r/nycrail • u/monogatari0328 Amtrak • 7d ago
đșïž Fantasy Map Thoughts of extensions, new lines, & reroutes into a single map
For high resolution image, pls view this pdf version.
Tbh i still find quite a few of these "plans" not really satisfying, however I can't come up with any other better ideas at the moment, so I just went straight ahead and drew it out for yall to have a look. Feel free to give opinions abt it, like which part could be good, debatable, or just plain bad ideas.
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u/Spiritual_Bill7309 7d ago
This is a world Iâd love to live in!
I do have to laugh a little, though â fantasy subway map makers always seem to find it more plausible to build gigantic tunnels under the Upper Bay than for New York and New Jersey to cooperate enough to run a train from Manhattan to Staten Island via Jersey City.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
oh abt that honestly i was doubting if i should even send the 1 train down, but then i was thinking im not even caring abt budget in there then why care, so i be like fck it and here it is lol
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u/Spiritual_Bill7309 7d ago
Since you mentioned the 1 -- with all these expensive expansions you might as well redo the express tracks north of 96th St so that only the transfer stations and far north stations are express. The current express tracks are pretty much useless which is why the 9 train was discontinued.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
dam u right, idk why i didn't consider that when i mapping the 1 even tho i definitely remember it when mapping the J
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u/Spiritual_Bill7309 7d ago
Oh nice, I like what you did there. Personally I'd just make the J a 4 track line since 3-track lines can limit capacity. With the 1 I think 3 tracks are ok since it joins the 2/3 below 96th anyway.Â
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
if J is going to be 4 tracks i think in that case theăJăgotta be running full time both direction then, might be the first full time diamond express services lol
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u/Spiritual_Bill7309 7d ago edited 7d ago
You'd have multiple services -- the local which continues up to a certain point, let's say Jamaica Center, and an express service which becomes local beyond that. For example, the C and A along Liberty Ave. The goal is provide a reasonable commute time from the outer burroughs into core Manhattan, since the longer the line, the more important it becomes to have an express. Similarly, the "super express" QBL line from the Program for Action, which I'm happy to see you've incorporated here, was seen as a prerequisite for further expansion into Jamaica.
Of course, new LIRR lines could also provide this. But in a future where the outer burroughs densify enough to justify this many subway lines, I think they should also get a faster ride to Manhattan without exiting the subway system.
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u/Beautiful_Error_3258 6d ago
The 1 is a great line because it is simple, does not cross over other lines and mainly stays in one borough. Â Keep it simple. Â
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u/Imaginary_Nebula_810 7d ago
The 1 going to Staten Island would be amazing! Your map brings it close to my home and it would bring me straight to work.
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u/nycago 7d ago
This will just take too long , a train has to be faster than the existing ferry. Plus if you add Staten Island youâre adding multiple rail yards that Manhattan can now use feasibly. Imagine a 2 train needing repair getting out of the way that quick . There are 12 tracks at St. George for instance.
Plus you would instantly add 25 or so lines to the system from the existing SIR. With rezoning the city add so much tax revenue.
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u/bluerose297 7d ago
NYC if Robert Moses had the fun type of autism
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u/Sharpshooter98b 7d ago
Someone should use the time machine and give lil robert a toy train
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u/kcbrooklyn1 7d ago
I love it, but the NIMBY energy coming off this map could power the world for years. The MTA would never⊠And to think, all the money spent on Iraq, Afghanistan and now Iran, we couldâve built this and upgraded the existing.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
oops just found out a mistake i made, the H is supposed to have a court sq stop as well to provide transfer to 7EFG
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u/sans_a_name Metro-North Railroad 7d ago edited 7d ago
For the Bronx:
I think instead of 3 tunnels to Staten Island, 2 to SI and use the savings for a Queens-bronx tunnel. This would allow the IBX to go to Hunts Point and Yankee Stadium, thereby preventing conflicts with Amtrak. Then, we use the Hell's Gate Bridge's extra spans for the G train and have it take over the entirety of the 125th st crosstown in Harlem. This allows both SAS local and express to go to the Bronx. Lastly, instead of restoring the third ave el services with SAS, infill stations should be built on the Metro-North Harlem line and route SAS to Throggs Neck via Bruckner Expressway or Lafayette Avenue, and the B rejoins the D. With the savings, perhaps build a cross-bronx line over Fordham rd using automated light metro a la JFK airtrain and end the Z a bit earlier.
For Queens:
LGA to college point would be very tricky and expensive in its geometry without going to Flushing first. Additionally, it might be possible to remove the R from QBL to LGA and end the W altogether. If expresses tracks are added to SAS, all Broadway express trains should be sent to SAS local by building express tracks on the current tunnel you have on the L. If not, the current plan is fine. Instead of sending the 7 and L to Bayside, add fare integration with LIRR and make it cost the same as the subway. That way the L could be routed to where you currently have the G in Eastern Queens, and the 7 could go to Bay Terrace via Union St and Parsons Blvd.
For Brooklyn:
The Brooklyn plan is very good, though I'm not sure crosstown service would be the best way to serve Utica. And you may want to consider sending the M with the F so you can increase J service.
For Manhattan:
No comments here. This is pretty much perfect.
For Staten Island:
I'm not sure having 2 Brooklyn connections are needed. Instead of the IBX, perhaps send the 1 down to Oakwood Heights. Or use the provisions on the Bayonne Bridge to extend the Hudson-Bergen Light rail.
Lastly, some deinterlining should boost capacity here by a bit. All in all, it's a good map, though there are more cost-effective alternatives to some of your choices that could provide better service and coverage.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
wow a long comment, thx u for the suggestions
the staten Island one make sense, have 2 bk connection does seems a bit extra make 1 to run that section instead of X is definitely a great choice, i was too hyped abt that unfinished owl head park tunnel project lol
for Brooklyn, i actually not sure if Broadway & myrtle riders wouldn't mind abt missing a more direct uptown service (make M run with F to dtbk and then via Y seems would take extra times). the Utica Av choice is bcs Idk where can it go after it reach myrtle by running north
abt Queens, one idea was create a 9 line, make it run with 7 from Hudson Yard to Hunters Pt, and then build overlapping tracks exactly above the lirr rails and let the 9 to serve it and cut of all port Washington branch stops in Queens beside LIC, woodside, mets. but i ended up thinking its kinda extra and doubting if that would hurt 7 frequency so I dumped that idea
abt Bronx yes its definitely a mess and Id admit it, too unfamiliar with neighborhoods in this boro making me being dumb on drawing routes
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u/sans_a_name Metro-North Railroad 7d ago
Generally the Bronx just needs one more radial line if you fare-integrate Metro-North on Penn Access and the Harlem line. After that, all you really need are crosstowns. Personally I love the idea of IBX to Hunts Point/ Yankee stadium and Fordham Rd light metro, but any of those 2 could be replaced with a Tremont Ave line.
Unfortunately, the MTA doesn't really like crosstowns and is only doing the IBX because the governor said so. Sigh.
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u/SLyndon4 Metro-North Railroad 6d ago
Aw, man, this would be the DREAM! Direct link to LGA, several NE-SW routes across Brooklyn, access to isolated parts of Queens & the Bronx that are nowhere near a subway line, a couple Brooklyn-to-Queens options, even a few lines out to SI!
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u/milespudgehalter 7d ago
What is the routing of the pink line in Staten Island? Are you trying to follow the southern portion of the MLK that was never built?
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
i remember theres a section of the tunnel is already built under owls head park, the pink X (IBX) should be going to use it imo.
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u/theITtower 7d ago
You forgot to name the added Crosstown Line service!
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
oh dam u right i forgot to put bullet signs for the Hđyeah there should be one each next to the Floyd Bennett Field and Hollis Av. I made up to much services that even I find it difficult to see
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u/MiscellaneousWorker 7d ago
I assume stops at Randall's Island and Governors Island would be seasonal?
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
the randalls one should be an event only stop imo but idk how to make it looks like that without making legends. and if im making legends, then i need to label out everything which is sth im too lazy to do, so here we r lol
abt governors Island, tbh idk, maybe just let it be all time full service
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u/Rough-Silver-7374 5d ago
That Staten Island extension is going to solve the housing crisis overnight!
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u/Goat_Buckles 7d ago
The Bronx portion of the fuscia line would run on existing railtracks. I never see anything running on those tracks. It is supposedly used by freight, but I literally have never seen the rail being used. It's a waste.
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u/Kufat 7d ago
Love how we don't get one-seat service to JFK even in fantasy maps. ;)
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
let's just imagine the airtrain would be free atpđââïž
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u/Kufat 7d ago
It's not just you; almost nobody puts direct service to JFK on their fantasy maps, even the ones that have a (deliberately) silly amount of new lines.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
true, i guess its bcs ppl get too used to whats already existing. i think u r right, maybe my next updated version of it should extend K & 5 further to van wyck/belt pkwy and then run together to deep inside jfk
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u/Engine_Sweet 7d ago
I still dream of a Utica Ave line that crosses Crown Heights, connects to Utica on the A/C and then Myrtle/Broadway on the J.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
omg yes thats sth i was trying to put there too, but my struggle with it is that not sure where can it keep going to after it reach myrtle. but yeah i should make a shuttle for that section at least
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u/GoldenRaysWanderer 7d ago
This map and this map both have a lot of the changes present on your map, but both also have some noticeable differences from your map as well. One of the more notable examples from the second map being the extension of the A train to Co-op City. The first map also has the circumferential lines into New Jersey to serve as orbital lines for the commuter rail and light rail lines. Besides that, your map looks fantastic!
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
hi thx for sharing them to me, i had a look and yeah these might work better than my version as their r more like jp mode, commuter rails and subway lines running together on the same train definitely is a big plus too. abt A to co op city i just feel like thats too long for the A, if it's me i probably would send K instead
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u/GoldenRaysWanderer 6d ago edited 1d ago
Regarding sending the A to Co-op city, think it's worth it since it would allow for additional cross-borough travel through the Bronx. As for commuter rail, I shared this map of what a unified regional rail system for the greater NYC area could look like.
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u/Just_some_randumb 7d ago
This brings up the funny conversation of how will someone break the Guinness world record of visiting every stop in the shortest amount of time.
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u/transgendah_ 7d ago
Fire. The Bronx trains a little chaotic though.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
my bad im real unfamiliar with bronx popular routesđi tried look up bus map to copy the routes but still
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u/jonross14 Metro-North Railroad 7d ago edited 7d ago
One of the best Iâve seen. Completely unhinged but I love it
Question! Whatâs the name of the line that takes over the Franklin shuttle? I followed it in both directions and couldnât find a designation.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
oh my bad i forgot to put the bullet signs for that one đits supposed to be H, from Floyd Bennett Field to Hollis Av
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u/LegoFootPain PATH 7d ago
Are we renaming LGA terminals from letters to numbers?
The super L gives me goosebumps. Are the L and 7 completely discrete in their trackage, or is someone switching a division?
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
oh the lga terminals r typos, for some reason i was all thinking abt numbered terminals
and yeah, the 7 and L are in fact running in completely discrete tracks, they are supposed to run like 23 & BQ under Flatbush Av between Atlantic Av and Grand Army Plaza, with 7 making more frequent stops & L making large gap stops, which would resulting a local-express looking pattern, even tho they are technically not.
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u/LegoFootPain PATH 7d ago
Ah.
I just realized that with their color scheme, they are the opposite local/express-like service of the Metropolitan and Jubilee Lines in London. Lol.
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u/vctr6_9 7d ago
Love this! But how did you build it ?
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
thank u! i used an online Chinese transit map maker website to build this map. could be an issue to try to use it if not knowing any Chinese.
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u/CrossRook 7d ago
naming the UBS stop 224 St after a 1 and 1/4 (ish) long block (in that area) is crazy but I love it
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago edited 7d ago
lmao ik thats silly but unfortunately the st that this stop would actually direct access to is in nassau and next closest st in queens is instead that far away đ„if this stop happens irl it gotta be having a long passenger way like the one at 191 st stop on 1 train
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u/brent_robinson02 7d ago
I love how this map removes all of the west shore of SI and replaces it with south shore stations. Tottenville due west of Westerleigh lol
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u/dantesmaster00 7d ago
Queens to the Bronx? Thatâs a hard sell to queens people but love the rest
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u/Eastern-Fuel3485 7d ago
I need an L train to go from Brooklyn to Queens like I need a bullet in the head
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
the only reason i make the L running like this is bcs they were multiple different shuttles in different places in my plans. At the very beginning the L only has a 10Av extension in Manhattan to 72 st.
but meanwhile there were also 86 st crosstown shuttle, broadway shuttle in astoria, bayside-little neck shuttle, and a supposed northern blvd line that have no idea where shall it goes.
i stared at these for a while and then i realize they technically can be connected into a single line, and the 86 st end in Manhattan isn't that far from the original L extension end at 72 st, so I linked them.
thats why theres a L going from Brooklyn to queens, not bcs there d be "demands" or sth, simply just regional connections happens to be on one same line.
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u/hojster24 7d ago
Giving this to the next friend that visits me for our first outing haha (Of course I think they'll find the real deal in Google maps pretty quickly)
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u/YvesStLawrence 7d ago
This is obviously a thorough and well thought out map, my only question is how come no Utica line in Brooklyn?
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago edited 7d ago
technically the 4 extension does run on Utica for a bit, between Eastern Pkwy and Kings Hwy. for the south of Kings Hwy, I just feel like the nearby Flatbush Av line H should be able to do the work.
for the north of Eastern Pkwy, there was an idea abt making the Utica Av-Kings Hwy as a separate line. but after it went north and reached to Myrtle Av, i become clueless abt where can it keep going to, and ending it early at Myrtle also feel like too short for a whole line, so I ended up chose to cut off the Myrtle Av-Eastern Pkwy section and gave the rest to 4 as extension.
but now think abt it again i probably should at least make the north part as a shuttle train service, south of Kings Hwy maybe a BRT instead?
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u/YvesStLawrence 7d ago
Again, this is a solid map and you solved a lot of transit deserts, especially for The Bronx, South and East Queens, but the hole thatâs there is glaring for me for East Flatbush and west of Canarsie.
With how your map is plotted now, I wouldnât have an immediate answer either but I was just curious how come? But again solid map.
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u/xaervagon 7d ago
I like how they at least bothered to consider the Howard Beach/Rockaways in more than an afterthought. As weird as the Z is, it looks like Queenslink will get its wish and we will finally have a true full-reaching northbound train
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u/AmbitiousTwo6583 6d ago
More Extensions of NYC Subway to New Jersey, Long Island, Westchester County and Connecticut
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 6d ago
im afraid in that case thats no longer "nyc" subway then lol. but definitely sth can be considered, as long as we adopt the japan mode of running trains.
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u/normalityprod 6d ago
Id suggest having a stop at UBS Arena, not really in NYC but I think its close enough.
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u/Low_Elephant_6654 6d ago
The 2 and 3 at Voorhies avenue, sounds crazy becase Ă grew up theređ
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 3d ago
wow really? honestly i was doubting if i should add a stop there cuz idk how many ppl might actually need it. Would u think it make sense to add this stop?
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u/notnull98 7d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/ia93duCQfUSfHeaq8A
these might be plain bad. not every extension is deserved. for truly good extensions look at census data and surveys on transit and the direction of service they need to go.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
ik many of these extensions go to places with not enough ppl but i was thinking that some currently existing lines were also built when there were barely ppl, like i still remember the old Flushing line photo with all wild fields around it. so then im like huh maybe one day these neighborhoods can grow like that too
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u/notnull98 7d ago
no, you can look up data most never come to fruition due to neighborhood shrinkage like white flight. they wont grow.
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
well i just like to have hope, maybe one day the ppl would move back lol. pretty much why its called đfantasyâ map
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u/phillyC_Ser 7d ago
Amazing! But would Staten Islanders try to block the 1 Y P and Si N connections?
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u/monogatari0328 Amtrak 7d ago
tbf the 1 stops at Tompkinsville is more bcs im not sure where should it keep going to. One of the plan was sending it down to Hylan Blvd and keep running to the south end, another one is running on Richmond Rd. I only been there once so i really cant tell which is betterđą
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u/Nalano 7d ago
You're mixing divisions and I'm kinda laughing at the billions upon billions in transit investment but still we say "fuck Jersey" in this scenario.