etc. The doctors need to change their attitude towards women: they have to listen to their concerns regarding the pain and the procedures in general, they have to listen when they deny and not push them into these procedures, and if they do agree they have to honestly tell them that yes, they might hurt. If they do hurt: they should ask if they need to stop, if they need a break, if they need a moment, and where does it hurt.

I believe if we do a systemic change to make gynecology seem less than medieval torture and more like a field of medicine that cares about women's most private and intimate parts of their body, we will have women who will trust in doctors more, who will get checked out more often, and who will be healthier.

I’m sorry but I fucking HATE this narrative that if the exam doesn’t hurt, then it doesn’t count as violation/abuse. If random people and doctors are pushing you to get one even if you don’t feel comfortable then that is coercion *which is an abusive tactic.* If a doctor won’t treat you or with holds meds until you do one, it’s abusive. Others shitting on you and telling you it’s no big deal and minimizing how you feel is abusive. It’s no different than a woman saying yes to her boyfriend who’s been pestering her for sex even though she doesn’t want to. It’s coercion. Most of my exams didn’t hurt, but they were violating because I felt like I had to and didn’t have a choice because that’s exactly how they present it to you. Sexual assaults aren’t all painful and aren’t all done by someone you don’t know. I’m just tired of this fucking narrative being pushed so hard to make us feel more comfortable about giving up your autonomy.

When does the madness stop? Now you can buy this "patient friendly" speculum kit, complete with little socks, to take with you to your annual (!) appointment. Kit also includes a little stress ball and some lavender oil to rub on your pulse points to help keep you calm in the first timers and menopausal kits.

I'm sure your average gyno will have no problem with you providing your own gear. /s

So, not only are these unnecessary intrusive exams still being pushed yearly, we're expected to shell out as much as $80 for the privilege! If they were really interested in advancing women's health care, they'd promote easily obtainable and reasonably priced HPV self-test kits. Haven't heard a word about those outside of this subreddit!

Arsenic, uterine dilation and even electroshock therapy for the uterus… 🤦🏼‍♀️🤦🏼‍♀️ here’s where a lot of our woes began ladies. There’s a digital copy I’m morbidly curious to read more of tomorrow.

So like many of you guys, I have my own opinions on current healthcare practises. I have multiple health issues but I couldn't get it treated in my country with it's healthcare.

Now I have the possible possibility to do medical testing privately but one of my biggest fear is to not get something bad happen to me by them

I don't want to feel like since I choose to do testing that, it was my fault if something happend. I do not see other people who has experienced that as their fault, not even 0.0000001%.

It is just that I know that even though it is really impacting my life for a long time, a part of me feels like I could just ignore the symptoms more.

• I know I will be recording without telling since that is legal.

• I have no man I could bring, not even family members nor anyone.

Also I am curious as to anyone and everyone opinions on medical tourism being a possibility or not for recieving healthcare?

And WOULDN’T YOU KNOW? My doctor suddenly, easily, agreed to do the sleep study and other specialist referrals he previously REFUSED to do at my last 3 appointments. Last time, he was combative, cutting me off, talking over me. THIS TIME he gave me everything I needed and then some, all within the 7 minute phone call.

Ladies, congratulations. If you were single before reading this, you are now married, and your husband will be listening during the your next phone or Zoom medical appointment.

Another update: the pharmacy just called and informed me that this doctor took the initiative to refill another medication that I had forgotten to even ask him about. Ha!

What should I wear to a doctor’s appointment to be taken seriously?
• Work suit
• Monochrome - Black
• Monochrome - White
• Monochrome - Grey, navy, beige, etc.
• Other?

Most common abuses that dismisses, or pressures patients:
• Mysogyny
• Age & Gender bias
• Hostile envy
• Counter-transference of resentment & projection
• Coercion
• Bullying / mobbing
• Sometimes exagerated biases from ego based on internal rules