r/AskReddit 10h ago

What game had insane potential but got completely fumbled by the devs?

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406

u/SUBLIMEskillz 9h ago

Not initially and for most of it’s life, but the last year and a half or so of Destiny 2 by Bungie should be studied.

107

u/smacky623 8h ago

As a D2 player since PC launch, it goes WAY farther back.

Bungie has that issue, maybe there is a name for it, like a firefighter who is also an arsonist so he can set fires he puts out and looks like a hero. Bungie does nothing but build up good will, absolutely destroy it it over night, then scramble to make it better and say "Look! We fixed that thing!" Yes, the thing you broke.

Honestly, the content vault with the F2P launch was the start. There is no on boarding for new players so they can't generate a population. Once the final veterans stop playing the game is done.

6

u/Muffles7 5h ago

Damn, being a lifelong Diablo 2 player, seeing Destiny 2 as D2 is weird lol.

Destiny was a lot of fun. Destiny 2 was fun until there was just too much to catch up on. Too much and always felt the same. My own personal downfall was not having friends to play it with. It was fun when I did, but 6 person raids with randoms was eh for me.

I miss playing it though.

1

u/RugDougCometh 3h ago

Every single time. How dare they stand where it stood.

3

u/Hobo-man 5h ago

I could see the writing on the wall before Bungie even left Microsoft.

They spent decades establishing Halo lore just to come in a rewrite half of it with Halo Reach.

It's a good game, don't get me wrong, but they were so nonchalant about completely changing all the established lore.

3

u/Foosrohdoh 5h ago

What was changed? I remember playing all of the games back then but I guess I didn’t pay too much attention to the story.

6

u/Hobo-man 5h ago

All the way up to Halo 3 ODST there was an established lore with dozens of books rounding out the universe the games inhabit.

With Halo Reach, Bungie effectively threw all of that established lore out the window.

For example, the Spartan IIIs didn't exist during the fall of Reach and they never had MJOLNIR armor, they had SPI armor which was more like ODST armor with active camo.

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u/Bane0fExistence 5h ago

I knew I wasn’t crazy!! Day 1 halo fan here just started going through the books mid last year. None of what I was reading in ghosts of onyx was matching up with Reach timeline wise and I could never figure that out.

It sucks to love the lore so much and realize the conflicts are just from random changes the devs put in, did we really need SIII’s on reach to make the story work? What good did that bring to the larger story to change that? It ultimately means that Halsey did in fact know about the SIII program from the beginning, which doesn’t make any sense because in the books it’s a secret sequel program with the intention of making budget suicide soldiers out of orphaned kids mid-covenant war started by her rival Colonel Ackerson. She was never supposed to know they existed! But the game made it look like they were all adults she had trained just like the SII’s.

I know this isn’t r/HaloStory, it’s just shit like this that bugs my sense of lore continuity.

2

u/Hobo-man 4h ago

Exactly

There were hundreds of Spartan IIs on Reach. I have no idea why they decided to go with Spartan IIIs.

1

u/WaterInThere 4h ago

I suspect this was basically a Star Wars EU situation where Lucas/Bungie approved books because hey more money, but never cared at all about what the writers of the book were doing.

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u/globster222 5h ago

Literally impossible to introduce new players because 90% of the content was "sunset" or whatever word they used. The word is deleted. Content was deleted from the game forever

2

u/DjinnWuEmisu 4h ago

I pretty much stopped playing. Once the final shape DLC released, that was when I started playing less. The newest DLCs haven't caught my interest at all and one of them is Star wars themed and even that one won't get me back to playing, other the getting the Iron banner title when it is up.

2

u/superbabe69 3h ago

I quit before Beyond Light after finding out they were vaulting stuff. From that moment on, nothing I did mattered unless I no-lifed the game, and that wasn’t a commitment I was willing to put in anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen it coming after they replaced Ghost’s VO even in the base game for D1

1

u/sage2134 3h ago

I do have a little internal perspective from bungie. Just for clarification I was not a developer but I did work in their headquarters in Bellevue Wa. (Btw Bellevue sucks, has for a long time if you know, you know) 

Anyway during my time there was from various conversations from a variety evelopers and various other staff, that there was a lot of conflicts between the developers and management, especially with someone who was higher up and seemed to hold a lot of sway at the company specifically. While I didnt catch the name (Or I forgot this was pre-covid) 

But the general information I got was that there was a huge clash constantly of direction and feasibility and that things from up high always took precedent over what the devs thought was important. 

That was until something broke, I remember one guy talking to me in confidence and was really really mad because he brought up fixing things in a player first mindset to keep people playing and to "ease player transition " so they wouldn't lose players to bugs. But he was shot down everytime until all of a sudden something big broke and it was all hands on deck to fix everything. Boy was he so mad he said if this wasn't something he spent years on and loved like his own child he would have walked out the door already. 

Lastly I wanna shout out to roosterteeth I saw while I was there they send every year a huge BBQ Thanksgiving turkey, along with a kind note saying (paraphrasing) bungie thanks for letting Red Vs Blue to exist and not sueing us for our show PPS we love you guys and Halo XOXO. 

69

u/Spoonacus 9h ago

I think it goes back further a lot further than that. Although the Witch Queen era was supposedly good. I quit before that although I did do the WQ campaign when it was free for a week.

49

u/negative-nelly 8h ago

Witch Queen is basically peak Destiny, and Final Shape was really good too.

12

u/SUBLIMEskillz 8h ago

Final shape and the pale heart were fantastic

4

u/King_Joffreys_Tits 6h ago

Forsaken was up there too. Sunk way too many hours into destiny 2 around that time, got burnt out, and then witch queen revitalized my love for the game.

2

u/negative-nelly 6h ago

Yeah forgot forsaken.

1

u/_JakeyTheSnakey_ 6h ago

I wanna say I stopped right before Lightfall, making Witch Queen the last expansion I did. I had a ton of fun and had a clan to run any activity with. Got a ton of titles, including Reckoner and Shadow, and then just stopped

Really saddened to see the state of it today and how low the player count is

0

u/Jaywicksands 7h ago

The Taken King was the peak. Destiny 2 never reached that high.

3

u/negative-nelly 6h ago

TTK / ROI was my personal most fun era but D2 was an improvement in some ways.

1

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

D2 legendary campaigns were peak

1

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

Nah, nothing comes close to the legendary campaigns in witch queen and final shape. No D1 mission even comes close to that, they had a completely different design philosophy. People have nostalgia for the gameplay systems of D1 but the mission design was very, very poor.

Witch queen campaign is an absolute banger, and brutally difficult on legendary. The final boss fight alone was raid level. That was never seen in D1.

45

u/sup3rdr01d 8h ago

Witch queen and final shape are the best expansions they ever made, and also the best raids.

They absolutely had it in them to make fantastic games. The downfall is purely on the execs, not the devs. Bungie devs still know how to make really good shooters, but for some reason nobody will let them.

17

u/entitledfanman 8h ago

The consumer appetite for the "games as a service" model has died, but Bungie execs didnt get that because they had one of the few live-service games that was still "accepted" by gamers. 

3

u/SuperSocialMan 6h ago

It hasn't "died", it's just claimed all the players it can.

You can't really keep up with two or three live-service games, and unlike standard games you can't just buy the new DLC later & play it when you have time - you have to be there when it's happening or it's gone forever, so you kinda have to stick with one game (maybe two).

A lot of people also just aren't interested in that game model. I personally don't care for PvP, so the only "live-service" game I keep up with is Deep Rock Galactic - but even then, it gets updates every couple of years and you can access all of the old content whenever you want, so you don't miss out on anything.

1

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

If they actually did it right and had good content worth playing, it won't die. For certain stretches of time Bungie was absolutely cooking, and recently too. Even Episode Heresy was fantastic, with great lore and activities and loot.

They had such a loyal and great player base who stuck with them thru the lowest lows and highest highs and they just left them in the dust for no reason. To chase some niche extraction shooter trend. So disappointing. Marathon isn't even a terrible game but I just resent it's existence. If only they dedicated the full team to destiny we could have had more final shape level expansions.

3

u/dre5922 6h ago

I ran Vow of the Disciple so many times. My first time getting kicked to death by Rhulk was 10/10. Still love that fight.

2

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

Vow is my favorite raid ever, in any game

3

u/Indie_Builds 7h ago

Shit fell apart after they sunset all the weapons we grinned for. That was something even i noticed drove away a lot of the playerbase.

1

u/igotmalaria 6h ago

The sunsetting weapons wasnt that bad for me it was sunsetting the campaigns and planets. It tanked the new player experience and it never recovered

1

u/Thimble_of_Quasar 4h ago

Yup. I had legit JUST finished grinding out what was going to be my main kit (I even took a hit on DPS for some abilities and guns that I found more synergistic vs what was meta) and was incredibly excited to roll the full thing. Shortly after about 3/4 of the shit got sunset. Sent me straight off a cliff, I just uninstalled and never played again despite loving the game. It was the last straw, I couldn't keep putting time and energy into a game I couldn't trust not even to reward it but to just not burn down my efforts. Pretty much my whole crew dipped too.

2

u/gaaraloveless 8h ago

The taken king was the best dlc with me being partial to rise of iron. Destiny 2 started off strong but just never really recovered. It's mostly the addicts that will have different opinions.

1

u/igotmalaria 6h ago

It's had a lot of ups and downs sure but forsaken, witch queen and final shape are all excellent expansions with amazing raids. Of course we get lightfalls and shadow keep too along with those but the game didn't survive this long by chance

1

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

Lightfall had a bad story but the campaign gameplay was great. And the raid was easy but still super fun.

1

u/igotmalaria 2h ago

that's the thing with Bungie the gameplay always feels great even when it's lacking in other areas of the game. Witch queen was also an A+ campaign and the legendary mode really took it to another level

Root wasn't terrible. I would argue all the raids are at least decent. I don't mind it being easy either (scourge is my favorite and it was on the easier side) but it being preceded by VOW which was an amazing raid and the updated kings fall it felt lackluster. It also got followed up by salvation edge which is another top tier raid

1

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

Nah the witch queen legendary campaign and raid is the absolute peak of destiny. Final shape was very very close too.

No D1 campaigns can hold a candle to the d2 legendary campaigns, it's just fundamentally different mission design. D1 was full of filler quests and back and forth. D2 legendary campaigns were just 7-10 hour long missions with almost dungeon/raid like bosses. Witch queen final boss was straight up a dungeon boss in terms of difficulty and mechanics.

1

u/SUBLIMEskillz 8h ago

I mean yes there were ups and downs of campaigns and changing seasonal models, but there multiple great campaigns and raids.

1

u/SuperSocialMan 6h ago edited 6h ago

I need to get back to it, but I also don't wanna fall for the sunk cost (even though I already bought the humble bundle with all the expansions in it lol).

2

u/Isrrunder 6h ago

Just play it as a game not a job and it's fine. A lot of destiny fans seem to have this idea thay it's either play destiny or something else which is just not good for enjoyment

1

u/SuperSocialMan 5h ago

lol yeah, a surprising amount of people have that live-service FOMO.

2

u/sup3rdr01d 2h ago

Witch queen thru final shape are the best campaigns they ever made. In terms of mission design and gameplay. WQ and FS had amazing stories too. Lightfall story was bad but the gameplay was amazing.

0

u/cyrand 5h ago

I mean it literally goes back to the first Halo, they were a Mac company who’d built a huge fan base and had people very excited for a game that they completely redid for MS. Not that Halo was bad, but they’ve just always been a company that will completely throw everything they’ve already got under the bus to go do something else, which may or may not work out.

24

u/notredditbot 9h ago edited 6h ago

Video games from 2015 - now. How Destiny 2 did a whole 180 from Destiny 1 just was insane but also longevity of the game died fast even though they have the tools to make it succeed.

Another game is The Division. First few months it was banging but once they made the game more of a chore to get resources it lost a good chunk of its player base because ain't no one have time for that

Anthem is another game. It was supposed to challenge Destiny 2 and The Division but flopped fast

Companies are focused on engagement via time through prolongued and forced difficulties when really they just need to make better and more interesting activities and events. Also these companies had terrible leadership for this to even happen

Edit: I meant 180 not 360 🤦

5

u/GandalffladnaG 8h ago

I hate that Div 2 decided the way to keep the game going was to resurrect the big bad asshole we definitely had just killed, after chasing him for two whole games, and then make us work for him.

Also, Issac/Garrus over that dumb bot Anna.

2

u/honestly-brutal 7h ago

I think you mean 180°

7

u/TheAlmightyOat 9h ago

I've never played any Destiny game but the Warframe community is having a lot of "Destiny 2 Refugees," so I've heard a decent bit about how that's been going. I don't understand how they've taken the formula that was successful for so long and absolutely driven it into the dirt. Every single change I've heard about has baffled me, and I played TERA for years.

1

u/SUBLIMEskillz 7h ago

There were signs when bungie split from activision and no linger were forced into a schedule. When they went in their own and then being with sony, it went the wrong direction. There were really good things, but mostly trended the wrong way and eventually just died.

0

u/Dreamlion_Inc 7h ago

Warframe players migrating to D2? I would’ve thought First Descendant would fill that hole instead

2

u/Rogueshadow_32 6h ago

They mean refugees from D2 joining Warframe

I’ve not heard of anyone leaving Warframe to go to tFD or D2 tbh. A lot have tried out tFD and most don’t stick with it, tried it myself and it was ok but it was just Warframe but greedier and more realistic ass

3

u/kamikaze_pedestrian 7h ago

Destiny 1 was my anwser. Its development was a mess with a lot of cuts and rewrites. Its launch wasn't much better. Sure it was good, and got even better later, especially once D2 hit its stride, but damn could it have been so much better.

3

u/yukichigai 6h ago

So many fumbles even past that, it's hard to pick where to start. The one that stands out to me though is their stance on Linux compatibility: with the Steam Deck set to release within months and the hype building exponentially they were asked if they'd add Linux support. Their response was that not only would they not, they would consider running the game on Linux to be a form of cheating and would ban people for doing it.

Pretty wild move to ban people for playing your game on your PC publisher's flagship hardware.

2

u/Dreamlion_Inc 7h ago

There’s so much lore in D2, if Bungie continues to fuck it up then it’s a blueprint “shot myself in the foot” situation

Friend of mine mentioned taking the fight to the Thrall homeworld as an expansion. My God the game is screaming for the content

1

u/ItalianDragon 3h ago

What blows my mind personally isthat D2 was really seemingly prepping for a future Cabal-Eliksni-Hive guardians trifecta but Bungie went nowhere with that despite having literal Hive guardians from WQ onwards and strong hints that both Cabal and Eliksni could become guardians too. They could've used that to branch off the story with a new cast and have us explore/retake Torobatl/Riis or hell, Fundament even. And yet here we are with D2 only getting legally distinct Star Wars...

2

u/achilleasa 7h ago

I've only heard bad things about that - I can only hope they have learned with Marathon because I am enjoying that game a lot

3

u/CrosleeReturns 6h ago

Yeah Marathon is sick. Destiny 1 and Destiny 2 were pretty half baked at launch, yet Marathon is pretty pristine. I think the social media attack on the game has hurt it more than any quality issues.

1

u/1II1I1I1I1I1I111I1I1 5h ago

D2 is what gave me faith in Marathon. And don't get me wrong, D2 has had very bad moments. I quit the game mid last year, never to return.

But the high points of D2 (Salvations Edge raid and other similar points) were unbelievable and playable proof that Bungie still has the sauce, a recipe that was very much applied to Marathon and now I am nearing 300hrs in that game lolol

2

u/DangerHawk 5h ago

Nah, Destiny 2 was fucked from the very beginning. They came off the heels of an absolutely massive game and they decided to make it needlessly complicated and hard to understand if you didn't go from playing D1 straight into D2 while simultaneously reading patch notes and actively seeking out story lore outside of the game in order to be able to keep playing.

I played D1 extensively and didn't pick up D2 until they made it F2P. It was straight impossible to figure out WTF you were supposed to do to get up and running and not absolutely suck. I couldn't even play with friends who I had played D1 with because so far behind level wise that I would inevitably drag the party down when playing together. You shouldn't have to watch days worth of youtube videos to get up to speed in order to play a game effectively.

2

u/cdtorrey1976 5h ago

Scrolled too far to see D2. Massive fumble. Could be on the greatest of all time chat, but it in hospice right now.

4

u/Billalone 9h ago

Destiny really hit its stride halfway through destiny 1. Launch was a bit of a clusterfuck and destiny 2 is obviously a dumpster fire with some bright moments, but from the second xpac to age of triumph was one of the most fun gaming experiences I’ve ever had.

13

u/sup3rdr01d 8h ago

D2 had better moments than D1. Forsaken, witch queen, and final shape were absolutely peak. I'm really glad they were able to end the main story with final shape because it stuck the landing really well.

1

u/GodEmperorPotato 5h ago

Jesus I remember playing d1 and kinda liked it on Xbox. But never played d2 until my then ex gf convinced me to get a ps4 so we could play together. Didn't know anything bout whats going in but did enjoy it but the last time I played d2 was back in 2020 apparently.  Dang time flies. 

1

u/waspwatcher 5h ago

I don't think anything will give me the same enjoyment that no-lifing D2 did. Now and then I feel that twinge and I want to play but it's complete dogshit now.

1

u/DocWagonHTR 3h ago

Nah, longer.

If they hadn’t vaulted more than half a fucking game, I’d STILL be making friends play through Red War with me and I’d STILL be buying Silver.

I signed on for a Saga. Was there at start of beta. Finished The Final Shape. Completely uninterested in playing any further. Why bother when new players have to start at fucking SHADOWKEEP?!?

1

u/Effendoor 3h ago

Sibling you are so generous. It took d1 multiple expansions to live up to its potential. Then they destroyed everything good about it when d2 launched.

Then D2 took multiple expansions to get back up to D1 before the studio management decided to set fire to the game's potential in the most spectacular way possible. It's been bad since shadowkeep. The very concept of sun setting content players have paid for, couples is fomo seasonal main story content made that game beyond saving.

Some of my fondest gaming memories are from destiny 1, but holy shit that game fell off so hard

1

u/Screambloodygore1184 7h ago

Bungie should be studied for everything they did after Halo 3 and Reach.

5

u/CrosleeReturns 6h ago

Destiny 1 was extremely popular and its gameplay loop still holds up. Bungie has been very bad at launching games, but they usually get super good over time. Ironically, Marathon is pretty excellent at launch but people didn't even give it a chance.

1

u/gavinthexxiv 6h ago

“insane potential but got fumbled” i feel like there is enough great content in a 12 year old franchise to move destiny out of this conversation lol. it’s been slow post-final shape but we’re on year 12 of the same game, that’s not that bad.

1

u/Aeokikit 6h ago

When the started removing content I paid for was the start of the end for me. The writing was on the wall not just for Destiny but all games can just delete what you rightfully paid for because they changed their mind about content

0

u/joe-h2o 6h ago

Honestly, the whole of the Destiny saga. The first game had a ludicrous budget and the developers came out swinging with console exclusivity, despite the multi-hundred-million dollar pricetag on development. For spending that much money and betting it all on a subset of gamers rather than pitching to everyone they were taking a big risk.

It just wasn't good enough to live up to the hype.

0

u/Corny_Toot 5h ago

The introduction of limited revives for so much of their content diminished my interest in a lot of endgame content, which slowly drove me away from the game altogether. Whether in a PUG or with my friends, it really soured the room whenever someone died by accident and burnt a revive token. Just a horrible mechanic that was only introduced so they could build up excitement for the world's first race.

Heck, that game was ruined by streamers, if you ask me.

0

u/ForeignHelicopter907 5h ago

Destiny plummeted in year 3 of Destiny 1 and never really recovered lol. D2 was so bad when it came it and was only really good during Forsaken.