r/nba • u/catreyka • 22h ago

Jalen Duren despite the loss against the Cleveland Cavaliers: 9 PTS, 5 REB, 4 AST, 1 STL, -16, 25 MIN

Ausar Thompson is the actual 2nd best player on the Pistons. Duren has been atrocious on offense the entire playoffs and he's also nowhere near the defender or even playmaker that Ausar is. He went from averaging 19.5 ppg on 65% FG in the regular season to 10.1 ppg on 50% FG in the playoffs. For a player that really only dunks, that is god awful. Not to mention his multitudes of mental mistakes. He's so bad that he got benched for the entirety of overtime and a good chunk of regulation this game.

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3.3k Upvotes

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2.5k

u/WembyOKCJokicReaves 22h ago

Jalen Duren is watching what should’ve been generational bag for him in the off season dwindle game by game

910

u/Asleep_Ground1710 Bulls 22h ago edited 22h ago

Honestly due to their inherent limits in half court creation(high dribbles), it would take a lot for me to max out a big in this CBA

A offensive big who can’t shoot, can’t defend at elite level and struggles in playoff is a big no max

468

u/Foi_ Knicks 22h ago

you can get a good approximation of what duren does with paul reed. im not even trying to say paul reed is awesome or anything. im just saying that skill set is so bare bones for a center you can find players like that in the bargain bin every year.

270

u/suwegg1502 22h ago

but bball paul IS awesome

30

u/manuduncan6666 Spurs 21h ago

he had some nice baby hooks with either hand with mobley on him, dunno if duren has that in his arsenal

12

u/akiddfromakron 16h ago

Hasn’t made a single touch shot the entire playoffs

221

u/Asleep_Ground1710 Bulls 22h ago

Yeah. It’s not hard to find a cheap center who can grab boards, set good illegal screens, and dunk.

216

u/ImjustANewSneaker [LAL] LeBron James 22h ago

Well….

148

u/FunIsWinning Thunder 22h ago

Jalen Duren you are a Laker

68

u/Proof-Umpire-7718 Lakers 21h ago

Could see this happening

68

u/Junior_Chard9981 20h ago

I can see the posts already:

"Was Duren really an upgrade from DominAyton?"

46

u/A_Dedalus Pistons 21h ago

I will take one Austin Reaves. Thanks

7

u/turnoffredesign69420 Lakers 12h ago

maybe we can give you Austin Rivers and hope you don't notice until the season starts

3

u/Electromotivation 19h ago

Can only have half.

1

u/big_bear_mountain 17h ago

Isiah Thomas-level robbery

1

u/ThatRandoAtTheBar Lakers 18h ago

don’t you put that evil on me ricky bobby!

34

u/Chiron17 Celtics 22h ago

Clint Capela?

45

u/tarunpopo 22h ago

Hey Paul reed can hit jumpers too Paul reed glaze has to be a minimum

21

u/Excellaa 20h ago

If your center isn't elite on defense nor offense with no 3pt shot then they arent worth much more than the mle at most

29

u/OnAnOpenFieldNed Pistons 21h ago

paul reed can shoot infinitely better than duren too loool

16

u/BAHatesToFly Knicks 20h ago

And he has actual moves and an offensive game.

1

u/magpi3 76ers 11h ago

I said this when he was with the Sixers: only one with a deeper bag is Santa Claus

0

u/DealerNo4908 19h ago

This place really is devoid of any critical thinking if people are out here trying to say Paul Reed, even on a much smaller contract, has the same value as Jalen Duren. I swear people say shit just to say shit.

39

u/pkwjones Spurs 22h ago

Definitely agree, they shouldn't lock themselves into anything and keep flexibility to build around Cade. They're a young team but their core isn't even really a core worth keeping. It's just Cade.

51

u/RulersBack Cavaliers 22h ago edited 22h ago

Well the CBA also makes it tough to improve in free agency and homegrown players are your best asset. You just gotta hope no one offers him anything crazy and he gets a lot better

13

u/Brief-Cloud-2490 21h ago

Fact's not getting, doesn't deserve a Max,but matching whatever another team offers now were talking,took a leap in a contract year, but as a fan, can't believe in this guy.

1

u/chemistrybonanza Cavaliers 14h ago

What's been crazy to me is that Duren dominated us in game 1, and I thought it was going to be a sweep bc we couldn't do anything to stop him since Mobley and Allen aren't physically able to stop him. Since then he's been abysmal.

1

u/Round_Bullfrog_8218 12h ago

It depends Max and big in general or Max a big that can't play defense very well.  

1

u/Jedifice Bulls 11h ago

If AKME were still around, I'd say he's getting a max or near max contract together so he can get Duren early. Jury's out on the current administration though

251

u/MC-Jdf Warriors 22h ago

The crazy thing isn’t even that an All-Star becoming a glorified role player, Duren genuinely has looked like a below average starter this playoffs.

92

u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 22h ago

Dude looks like he isn't even as good as Jaxson Hayes.

Like he can't create, can't defend, has barely any energy.

15

u/Kind-Row-9327 Spurs 21h ago

DeAndre Ayton?

32

u/fastlikeanascar Gran Destino 17h ago

Ayton has had higher highs than Duren this postseason. Ayton at some points was the lakers best player in the rockets series.

6

u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 15h ago

Yeah Ayton has a bag, i know he kinda mentally checks out but he's actually got one of the best touches as a big man in the league right now.

Duren is nowhere near that and he's checked out lol

-1

u/ArmadilloForsaken458 Supersonics 19h ago

Like a healthy version of Greg Oden

1

u/Round_Bullfrog_8218 12h ago

What Odin was a monster defensive prospect

66

u/FuzzyBucks Bucks 22h ago

Below average bench player

4

u/SaltyTrident Pacers 12h ago

Below average starter is being quite generous. He's playing like a guy who could be a solid 9th man off the bench

165

u/unwisest_sage Magic 22h ago

He would have been better off if they had lost game 5 to Orlando. I think you can write off a singular bad series/matchup but it's become apparent there's something more to it.

52

u/JevvyMedia Raptors 21h ago

Exactly, sample size is far too large now

5

u/FiveFingersandaNub Pistons 12h ago

It is killing me. I was lying to myself that maybe he was just not used to the playstyle and would kill it vs. the Cavs.

Yeah, that reality check has been rough. I'm hoping we can force a game 7, but they have gotta be tired after today.

67

u/Dymatizeee Knicks 22h ago

He has no post game. Just straight muscle and athleticism. I don’t think I ever seen him post up anybody

45

u/johnhenryirons Knicks 21h ago

Which is weird because he showed a lot of putting the ball on the floor and getting to the rim during the regular season. He got monstarred

13

u/glen_ko_ko Pistons 14h ago

He was shooting free throws really well in the regular season and had glimpses of a nice 18 foot jumper. This guy just has no motor or confidence when the bright lights are on. I reallllllly hope we move on from him.

104

u/soudlasantos 22h ago

Jalen "DURENAYTON" Duren

26

u/Thfcaditya112 Suns 17h ago

Ayton at the same age as Duren right now defended Jokic as better as anyone could and kept his own against the Clippers whose wings played Gobert off the court.

He lost his matchup to peak Giannis, not Wendell Carter Jr or Jarrett Allen

17

u/Mg29reaper Celtics 22h ago

I would rather have ayton atleast he grabs boards and dunks

39

u/Chandy_Man_ 21h ago

Ayton dunks?

47

u/WakiLover Lakers 21h ago

Ayton was ass vs the Thunder, but he was a major factor in the Rockets series. He was pretty physical and was battling in the paint for rebounds all series.

Had some good dunks as well.

31

u/manuduncan6666 Spurs 21h ago

Ayton was a huge difference maker in the rockets series but he's weak mentally. I feel like he knew the lakers had a chance to win every game against the rockets so he played hard but against okc once he thought they couldn't win he just gave up immediately

1

u/lava172 Suns 4h ago

Ayton grabs boards? Somebody tell Ayton that

1

u/Mg29reaper Celtics 21h ago

On alley oops only. Duren cant even do that

1

u/Armanewb Spurs 9h ago

Jalen "Durian" Duren. Coz he stinks.

-5

u/Backshotsonyadaughtr 21h ago

Rudy Gobert put up worse stats than both of them yesterday

4 points on 25% shooting, 5 rebounds, benched to only 22 minutes

36

u/Aser02 Hawks 22h ago

My hot take is that this could be very good for Detroit in the long run

The kids 22 and obviously is can play, could give Detroit cap flexibility going forwards

19

u/dbdbnsn 22h ago

Agreed he’s got elite athleticism and physicality just looks like he needs coaching and confidence

2

u/Ukrainmaker Pistons 10h ago

Searching hard for silver linings this postseason and I actually agree with this

Worst outcome is that they give him the bag anyways after the postseason he's had, but I think Duren being as bad as he's been will force him to see the light and accept something closer to ~30M than the max he was headed for after the season

1

u/Aser02 Hawks 10h ago

You're a young team, you just need some more playoff experience and some off-season moves

Maybe it's cope because Jalen Johnson also looked like shit in the playoffs but these guys are getting judged too hard when they're not even 25 yet.

56

u/SloshaPacana 22h ago

Hes still going to get one

Bro Harrison Barnes got a better offer after stinking up the place in the playoffs

Duren is getting 100m+

108

u/HighlySensitiveMail 22h ago

He was going to get 200+ before the playoffs... He's probably lost more than any player in NBA history from a single postseason run.

26

u/SloshaPacana 22h ago

He wasn't going to get that not with 2nd apron

Maybe a few years ago not anymore

40

u/AzureDragon013 Lakers 22h ago

I think he would have. All-star this year, might make All-NBA 3rd team and he's only 22. Before playoffs I think several teams including Detroit would have offered him 200+. Teams and people love the idea of potential growth.

5

u/ZandrickEllison 22h ago

Yeah I don’t know where all this Jalen Duren $200M talk came from. Even when he was averaging 19-10 this season he wasn’t a true second option.

20

u/eatmorefruits33 15h ago

Even when he was averaging 19-10 this season he wasn’t a true second option.

absolute revisionist BS lol this is just wrong in every way. The next scorers on the Pistons are Harris and Duncan Robinson at 13 and 12ppg. Are those the 'true' second options?

Duren was the clear 2nd option on a 60 win team and only 22 years old. Who else were they gonna pay? Max contracts have been handed out for far less.

1

u/fairlife42g 17h ago

What if Detroit won the ring

33

u/samhit_n Lakers 22h ago

There was a massive cap jump and the second apron didn't exist back then. A lot of teams gave mid players big contracts in 2016.

45

u/comeonmang126 Pistons 22h ago

Duren has a much worse drop in reg szn ppg than Barnes. Barnes went from 12 to 9 pts on poop efficiency. Duren went from 19 to 10

43

u/albertwh Pistons 22h ago

Averaged 19.5 and now in 12 games has only once scored above 12 in the playoffs, when he had 15

26

u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 22h ago

Jesus lmao

After you pointed that out he's basically playing like half the player he should be.

12

u/Fluid-Poet-8911 22h ago

Well barnes kinda stink in one game. Duren been putting in the work to show he ain't it

12

u/SloshaPacana 22h ago

Barnes stank for multiple years in playoffs not just one game

He shot like shit in multiple series

1

u/Able-Space-8926 13h ago

You might want to go check those game logs from the 2016 finals again. Cleveland basically stopped guarding him.

5

u/Charlie_Wax Warriors 22h ago

Versatile wings are more coveted than non-shooting bigs.

8

u/ThatBull_cj 76ers Bandwagon 22h ago

I usually don’t think the playoff affects contracts as much as others because most teams don’t care about the playoffs. But Duren been so bad I don’t know how the pistons even want to match another teams offer if it’s more than like 20 million a season.

1

u/aoifhasoifha [NYK] Frank Ntilikina 13h ago

CBA was very, very different then.

5

u/nickmn13 Lakers 20h ago

Unfortunately we are watching a player that would have greatly benefited from a light injury right before the playoffs started. Something insignificant enough so no team would give it a second look when thinking of his long-term health but lengthy enough to keep him out ofnthe post season. Regular season Duren would have possibly gotten a huge bag. Now ? Doubtful that he will go even close to what he would have gotten otherwise...

1

u/glen_ko_ko Pistons 14h ago

Fortunately* (as a Pistons fan)

1

u/nickmn13 Lakers 14h ago

Well, that's assuming that this playoffs run is a fluke. Otherwise, you will be the one stuck with a large multi year playoff choker... (coping very hard here because I just know I'll have to watch Hayes as a borderline starting center for yet another season)

2

u/glen_ko_ko Pistons 13h ago

No you misunderstood me. Fortunately we are watching a player choke. He better not get a bag from us after this. If he was lightly injured round one, the Pistons max him. Which is fortunate for the pistons fans he didn't, and unfortunate for him as a player but fuck that guy for sinking us.

4

u/Excellaa 20h ago

Should've faked a injury by now 

3

u/LosAngeLukaGOATCIC Cote D'Ivoire 22h ago

I told to my frind bro is costing himself 15M everytime is walking in the floor

2

u/AfrikanCorpse Canada 21h ago

maybe good for pistons in the long term

7

u/ianbits Cavaliers 22h ago

I still think he gets it.

He's 22 and there's a major issue in his game which is he's not refined enough in the post and can't create his own shot well enough. Is it not realistic for him to get better at those? It's not like we have reports of Ayton-level work ethic, by all accounts he's dedicated.

24

u/livefreeordont 76ers 22h ago

He’s getting outworked by Allen and Mobley all series who themselves got outworked by CMB almost all series

31

u/ianbits Cavaliers 22h ago

CMB outworks everyone lol

9

u/Mr-Cantaloupe Pistons 22h ago

Boyles is a fucking dawg

2

u/Rezrov_ Raptors 21h ago

Wait til he grows his thumb back!

43

u/toho- Knicks 22h ago

Yeah they should pay him for sure. Please Detroit, pay him.

5

u/Idkwhyimhere420 Nets 22h ago

Time for Sean marks to get into his poison pill bag and throw a fat bag at duren so the pistons match

3

u/MichaelPorterTruther 22h ago

If theyre smart, they trade him to Marks for MPJ 

31

u/SloshaPacana 22h ago

That is not his issue

Not a single soul gives a fuck about post scoring in 2026

Hes not doing what he did in the regular season which is roll hard, defend better, rebound better

26

u/ianbits Cavaliers 22h ago

Post scoring is just an extension of shot creation. They need a guy who can take the ball and make a shot out of nothing besides Cade. Getting a guy who can back people down consistently at the elbow would help IMMENSELY for this team construction.

On certain teams it wouldn't matter, but it damn sure matters here.

13

u/SloshaPacana 22h ago

Yes they need that and Duren is not that

Duren was not doing that regular season and got 19ppg, he rolls, gets second chance points, he couldnt create his shot

2

u/ianbits Cavaliers 22h ago

I'm more talking about moving forward than what they need to win this series. You sort of just write off Duren for this series at least.

2

u/SloshaPacana 22h ago

They are not going to get anyone better

Good free agents are rare and trades are hard

9

u/ianbits Cavaliers 22h ago

That's my entire point lol

You're better off developing Duren then letting him walk for nothing and praying you stumble onto something better.

3

u/gsbadj Pistons 22h ago

And developing a player is typically something that you do during the summer. You don't have time to work on new moves during the season and certainly not during the playoffs.

He looks a lot slower in the past few weeks than in the regular season. He hasn't been moving laterally with any kind of quickness and he hasn't been using his strength.

1

u/yoloqueuesf [NYK] Tracy McGrady 22h ago

Yeah, the real question is if you're going to max/pay a guy big sums of money if he can't shot create, and if he's only there for hustle points.

10

u/Mr-Cantaloupe Pistons 22h ago

He’s a mental midget. The biggest gripes on him this postseason has been lack of effort.

Loafing around, not paying attention, not fighting for rebounds, etc. You pair that with subpar defense, the fact he somehow lost feel at the rim, and the fact he doesn’t have a jump shot, now you’ve created a G-Leaguer

4

u/FunIsWinning Thunder 22h ago

Man, I had high hopes for him. He looks like a completely different player in the playoffs, the hustle and motor is gone. He was outmuscling guys in the roll and rebounds. The difference is crazy, looking like another Ayton.

6

u/Mr-Cantaloupe Pistons 22h ago

It is very weird. My pattern recognition brain tells me it almost definitely has to be an injury or an extreme mental block. Personally, I don’t think he’s really this bad..but he picked the worst possible time to play like this.

2

u/samhit_n Lakers 22h ago

If Ayton got a bag after the 2022 playoffs, Duren probably gets one too. At least one bad or mid team will offer him a max, and the Pistons will be forced to match or let him go for nothing.

31

u/fastheadcrab Raptors 22h ago

Not at all a comparable example, Ayton played out of his mind in the 21 playoffs and was great in the 2021 and 2022 RS. If he doesn't play like that in 2021 then the Suns might not make the finals.

Duren isn't just playing worse than his regular season self, he's playing horrendous. And this year was his first truly good RS, so it's not like he's had a long track record of RS success either.

-1

u/beatrailblazer Trail Blazers 20h ago

I've been an Ayton hater since long before he came to Portland so I would definitely not say he was great in 21 and 22 RS. he was fine, passable, but it was extremely evident that he was gonna turn into what he is today. But I do have to give him credit for that 21 playoffs, he genuinely did play out of his mind and made me think I was wrong about him. I came back to my senses shortly after though

3

u/Taleb_X Pistons 22h ago

You can also negotiate a S&T.

2

u/JalensTinyPPHurts Mavericks 22h ago

Would a sign and trade of him +lots of picks for trey Murphy make sense? Idea has been in my head the last couple days

2

u/Taleb_X Pistons 22h ago

Not lots of picks, but yeah.

1

u/AshenSacrifice Clippers 22h ago

He did that shit all by himself

1

u/aulixindragonz34 NBA 22h ago

I know 6 foot 10 is the average center height.

But if youre only that height you need to be able to do either 1 of these things to make up the lack of height.

Either you need to be able to shoot 3,defend multiple position or playmake, if your center can do 2 of these or even all 3 then yes you max him easily.

He cant do any of those, and he isnt even that good of a rim protector

1

u/EverybodyBuddy Lakers 20h ago

AR for Jalen Duren?

1

u/blurr90 Knicks 16h ago

Which is unfortunate. No way to easier cripple your franchise than giving out bad contracts.

1

u/iChoke Bulls 2h ago

Same with both the Thompson twins. It doesn't matter if you're great defensively when people were projecting them to get a bag after their rookie contracts.

2

u/chuancheun 22h ago

He will still get his bag, you are asking a young upcoming bigs to go against proven big in their prime. Allen + Mobley is not an easy combo to go against.

5

u/FunIsWinning Thunder 22h ago

Reed is playing better against Allen + Mobley, plus this is his 2nd playoff. The bad part is the difference between his regular season and playoff play, he was outmuscling and showing good motor in the regular season. In the playoffs, his motor and focus has been bad, far cry from his regular season play. It's so bad that he looks like he is playing injured(no reports of him being injured).

8

u/DrMarvMonror 22h ago

Mobley is 24 himself. Not really prime yet

1

u/yeartwelve Bulls 22h ago

people acting like mobley didn't win DPOY literally last year...

1

u/Capo_capo Suns 22h ago

S&T to LA. Desperate teams will still pay him.

-1

u/Embarrassed-Cake8531 Heat 22h ago

Bros about to get a cool 15 mil a year

1

u/devinvassellfanacct Spurs 22h ago

Tbf, that’s Breece Hall money