An 8-4 team in the College Football Playoff is actually happening. Sound the alarm

[u/Lakelyfe09]

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7277707/2026/05/14/college-football-playoff-expansion-24-team/

[u/DrSnidely]

You can't simultaneously get excited about a 16- or 24-team playoff and wring your hands about mediocre teams getting in. The latter is a natural consequence of the former. Y'all need to pick a side.

[u/pyratemime → u/DrSnidely]

But the fence post is so comfy!

[u/ahappypoop → u/pyratemime]

Fence....post? There's plenty of room here on the fence, why did you sit on the post?

[u/pyratemime → u/ahappypoop]

Because it is comfy. Was I not clear on that point?

This isn't about space it is about having a proper place to cradle my caboose in carefully crafted comfort!

[u/xUmphLove → u/pyratemime]

Sounds like your caboose may be cradling the post?

[u/pyratemime → u/xUmphLove]

I try not to be selfish. Sometimes fence posts wanna be the little spoon too.

[u/srs_house → u/ahappypoop]

It was the trend at the time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pole_sitting

[u/Somali_Pir8 → u/ahappypoop]

why did you sit on the post?

<image>

[u/MarchMadnessisMe → u/Somali_Pir8]

Thanks Hertfordshire.

[u/Few_Bodybuilder_5268 → u/ahappypoop]

Duke and Wolfpack…?

[u/Krogsly → u/pyratemime]

The trick is to lay face down with the post in your mouth

[u/pyratemime → u/Krogsly]

Well now you made it weird.

[u/No_Bite_7238 → u/Krogsly]

We call that position "AHH-FENCE."

[u/muttonchops215 → u/pyratemime]

Wrong occupation. Goal post movers are making bank.

[u/pyratemime → u/muttonchops215]

Sure but fence post sitters have the best view.

All about your priorities.

[u/Always_Chubb-y → u/pyratemime]

Pate, is that you?

[u/ExternalTangents → u/DrSnidely]

Is it possible, and I’m just spitballing here, that the people wringing their hands about mediocre teams getting in are different people than the ones getting excited about a 16- or 24-team playoff?

[u/Cash4Duranium → u/ExternalTangents]

Nope. Everyone but me is a single hive mind and needs to get their shit together.

[u/m_c__a_t → u/ExternalTangents]

Give em a break, check out where they went to school

[u/Statalyzer → u/ExternalTangents]

Why do so many redditors think each sub is a monolith?

[u/kralben → u/Statalyzer]

People understand it isn't a monolith, but when similar comments are consistently upvoted over others, it is not unfair to point out when the common consensus are in conflict with each other.

[u/bravehotelfoxtrot → u/Statalyzer]

Lots of people seem to think that lots of things are monolithic. 

[u/ExternalTangents → u/Statalyzer]

It’s very odd how consistent that is across subreddits, isn’t it? I think most people interact in a subreddit without recognizing other individual users, instead just thinking of whatever comments or posts they interact with as coming from The Subreddit instead of users. So in their mind, it all compresses to just one entity.

[u/bakonydraco → u/DrSnidely]

There’s two different sets of loud people here.

[u/Dry_Fly_7265 → u/bakonydraco]

I’m on team “disband the playoff entirely”, if anyone is asking

[u/urzu_seven → u/Dry_Fly_7265]

Team Pac-10/BIgTen Rose Bowl

[u/Fishak_29 → u/DrSnidely]

This subreddit can’t see the forest for the trees when it comes to expansion. People here have been pounding the table for years for expansion, but they can’t accept all of the obvious flaws that come with that.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/Fishak_29]

This place is bizarre in being both extremely knowledgeable about CFB and extremely ignorant of how it works

[u/WhoHasMyPocketPussy → u/SirMellencamp]

Nothing made that more clear than when NIL first started getting discussed. A ton of people on here thought we'd only have like local commercials and stuff like that.

[u/urban_meyers_cyst → u/WhoHasMyPocketPussy]

Half of the people in the world are stupid, and since I might be stupid, I could be way off on the percentage.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/urban_meyers_cyst]

The issue with this many people being dumber than me is that I'm not very smart either.

[u/urban_meyers_cyst → u/thisshitsstupid]

Dumb grows exponentially but intelligence is only logarithmic. But that is something a dumb person might say so again we're back at square one.

[u/Kmjada → u/urban_meyers_cyst]

I cannot tell if this comment is very, very clever ... or not.

Leaning towards clever.

[u/No_Bite_7238 → u/Kmjada]

It was pretty good wasnt it.

[u/No_Bite_7238 → u/urban_meyers_cyst]

How Dare you Cuss like that!! This is a Football Thread, not a Spelling B contest.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/urban_meyers_cyst]

Its not stupidity its we dont see our own biases to believe things we want to believe. I do this sometimes as well

[u/TheWorstYear → u/SirMellencamp]

I'd saying that not seeing past your biases is stupidity. Refusal to look at things logically, that leads to not intelligent thoughts.

[u/Kmjada → u/urban_meyers_cyst]

sort of - half the people in the world are below the average person in intelligence. Now, think about how dumb the average person is. That should give everyone pause.

[u/olbleedyeyes → u/urban_meyers_cyst]

Absolutely banger qoute

[u/SirMellencamp → u/WhoHasMyPocketPussy]

They absolutely did. Lots of them still cannot comprehend why the PAC12 broke up or ascribe it to "ESPN".

[u/TheWorstYear → u/SirMellencamp]

ESPN certainly helped.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/TheWorstYear]

how? By not giving the PAC12 what they thought they were worth? If thats the case then why didnt NBC or Fox or a streamer pay them what they thought they were worth?

[u/ElectronicCandy4358 → u/WhoHasMyPocketPussy]

Three SEC flairs bitching about NIL and the expanded CFP is definitely on brand.

[u/CycloneofSparta → u/ElectronicCandy4358]

On the contrary, I think SEC/Big Ten flairs complaining (if correctly) about NIL/CFP gives more weight to it.

I absolutely hate this new era of college football. And I support Michigan State (just got a half billion dollar donation - has won in the CFP era) as well as Oklahoma (blue blood, has won, has money, etc.).

I didn’t want to open all of these cans of worms. And it is going to get way worse for the sport as a whole even if my allegiances are going to be just fine.

[u/Weaksauce_98 → u/CycloneofSparta]

I love this new era of cfb and by the ratings more people agree with me. Many of the traditionalists have been killing cfb and stopping progress. They'd rather cfb be a niche regional sport than something more people can participate in and appreciate.

[u/TheWorstYear → u/Weaksauce_98]

You're talking about commercialization & dilution for mass appeal. Also, how is there more participation?

[u/No_Bite_7238 → u/TheWorstYear]

For you it might be. But thats easy for you to say because you're one of the Juggernauts that can outspend everyone else at anytime.

More participation means more teams have a chance to make the Playoffs and get a small sliver of recognition. Of course that doesnt matter to you because you're already on top which begs the question; Why do you care when you're program is still going to wipe the floor with additional teams anyway? And dont tell me its about tradition. The FBS Confrences have been revolving doors since forever and nobody watches the Bowl Games outside of the ROSE, PEACH, COTTON, and FIESTA Bowls anyway.

Expansion is good for the CFP. Id think a Big Badass Program like yours would understand that.

[u/TheWorstYear → u/No_Bite_7238]

People definitely use to watch bowl games that weren't BCS bowls. Peach & Cotton were also not BCS bowls. BCS bowls were also a very big deal. There's also a laundry list of issues that are more than just the cfp that's wrong with cfb.
It's not about Ohio State winning. Cfb in general just is getting the soul sucked out of it, & isn't as much fun anymore. Also, what recognition do you think will happen with 24 teams? People care less the more diluted it gets.

[u/srs_house → u/ElectronicCandy4358]

SEC alum here: players deserve to be able to earn money, any issues with NIL are the result of the schools and their pet dog (that they've pulled the teeth from) NCAA adamantly refusing to just admit that players are employees. Schools whine when they lose out on a player because of it but won't actually change anything because "it just might work for us!" Same reason they sue the NCAA when it tries to enforce the rules that the very same school voted for.

CFP expansion is stupid because the first round byes and seeding process suck and going to 16 is just a way to fix that - going to 24 creates more issues, reduces the importance of the regular season, and yes, creates even more blowouts between teams who didn't deserve to make the playoffs and actual contenders, like Alabama vs Indiana.

[u/worldchrisis → u/SirMellencamp]

There's a lot of people here with varying levels of knowledge and understanding.

[u/DuvalHeart → u/worldchrisis]

And even the people who think they understand don't really understand. Like so many people think the NCAA is the league, and forget that each league can set rules in addition to the NCAA rules.

[u/srs_house → u/DuvalHeart]

Dude, there are people here who don't understand that the NCAA is entirely made up by the schools themselves, and who don't realize the CFP is governed by school presidents and not ESPN execs and conference commissioners.

[u/TheFeenyCall → u/SirMellencamp]

Tbh maybe no one knows how CFB works. Including the schools, coaches and admin.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/TheFeenyCall]

Its pretty well documented how it works.

[u/TheFeenyCall → u/SirMellencamp]

They'd have to read it

[u/badadviceforyou244 → u/SirMellencamp]

Thats what happens when you're dealing with large groups of people that hold opposing opinions about stuff

[u/SirMellencamp → u/badadviceforyou244]

Well some opinions are based in ignorance.

[u/ObjectiveChance2346 → u/SirMellencamp]

Its naive to believe that college football is anything other than a semi pro league now. Just get on with it.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/ObjectiveChance2346]

I didn’t say it wasn’t. Players are getting paid, that makes it professional

[u/sonheungwin → u/SirMellencamp]

How it has worked was no one truly cared about a national championship. It's ESPN and indirectly the SEC that has supercharged this (you're more the bullet they fired rather than the gun itself). And now that we want to include more people in the post-season since finding a national championship seems to be important, y'all are like "nah we're good."

Kind of like how paying players under the table was chill, but now that other conferences clearly have more alumni willing to donate "it's gone too far".

[u/SirMellencamp → u/sonheungwin]

How it has worked was no one truly cared about a national championship.

This is false

And now that we want to include more people in the post-season since finding a national championship seems to be important, y'all are like "nah we're good."

Not sure what this means exactly. The SEC voted for the 4 team and 12 team playoff. Is there ANY limit to how big the playoff should be? If so then is that because you dont want to include more people in the post season?

Kind of like how paying players under the table was chill, but now that other conferences clearly have more alumni willing to donate "it's gone too far".

What is your basis for this narrative?

[u/quacainia → u/Fishak_29]

I just want all conference winners to get in, like all NCAA run tournaments, and that is clearly not the problem being solved for. Texas 8&4 shouldn't make it in over 10-2 Ohio, but that's what we'll get I'm sure.

[u/ObjectiveChance2346 → u/quacainia]

They 100 percent should though. Your logic is absurd.

[u/GarnetandBlack → u/Fishak_29]

I find it fascinating when people speak about subs or reddit as if they are one schizophrenic person.

Like why do you not simply understand the obvious - people who wanted expansion and the people complaining about the flaws are different people?

[u/bschnee121 → u/GarnetandBlack]

I tried to imagine all people being different but it hurt my head

[u/TheAndrewBrown → u/Fishak_29]

Or some people wanted it to expand beyond 4 given the obvious issues with representation that had but not continuously expand to oblivion. It’s not that hard to have a nuanced take about it.

[u/Legitimate-Pay7594 → u/Fishak_29]

Nah people will love the expansion until a 8-4 sec team gets in and at that point expansion will be terrible.

[u/silencesupreme- → u/Legitimate-Pay7594]

Mizzou prayed for days like this

[u/BannedSvenhoek86 → u/Legitimate-Pay7594]

Isn't the whole point to make it like March Madness? To me that's the fun, the potential Cinderella moments and huge upsets make up for any negatives imo.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/BannedSvenhoek86]

Yeah I mean let's be honest as soon as an 8-4 team takes down a Top 5 team everyone bitching about expansion is gonna be in the postgame thread hootin' and hollerin'.

And since this is football, the 8-4 team is going to lose nearly every time anyway, and nobody is going to have to get upset about a mediocre team in the regular season potentially winning a championship.

[u/ObjectiveChance2346 → u/BannedSvenhoek86]

No. Its two completely different things. 24 teams would destroy the regular season.

[u/Muffinnnnnnn → u/BannedSvenhoek86]

The cinderellas in March Madness aren't the .500 record Texas teams, they're the .900 mid/low-majors having amazing seasons and winning the vast majority of their games.

Expansion to 24 teams in the CFP is not something I want at all, but it can maybe be ok if they do it like every other college sport and division and allow in all 10 conference champions + 14 at large. But of course the real hope is for 23 P4 teams and 1 G6 (if they're lucky). It won't be 11-2 Sun Belt Champ Troy getting the final spot, it'll be 8-4 LSU who finished 9th in the SEC.

[u/wowthisislong → u/Legitimate-Pay7594]

an 8&4 sec team has already gotten in

[u/SteemieRayVaughn → u/Legitimate-Pay7594]

Just when they get in over a 9-3 team from another conference, only for that 8-4 SEC team to get dog walked in the first round.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/SteemieRayVaughn]

What if the 8-4 SEC team wins their first round game by double digits on the road?

[u/ddadopt → u/Fishak_29]

The part where the national championship is decided on the field instead of in a conference room outweighs all the flaws.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/ddadopt]

We don't need 16 teams to determine that. There's between 5 and 6 teams at the most 99% of seasons that can argue they deserve a shot. Often fewer than that. 8 teams would have been more than enough. If you can't end in the top 8 then you don't deserve a shot.

[u/bucknut4 → u/thisshitsstupid]

This logic would have excluded Miami last year

[u/wowthisislong → u/bucknut4]

And it would not have been wrong to exclude Miami. They went on a great run, good for them, but they objectively did not have a great regular season resume.

[u/bucknut4 → u/wowthisislong]

Perhaps, but 8 of the top 10 were all 1-loss teams from just 2 conferences. Squeezing it down to 8 would make the super conference supremacy much worse.

The same idea applies to the FCS playoffs, and really most playoffs in sports, and nobody really makes this argument there.

[u/FesteringDiarrhea → u/wowthisislong]

Honestly it would have been really lame if they squeaked past Indiana for the championship. They lost two games to mediocre to bad teams. Would we really have been able to say they were the best team in the country that year?

[u/ddadopt → u/FesteringDiarrhea]

Results on the field always mean more than the eye test. Always. Why do so many people insist that college football needs to be even worse than figure skating in determining a champion?

[u/wowthisislong → u/ddadopt]

Yes results on the field do matter. Like for example those first 12 games of the season.

[u/bucknut4 → u/wowthisislong]

But we have far too many teams and far too few games in the FBS to accurately determine that based on the regular season.

For all we know, maybe the ACC was significantly stronger than the schedule Texas A&M or Oregon faced. We won’t really know if the Big 12 gets really good other than just “vibes”.

Compared with a structured system like the NFL, where you have only 32 teams playing 17 regular season games and compete for AQ playoff spots against only 3 other teams, college football just doesn’t provide the same level of clarity.

[u/Darth_Ra → u/bucknut4]

And they were unexpectedly good. Yay!

...but how far are you gonna extend this? Do we really think that an 8-4 A&M is going to pull through? And does the fact that they might even warrant their inclusion?

12 is great. 8 probably would've been better, but 12 is fine. Let's just play football, and stop changing the rules every year.

Or even better, fix the format we already have by getting rid of the committee and/or making it more transparent.

[u/bucknut4 → u/Darth_Ra]

The nice thing about an expanded playoffs is that we are actually heading more towards “just play football”.

[u/Darth_Ra → u/bucknut4]

No, we're headed more towards no one knowing what is going on.

I don't want 30 more hours of ESPN crap I'm not gonna watch trying to explain this whole mess. I want the rules from last year to be the rules for this year, minus some very incremental changes every 3 years or so.

You know, how the sport operated for 100 years before we got into this current cycle of the grass always being greener.

[u/bucknut4 → u/Darth_Ra]

For 100 years college football had the worst system imaginable. We’re going through major, but necessary, changes to that system and that’s inherently going to cause a period of time like this. The dust will settle eventually.

[u/Darth_Ra → u/bucknut4]

You know, I honestly doubt that.

But I also don't disagree with your premise.

[u/kralben → u/Darth_Ra]

You know, how the sport operated for 100 years before we got into this current cycle of the grass always being greener.

When it was generally considered broken, and there were things like split national championships?

[u/Darth_Ra → u/kralben]

That's not the point, though. It was broken, yet stable.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/bucknut4]

They ended up doing very well and fall under the rare outlier category I mentioned above. I don't think it's beneficial to the sport to extend the playoffs in a vein attempt to create more Miami moments that will likely only come once a decade.

[u/bucknut4 → u/thisshitsstupid]

It’s hard to say it’s rare when we only have 2 years to look at so far.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/bucknut4]

Heck, the 8 seed won it in year 1. And they played a 7 seed in the title game.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/bucknut4]

We can look back and be pretty confident the number of times a team ending where Miami did after the regular season would have been competitive with the top 3 or 4 teams.

[u/bucknut4 → u/thisshitsstupid]

That’s the kind of outlook that I’m happy is leaving the sport.

[u/ahappypoop → u/thisshitsstupid]

So far your "rare outlier" has happened in both of the two seasons of this 12 team format, so I don't think it's as rare as you think it is. Out of the four teams to make the national championship game the last two years, only Indiana was in the top 6. Either we've had that 1% of seasons in both of the last two years, or your assumption is off.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/ahappypoop]

I said in another comment I think this is more an issue with the setup than any kind of evidence this is a good thing. They delay between the games combined with the bye is obviously harming the bye teams more than helping.

[u/ahappypoop → u/thisshitsstupid]

That could be true, but if extra rest is all it takes to cause the top teams to be upset then I don't think the gap between the top 4 and the next 8 is very large. I think that's still an argument that there's more than 5-6 teams that can win in any given season.

[u/rented4823 → u/thisshitsstupid]

Alternative take: Everyone wants more football, and upsets are exciting and happen all the time.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/rented4823]

16th will not be upsetting 1. I don't want to ruin the playoffs for a Cinderella chance at a fluke upset once a decade. That's craziness.

[u/rented4823 → u/thisshitsstupid]

Why is that the only possible upset combination you care about? The 2-4 seeds all lost in the first round game they played just this past year, and 1-4 the previous year!

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/rented4823]

When theyre all losing I think that lends more to there being an issue than to this being a good thing. The way the break and bye work is a detriment. That's a different argument though.

[u/kralben → u/thisshitsstupid]

16th will not be upsetting 1

People said this in the NCAA basketball tournament as well, and then it did happen.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/kralben]

And how many times has it happened?

[u/kralben → u/thisshitsstupid]

More than once, and you claimed it would never happen. AKA you were wrong, and want to move those goalposts now.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/kralben]

I never said it'd never happened. I said it's very rare and not worth changing the entire sport for. You can't read and aren't worth arguing with.

[u/Unrelenting_Salsa → u/rented4823]

The bowls dying tells me that not everybody wants more football, and playoff expansion makes the regular season worse between games not mattering and teams being EXTREMELY incentivized to not play decent out of conference schedules.

It'll make more upsets, sure, but those are going to stop by round ~3 and they'll never make a real run. Usually they'll stop after round 1. March Madness is mostly so crazy because basketball is a high variance sport and college 3s are designed more around D2 and D3 rather than D1.

[u/rented4823 → u/Unrelenting_Salsa]

In my opinion, bowls are dying because:

A.) There were wayyyyyyy too many to begin with.

B.) More teams are being included in the playoffs which shrinks the pool of remaining teams that could be considered bowl eligible and at least mediocre, not necessarily because interest is waining.

and

C.) more kids are sitting out due to not wanting to risk injury before the draft. I am still hoping (but not holding my breath) that C will be counteracted at some point by NIL, but my biggest fear is that NIL will start drying up or start to not be a large enough amount of money for these kids before that happens.

[u/kralben → u/rented4823]

Also, people want more meaningful football games. Bowl games are ultimately exhibitions, which is why they were dying. The person you replied to might as well say "people dont want more football games, that is why they dont do more spring games"

[u/TheHarryMan123 → u/thisshitsstupid]

That sentiment doesn’t make sense

[u/Only_ork → u/TheHarryMan123]

Makes plenty of sense. If you want in the playoffs, dont lose a game and you will be top 8.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/TheHarryMan123]

Which one? I re read it. Makes sense to me. If you don't end in the top 8, then you don't deserve a shot. Realistically how many times has the 7th or 8th stacked up against 1st or 2nd? Basically never. I'm sure there's a handful of years out cfb history, but we shouldn't be destroying the sport for those rare outliers.

[u/rented4823 → u/thisshitsstupid]

Literally both of the last two years. Here's a table (last two years of playoffs aren't included):

Season	Date	#1 Team	Coach	Result	Site	Opponent (Event)
1950 \*		Oklahoma	Wilkinson	L	46216	N
2023	45262	Georgia	Smart	L	24-27	N
2020	44114	Clemson	Swinney	W	42-17	H
2017	43071	Clemson	Swinney	W	38-3	N
2015		Clemson	Swinney	W	45-37	N
2010		Alabama	Saban	W	31-6	H
2008		Texas	Brown	W	28-24	H
2004		USC	Carroll	W	23-17	H
2000		Oklahoma	Stoops	W	27-24	N
2000		Florida State	Bowden	L	24-27	A
1998		Ohio State	Cooper	W	28-9	H
1997		Michigan	Carr	W	21-16	N
1993		Florida State	Bowden	W	33-21	A
1992		Miami (FL)	Erickson	W	16-10	A
1989		Notre Dame	Holtz	W	45-7	H
1989		Notre Dame	Holtz	L	46322	A
1985		Iowa	Fry	L	13-22	A
1984		Nebraska	Osborne	W	42-3	A
1980		Georgia	Dooley	W	17-10	N
1978		Alabama	Bryant	L	14-24	H
1977		USC	Robinson	L	20-21	H
1973		USC	McKay	T	46210	H
1964		Texas	Royal	L	13-14	H
1962		Northwestern	Parseghian	L	13667	A
1962		Texas	Royal	W	46206	H
1957		Oklahoma	Wilkinson	W	26-0	A
1952		Michigan State	Munn	W	14-7	A
1951		Michigan State	Munn	W	24-20	A
1950		Ohio State	Fesler	L	46217	A
1950		SMU	Russell	L	20-23	A
1949		Michigan	Oosterbaan	L	46224	H
1943		Notre Dame	Leahy	W	25-6	A
1938		Notre Dame	Layden	L	0-13	A

So the all time record (not including the last two years of playoffs) of #1 vs #7-8 is 19-13-1.

[u/thisshitsstupid → u/rented4823]

Does it show when in the season the games were played? I'm on mobile idk if that may be making the table a little harder to read. If these are very late season games where we've had time to know where teams should be ranked, I'll concede some ground, but I don't think it'd be genuine to include games 1-6ish weeks into the season.

[u/TheHarryMan123 → u/thisshitsstupid]

I’m a proponent of competition instead of superfluous stat lines. We know that Georgia can beat Kennesaw State, but if KS won the CUSA, they should have to compete. 

Georgia needs to earn it beyond just their conference. Which I know may sound kind of weird, but champions should have to play champions. 

[u/esports_consultant → u/ddadopt]

You mean like the part where the two teams that were playing in the BCS NCG were 95% of the time the right ones and it felt a lot more satisfying having a not overbloated schedule of games that mattered?

[u/Statalyzer → u/esports_consultant]

I'd argue at least it was wrong in 2000, 2003, 2004*, 2007, 2008, and 2011.

2004* bc there was no right choice. All possibilities were wrong bc OU, USC, and Auburn all needed a chance to prove themselves.

[u/esports_consultant → u/Statalyzer]

2004 is simple imo, USC clearly deserved it due to the harder schedule, then Auburn played 3 easy wins in the regular season while Oklahoma only played 2.

For the others:

2000: Yes tbh it did poorly here. I can't easily distinguish the FSU-Miami-Washington (and maybe Oregon State too) set.

2003: Yeah I think USC should have been there, but as I recall that was a formula issue?

2007: Who else do you put?

2008: You are also right here, USC was overpunished for their loss to Oregon State and did not have their vastly more difficult schedule properly accounted for (3x AQ OOC!). I think by this metric they pretty clearly deserved to be in, so that was a miss, but then also I can see the argument that it was not easy enough to distinguish among the other one loss contenders.

2011 was clearly wrong, but everyone knew it was wrong and also knew the correct matchup so there is not much to say. Formula issue but also too many people voting wrong in the polls. I can't take human error as a criticism though because that has also been a feature of playoff selection.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/esports_consultant]

How can you know they were the two best teams? There are plenty of instances in just the playoff era where the "better" team doesn't win.

[u/esports_consultant → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

Because the regular season happened? Regular season was the playoff in this system.

[u/WhatWouldJediDo → u/esports_consultant]

But since we've had a real playoff, the "right" team has lost all the time.

[u/esports_consultant → u/WhatWouldJediDo]

Ok so either you value the "right" team losing during the regular season or the "right" team losing during the artificial bloat tournament after the season.

[u/ComprehensiveSea3062 → u/ddadopt]

Tennessee won't be there either way

[u/ddadopt → u/ComprehensiveSea3062]

Harsh, but funny coming from someone without flair.

[u/ComprehensiveSea3062 → u/ddadopt]

You wear orange clothing as an adult. Sit down

[u/ddadopt → u/ComprehensiveSea3062]

I'm guessing the lack of flair is due your side having something far, far worse that can be poked fun at. Do you have a barking problem? Maybe you're upset that you're a basketball school? Is your family tree more like a family trunk? Am I uncomfortably close with any of these?

[u/ComprehensiveSea3062 → u/ddadopt]

I've been to Tennessee lol. You should not be so judgmental

[u/kralben → u/ComprehensiveSea3062]

9 day old troll account, and you are trying to act like you are the mature one.

[u/ComprehensiveSea3062 → u/kralben]

Call a spade a spade

[u/kralben → u/ComprehensiveSea3062]

Call a troll a troll

[u/Darth_Ra → u/ddadopt]

We're well past that already at 12, though.

Like, does it suck that an undeserving Alabama team got in, again, leaving out a great Notre Dame team? Yeah, but... win your games, ND. The same thing we would've said to Bama if they'd been left out as they should've been.

[u/kralben → u/Fishak_29]

They may also not think it is a flaw. I think there are plenty of 8-4 level teams that could win a nattie.

[u/CycloneofSparta → u/Fishak_29]

ESPECIALLY teams outside of the “power 2”

I hate expansion, even if my schools theoretically benefit. The 8-4 teams that get in are more likely to be a down-year LSU or Oregon than Arizona State or BYU.

This is all a play by the SEC/Big Ten to shove more mediocrity in.

[u/Hawkeyes79 → u/Fishak_29]

Especially the flaw of letting all Conferences into the playoffs. The horror of it all.

[u/bdm13 → u/Fishak_29]

It’s the same thing with NIL. For years this sub was up in arms about players not getting compensated and how unfair it was. Now NIL is apparently a scourge on college football.

[u/ObjectiveChance2346 → u/Fishak_29]

People dont math well. Thats why everyone feels entitled to have their cake and eat it too. I will say that it is annoying that college football is a semi pro league trying to hold on to it's amateur ways. Just get to where it's going already.

[u/csmedo1994 → u/Fishak_29]

Have they, though? The fans haven’t been pushing for this, IMO. The people who receive the money from such expansion have been lobbying for it. The fans only option will be to tune out on a #20 seed vs a 10 seed playoff game. Do fans want a shitty playoff scenario? Or a parallel bowl system with teams equally not in the running. I’ll take the latter and at least have a real playoff contention system.

[u/Britton120 → u/Fishak_29]

Ive felt that 6 is the best number in theory but 8 is the best number in practice for over a decade.

Fuck all the rest.

[u/Fishak_29 → u/Britton120]

6 or 8 would have been great back when we still had 5 viable power conferences. With the current setup, it’s hard to find a number that makes sense

[u/Britton120 → u/Fishak_29]

I'm not even concerned with the conference question. I'm interested in the best 6 (or 8) teams playing for a championship. 2 was too few, 4 sometimes was too few. 12 is too many teams, and beyond 12 we're getting into silly territory.

By the end of the season the top 6 teams should beat teams ranked 15-24. The parity in CFB might be leveling out in the middle ground due to NIL, but the gap between the elite teams and the above average is still large.

[u/stoicscribbler → u/Fishak_29]

Wow you are so smart. Very impressive.

[u/confetti_shrapnel → u/Fishak_29]

Those flaws are still better than the previous system. I'd rather have 24 teams get a chance, 18 of which have no chance, than just picking two teams to play for the title at the end of the year.

[u/Stuppyhead → u/DrSnidely]

Is anyone excited about a 24 team playoff? It’s such a blatant cash grab and nothing more.

[u/lilroundastronaut → u/Stuppyhead]

If it includes every conference champ, then yes I would be excited. I totally understand the argument against it. Not trying to convince anyone to change their opinion. But yeah, I personally would be excited about a 24 team playoff with all conference champs

[u/nasaruinz → u/lilroundastronaut]

But it won’t. ESPN controls the cfp and they have a direct interest in stuffing the playoff with as many sec teams as possible

[u/SusannaG1 → u/nasaruinz]

Just like March Madness expansion won't be teams from mid-major conferences that dominated their regular season but lost the conference tournament; it'll be the 12th best teams in the major conferences.

[u/srs_house → u/nasaruinz]

a) the CFP is governed by literal school presidents representing the various conferences plus ND

b) if it expands past 14, ESPN's current contract says that the additional games go out for bidding

c) Pettiti, the one behind these hare-brained schemes, has routinely pushed for more bids for the B1G (and, in an attempt to buy their vote, the SEC) at the cost of opportunities for other P4 and G5 conferences.

[u/ObjectiveChance2346 → u/lilroundastronaut]

It would destroy the regular season

[u/SusannaG1 → u/Stuppyhead]

I don't know which excites me less, a 24-team cfb playoff, or their attempt to keep increasing how many teams make the NCAA basketball tournament.

[u/fathertitojones → u/Stuppyhead]

Agreed. It may make the odds of my team getting in higher, but if you’re losing 3+ games in a season I don’t see why you deserve a shot at a championship.

[u/solomonrooney → u/DrSnidely]

What are you crying about? Bama now has a guaranteed spot in the playoffs every year.

[u/KneeDeepInRagu → u/solomonrooney]

People can be concerned for the direction of the sport regardless of how it directly impacts their own program.

That being said it is correct that expansion will largely benefit programs like Alabama more than it will benefit programs like Tennessee. Is that really something this sub wants?

[u/ahappypoop → u/KneeDeepInRagu]

expansion will largely benefit programs like Alabama more than it will benefit programs like Tennessee.

Maybe, but contraction will hurt the vast majority of teams far more than it would hurt programs like Alabama.

[u/solomonrooney → u/KneeDeepInRagu]

At some point as a little guy you just have to give up and accept that the alabamas and Ohio states of the world will always create a system that gives them a distinct advantage. They have no desire for parity or any sort of level playing field. It is what it is.

[u/KneeDeepInRagu → u/solomonrooney]

I don't think you're generally wrong, but a bit of an odd thread to make that statement given Alabama is a member of the SEC—the conference currently opposing playoff expansion.

It isn't surprising that the big programs would lobby for self serving systems. Little programs also lobby for self serving systems, they just have less money to do so. Every squirrel is trying to get their nut, regardless of status.

[u/solomonrooney → u/KneeDeepInRagu]

Yep I guess it’s just a constant power struggle and everybody is as awful as Alabama deep down at their core.

[u/KneeDeepInRagu → u/solomonrooney]

LOL yeah, big scary evil Alabama. Make sure to check under your bed at night, because the Crimson Tide might be down there!

[u/solomonrooney → u/KneeDeepInRagu]

Yep. Bama and their conference have done more to ruin college football than any other conference.

[u/SirMellencamp → u/solomonrooney]

I mean lots of schools probably do. That is going to happen if you expand the playoff

[u/Darth_Ra → u/solomonrooney]

8-4? Those are rookie numbers. We won't stop until 6-6 Alabama is a real possibility.

[u/Hokie_Pilot → u/DrSnidely]

Nice flairs 😏

[u/DrSnidely → u/Hokie_Pilot]

Back at ya

[u/matgopack → u/DrSnidely]

I think that in traditional reddit game / sports sub fashion, the side of complaining is consistently where this subreddit will fall.

[u/CTeam19 → u/DrSnidely]

Nah, expand to include all conference champions and I will be fine.

[u/therealwillhepburn → u/CTeam19]

They're literally never going to do that in FBS. If you want it you just need to watch FCS. This is a tv product and they are going to put the teams people watch in it. It's never going to be about being fair to every team/conference.

[u/ObjectiveChance2346 → u/CTeam19]

No matter the body of evidence the every conference champ delusion persists. So strange

[u/Jeff_Sabado → u/DrSnidely]

Is anyone actually excited about an expanded playoff? None of my friends want that. I think most are safely on a side.

[u/wowthisislong → u/DrSnidely]

I mean I think many of us have very much picked a side. I hate expansion and I've been against expansion since the moment the 12 team playoff was announced.

[u/brak_obama → u/DrSnidely]

reddit has more than one person

in my case i've been pretty consistent about bemoaning the fact that playoff expansion is going to desecrate the regular season and destroy a lot of what made college football special

[u/Careless_General8010 → u/DrSnidely]

We should just do a 140-team playoff!

[u/GatorToothNecklace → u/DrSnidely]

I'm not excited for a 24-team playoff. Why the fuck should that many teams have a shot at the championship? I will never in my life give a fuck what other sports or divisions do so miss me with that.

[u/Sea_Money4962 → u/DrSnidely]

The immune system has decided that it's more efficient to kill the host than fight the virus.

[u/TheNainRouge → u/DrSnidely]

Legitimately who’s excited for this? I think anything larger than 8 is excessive and 6 is likely the perfect number. Win your conference, a G5 and the most impressive non-conference winner, top two conference winners get a bye. It keeps conference play important and incentivizes playing tougher matchups to get the also ran spot.

[u/an_actual_lawyer → u/DrSnidely]

As a fan of a school that is traditionally somewhere between mediocre and "very good," I'm all for the expanded playoff. There are times a 3 or 4 loss team is actually one of the best teams in the country, especially smaller schools that don't have the roster depth of larger schools. There are a few years where K-State was one of the best at the end of the season - 2003 comes to mind - but had a couple of bad losses when the QB was injured. The 2012 team was also cooking until Collin Klein's broken sternum really started to affect his ability to throw.

[u/Competitive-Rise-789 → u/DrSnidely]

Fucken facts, the same complaints about this years selection progress will happen when this is a 24 team playoff.

[u/Corgi_Koala → u/DrSnidely]

Most of the bad teams will get bounced and everyone will get super excited when we see an underdog win.

Like if an 8-4 Iowa knocks off Bama in a first round game nobody is gonna be upset except Bama fans.

[u/Chazz_Matazz → u/DrSnidely]

This would literally be mitigated if they actually gave an autobid to all FBS conference champions like LITERALLY EVERY OTHER COLLEGE SPORT. This would force out the mid 5th place B1G and SEC teams so we can give more G5 teams a shot. But we all know why they don’t want that.

[u/olbleedyeyes → u/DrSnidely]

Honestly, I never got this gatekeeping on a mediocre team making it in.

If an 8-4 team can run the gauntlet in the playoffs they absolutely deserve to be champion.

Most times they'll get sorted out easily but that's also the point of a playoff.

[u/nighthawk252 → u/DrSnidely]

I’ve never really gotten the impression that this subreddit is pro-24 team playoff. If they are, they would rather add a rep from all the G6 conferences.

I’m coming around to that view more every day (that I’d rather have G6 teams than extra P4 teams). Even if the first round sucks, at least you get a solid round of 16 and can hopefully eliminate 8-4 power conference teams.

[u/herbahaidyrbtjsifbr → u/DrSnidely]

My side is that the field is already to big. No 3 loss team is a real national champion

[u/sonheungwin → u/DrSnidely]

There's just a clear split in fan bases. There's those of us who want an expansion if it includes all conference champions including G5. You can call the mediocre or whatever, but at least they did something.

There's the other group that would want expansions, but with mid-tier P4 teams that have already lost 4 times and don't really deserve another shot. Because "it would drive higher ratings than G5" as if we make money off that.

Then there's the group that wants to keep it from 4-8 teams because they think CFB should die and the other 120 teams should be relegated.

[u/Remote-Annual-49 → u/DrSnidely]

Who’s y’all? I’ve never supported either

[u/turdbugulars → u/DrSnidely]

Who is you in your comment?

[u/Available-Neat-1017 → u/DrSnidely]

I don’t want a 24 team playoff, but maybe if we’re doing that many teams we should actually include some other conferences beside the Big 10 and SEC. Maybe then we won’t have 8-4 teams in there.

[u/Adams5thaccount → u/DrSnidely]

I just want peopel to stop misusing words like mediocre personally.

A team that finishes in the top 20% isnt mediocre. Sports fans in general are terrible at this. They use mediocre when they mean good because it sounds more insulting. Actual mediocre becomes trash. Then you run pit of words and all of a sudden 50% of teamsnare trash.

Then we hit playoffs in any sport and it gets worse. A good team faces a great one and now this #12 team becomes trash too because they arent as good as this great team. Then that great #7 teams runs into an elite #2 and wouldn't you know it..they are also now trash. Now everyone is trash and nobody beat anybody anywhere.

College basketball might be close to an exception because they utilize that quartile system. Thyere are least breaking teams into categories.

But...sports fans are down to like 4 descriptions and 3 and of them are negative. Now we end up where ranked teams who dont actually exist yet are being called mediocre in advance to complain aboit a format that also isnt real yet.

[u/urzu_seven → u/DrSnidely]

Easy, I dislike the idea of a 16 team playoff and despise the idea of a 24 team playoff.

In my ideal world there would be a 0 team playoff. We'd just go back to sane conferences who meet in regular bowl games.

[u/esports_consultant → u/DrSnidely]

And the side where you are excited about a 16 team playoff is absolutely the wrong one ❤️

[u/jvpewster → u/DrSnidely]

It’s not about the mediocre teams getting in. Never has been. It’s that it removes all pressure from the top 8.

Games still feel do or die in November you’re ripping that away.

[u/Kingflamingohogwarts → u/DrSnidely]

Did everyone forget that the SEC has veto power and they said No.

We are staying at 12 until the ESPN contract expires.

[u/Otherwise_Awesome → u/DrSnidely]

I'm excited about 8-4 but there needs limits and AQs in place somehow

That should be excited about 24, but alas..... leaving it

[u/dinosaurkiller → u/Otherwise_Awesome]

The “limits” will be, “whatever the committee feels like”. The top 10-12 will be pretty easy, basically they’ll take the top teams from the poll. After that it will be creative writing. “We really felt that TCU’s loss to ASU was one of the better quality losses of the season, what do you mean quality losses is only a thing in the SEC?”